H&R Hammerless revolver info wanted.

Old Gun Guy · 03-31-2009, 02:57 PM

I have these 3 H&R hammerless revolvers that I have questions about their years of manufacture. The top one is a .38 S&W large frame that is serial # 72404. It was very heavily rusted from laying in a damp place,(all 3 came from back on the Eastern seaboard) but I cleaned it up the best I could, and couldn't believe that it functions and locks up tight, and the bore looks like it's never been fired.
The middle revolver is another large frame with serial # 97465. It has British proof marks on the right side above the swivel pin. The marks are "crown over BV" and "Crown over RF". It wasn't rebored to a different caliber, so I'm wondering if they're just acceptance marks? It too functions beautifully.
The bottom revolver is a .32 S&W small frame with serial # 233616. It has some surface rust, but again it is ready to shoot.
Thanks!
Old Gun Guy
All serial #'s match on all three guns. Here are some pics:

b.goforth · 04-01-2009, 01:23 PM

here is what i furnished the blue book on the H&R hammerless models:

H&R HAMMERLESS FIRST MODEL LARGE FRAME TOP BREAK
(BLACK POWDER)-----------------------------------1899-1904
Large Frame Double Action Hammerless Top Break revolver with double top post barrel latch; caliber and cylinder capacity, 38 S&W (5 rounds); finish is nickel or blue (optional); grips are hard rubber with a target logo at the top; standard barrel length is 3 ¼ inch, with 4, 5 and 6 inch optiona; rebounding hammer; automatic cylinder stop. There are no known variations in this model. top of barrel is marked with the same 5 patent dates as the Auto-Ejector Second model 5th Variation, no caliber markings on left side of barrel.
Serial number range; approximately 01* to 45000* (No letter codes): Highest known 43308 (* Estimate)
NO CALIBER MARKINGON LEFT SIDE OF BARREL DESIGNED FOR BLACK POWDER CARTRIDGE PRESSURES ONLY
VALUE: 100%=$295 60%=$105 Add 10% premium for blue finish; 20% premium 4”, 5” or 6” barrel

H&R HAMMERLESS SECOND MODEL LARGE FRAME TOP BREAK
Smokeless powder------------------1905-1941
Large Frame Double Action Hammerless Top Break revolver with double top post barrel latch; caliber and cylinder capacity, 38 S&W (5 rounds); finish is nickel or blue (optional); grips are hard rubber with a target logo at the top; standard barrel length is 3 ¼ inch, with 4, 5 and 6 inch optional; rebounding hammer; automatic cylinder stop. The cylinder was lengthen to take the 32 S&W long cartridge and the catalogs now listed the calibers as; 6 shot 32 S&W, 32 S&W Long, 32 Colt New Police cartridges. Also offered in 5 shot 38 S&W and 38 Colt New Police. Caliber marked on left side of barrel THIS MODEL WAS DESIGNED FOR SMOKELESS POWDER CARTRIDGE PRESSURES
First variation, 5 patent dates same as First model with caliber marked on left side of barrel, serial number range 45000*-55000* (estimate)-1905-Only
Second Variation, patent dates,5-14 & 8-6-89,4-2-95, 4-7-96, serial number range; 55000*- 100000*(estimate)-----1906-1908
Third Variation, patent dates 8-6-1889, 10-8-1895, serial number range; 100000*-120000*(estimate)--1909-1912:
Fourth Variation, no patent dates, state in address not spelled out (MASS.), serial number range; 120000*-160000*(estimate)----------1913-1915
Fifth Variation, no patent dates state name in address is spelled out (MASSACHUETTS), serial number range; 160000*-190000*(estimate)-1916-1924
Sixth Variation , new grip frame same as Auto-Ejector, serial number range; unknown------------------------1925-1940
There is some indication production of the hammerless model stopped somewhere in the early 1920’s but it was carried in catalogs until 1941 Estimate*
After 1930 listed in Catalogs as: H&R HAMMERLESS No. 50 TOP BREAK .32 S&W LONG 6 shot and as H&R HAMMERLESS No. 55 TOP BREAK .38 S&W 5 shot
VALUE: 100%=$325 60%=$110 Add 10% premium for blue finish; 20% premium 4”, 5” or 6” barrel

H&R HAMMERLESS FIRST MODEL SMALL FRAME TOP BREAK
(BLACK POWDER)---------------------------------------------1899-1904
Small Frame Double Action Hammerless Top Break revolver with double top post barrel latch; caliber and cylinder capacity, 32 S&W (5 rounds), None of the catalogs I have seem indicates the First Model was offered in 22 rimfire; finish is nickel or blue (optional); grips are hard rubber with a target logo at the top; standard barrel length is 3 ¼ inch, with 4, 5 and 6 inch optional; rebounding hammer; automatic cylinder stop; no caliber markings on left side of barrel. NO CALIBER MARKING ON LEFT SIDE OF BARREL DESIGNED FOR BLACK POWDER CARTRIDGE PRESSURES
First Variation, patent dates 10-4-87, 4-2-95, 4-7-96, serial number range; 01*-82000*(Estimate)--------1899-1903
Second Variation, patent dates 5-14-89,4-2-95, 4-6-96, serial number range; 82000*-90000*(Estimate)-------1904-Only
VALUE: 100%=$255 60%=$95 Add 10% premium for blue finish; 20% premium 4”, 5” or 6” barrel

H&R HAMMERLESS SECOND MODEL SMALL FRAME TOP BREAK
(SMOKELESS POWDER)---------------------------------1905-1941
Small Frame Double Action Hammerless Top Break revolver with double top post barrel latch; caliber and cylinder capacity, 32 S&W (5 rounds), 22 Rimfire (7 rounds); finish is nickel or blue (optional); grips are hard rubber with a target logo at the top; standard barrel length is 3 ¼ inch, with 4, 5 and 6 inch optional; rebounding hammer; automatic cylinder stop, caliber marking on left side of barrel.
CALIBER MARKINGS ON LEFT SIDE OF BARREL DESIGNED FOR SMOKELESS POWDER CARTRIDGE PRESSURES ONLY
First Variation, patent dates 5-14-89, 4-2-95, 4-7-96, serial number range 90000*-100000* (estimate)---1905-1906
Second Variation, patent dates 4-2-95, 4-7-96 serial number range 100000*-120000* (estimate)-------1907-1909
Third Variation, patent date 10-8-95, serial number range 120000*-180000* (estimate)--1910-1913
Fourth Variation no patent dates small font use for company name. serial number range 180000*-190000*(estimate)--1914-only
Fifth variation, large font used in company name and state not spelled out (MASS), serial number range 190000*-200000* (estimate)----1915-only
Sixth Variation, state name in address spelled out (MASSACHUSETTS) serial number range 200000*-220000* (estimate)-1916-1924
Seventh Variation, new grip frame it is now same width as rest of frame no step down for grips, serial number range unknown------1925-1942
After 1930 listed in catalogs as: HAMMERLESS No. 40 TOP BREAK 22 Rimfire7 shot and as: HAMMERLESS No. 45 TOP BREAK 32 S&W 5 shot
VALUE: 100%=$265 60%=$75 Add 10% premium for blue finish; 20% premium 4”, 5” or 6” barrel; 20% premium for 22 rimfire caliber

the proof marks are no government so the one with them was most likely imported by a wholersaler for civilian use.

bill

Old Gun Guy · 04-01-2009, 04:32 PM

Bill,
Thank you for the information. I appreciate the efforts you put forth in these various gun forums. I have questions about my Iver Johnson revolvers, but as I stated in another post, I have your book coming any day that should contain the answers. On a related note, I ordered a new ratchet lever and spring for my H&R 732. I just couldn't get this one to work. I hope I have better luck with the new one.
Thanks again Bill!
Old Gun Guy

03-31-2009, 02:57 PM	#1
Old Gun Guy V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: N. Utah Contributor Posts: 488	H&R Hammerless revolver info wanted. I have these 3 H&R hammerless revolvers that I have questions about their years of manufacture. The top one is a .38 S&W large frame that is serial # 72404. It was very heavily rusted from laying in a damp place,(all 3 came from back on the Eastern seaboard) but I cleaned it up the best I could, and couldn't believe that it functions and locks up tight, and the bore looks like it's never been fired. The middle revolver is another large frame with serial # 97465. It has British proof marks on the right side above the swivel pin. The marks are "crown over BV" and "Crown over RF". It wasn't rebored to a different caliber, so I'm wondering if they're just acceptance marks? It too functions beautifully. The bottom revolver is a .32 S&W small frame with serial # 233616. It has some surface rust, but again it is ready to shoot. Thanks! Old Gun Guy All serial #'s match on all three guns. Here are some pics: --> Last edited by Old Gun Guy; 03-31-2009 at 02:58 PM..

04-01-2009, 01:23 PM	#2
b.goforth Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: houston, tx Posts: 3,174	Re: H&R Hammerless revolver info wanted. here is what i furnished the blue book on the H&R hammerless models: H&R HAMMERLESS FIRST MODEL LARGE FRAME TOP BREAK (BLACK POWDER)-----------------------------------1899-1904 Large Frame Double Action Hammerless Top Break revolver with double top post barrel latch; caliber and cylinder capacity, 38 S&W (5 rounds); finish is nickel or blue (optional); grips are hard rubber with a target logo at the top; standard barrel length is 3 ¼ inch, with 4, 5 and 6 inch optiona; rebounding hammer; automatic cylinder stop. There are no known variations in this model. top of barrel is marked with the same 5 patent dates as the Auto-Ejector Second model 5th Variation, no caliber markings on left side of barrel. Serial number range; approximately 01* to 45000* (No letter codes): Highest known 43308 (* Estimate) NO CALIBER MARKINGON LEFT SIDE OF BARREL DESIGNED FOR BLACK POWDER CARTRIDGE PRESSURES ONLY VALUE: 100%=$295 60%=$105 Add 10% premium for blue finish; 20% premium 4”, 5” or 6” barrel H&R HAMMERLESS SECOND MODEL LARGE FRAME TOP BREAK Smokeless powder------------------1905-1941 Large Frame Double Action Hammerless Top Break revolver with double top post barrel latch; caliber and cylinder capacity, 38 S&W (5 rounds); finish is nickel or blue (optional); grips are hard rubber with a target logo at the top; standard barrel length is 3 ¼ inch, with 4, 5 and 6 inch optional; rebounding hammer; automatic cylinder stop. The cylinder was lengthen to take the 32 S&W long cartridge and the catalogs now listed the calibers as; 6 shot 32 S&W, 32 S&W Long, 32 Colt New Police cartridges. Also offered in 5 shot 38 S&W and 38 Colt New Police. Caliber marked on left side of barrel THIS MODEL WAS DESIGNED FOR SMOKELESS POWDER CARTRIDGE PRESSURES First variation, 5 patent dates same as First model with caliber marked on left side of barrel, serial number range 45000-55000 (estimate)-1905-Only Second Variation, patent dates,5-14 & 8-6-89,4-2-95, 4-7-96, serial number range; 55000- 100000(estimate)-----1906-1908 Third Variation, patent dates 8-6-1889, 10-8-1895, serial number range; 100000-120000(estimate)--1909-1912: Fourth Variation, no patent dates, state in address not spelled out (MASS.), serial number range; 120000-160000(estimate)----------1913-1915 Fifth Variation, no patent dates state name in address is spelled out (MASSACHUETTS), serial number range; 160000-190000(estimate)-1916-1924 Sixth Variation , new grip frame same as Auto-Ejector, serial number range; unknown------------------------1925-1940 There is some indication production of the hammerless model stopped somewhere in the early 1920’s but it was carried in catalogs until 1941 Estimate* After 1930 listed in Catalogs as: H&R HAMMERLESS No. 50 TOP BREAK .32 S&W LONG 6 shot and as H&R HAMMERLESS No. 55 TOP BREAK .38 S&W 5 shot VALUE: 100%=$325 60%=$110 Add 10% premium for blue finish; 20% premium 4”, 5” or 6” barrel H&R HAMMERLESS FIRST MODEL SMALL FRAME TOP BREAK (BLACK POWDER)---------------------------------------------1899-1904 Small Frame Double Action Hammerless Top Break revolver with double top post barrel latch; caliber and cylinder capacity, 32 S&W (5 rounds), None of the catalogs I have seem indicates the First Model was offered in 22 rimfire; finish is nickel or blue (optional); grips are hard rubber with a target logo at the top; standard barrel length is 3 ¼ inch, with 4, 5 and 6 inch optional; rebounding hammer; automatic cylinder stop; no caliber markings on left side of barrel. NO CALIBER MARKING ON LEFT SIDE OF BARREL DESIGNED FOR BLACK POWDER CARTRIDGE PRESSURES First Variation, patent dates 10-4-87, 4-2-95, 4-7-96, serial number range; 01-82000(Estimate)--------1899-1903 Second Variation, patent dates 5-14-89,4-2-95, 4-6-96, serial number range; 82000-90000(Estimate)-------1904-Only VALUE: 100%=$255 60%=$95 Add 10% premium for blue finish; 20% premium 4”, 5” or 6” barrel H&R HAMMERLESS SECOND MODEL SMALL FRAME TOP BREAK (SMOKELESS POWDER)---------------------------------1905-1941 Small Frame Double Action Hammerless Top Break revolver with double top post barrel latch; caliber and cylinder capacity, 32 S&W (5 rounds), 22 Rimfire (7 rounds); finish is nickel or blue (optional); grips are hard rubber with a target logo at the top; standard barrel length is 3 ¼ inch, with 4, 5 and 6 inch optional; rebounding hammer; automatic cylinder stop, caliber marking on left side of barrel. CALIBER MARKINGS ON LEFT SIDE OF BARREL DESIGNED FOR SMOKELESS POWDER CARTRIDGE PRESSURES ONLY First Variation, patent dates 5-14-89, 4-2-95, 4-7-96, serial number range 90000-100000 (estimate)---1905-1906 Second Variation, patent dates 4-2-95, 4-7-96 serial number range 100000-120000 (estimate)-------1907-1909 Third Variation, patent date 10-8-95, serial number range 120000-180000 (estimate)--1910-1913 Fourth Variation no patent dates small font use for company name. serial number range 180000-190000(estimate)--1914-only Fifth variation, large font used in company name and state not spelled out (MASS), serial number range 190000-200000 (estimate)----1915-only Sixth Variation, state name in address spelled out (MASSACHUSETTS) serial number range 200000-220000 (estimate)-1916-1924 Seventh Variation, new grip frame it is now same width as rest of frame no step down for grips, serial number range unknown------1925-1942 After 1930 listed in catalogs as: HAMMERLESS No. 40 TOP BREAK 22 Rimfire7 shot and as: HAMMERLESS No. 45 TOP BREAK 32 S&W 5 shot VALUE: 100%=$265 60%=$75 Add 10% premium for blue finish; 20% premium 4”, 5” or 6” barrel; 20% premium for 22 rimfire caliber the proof marks are no government so the one with them was most likely imported by a wholersaler for civilian use. bill __________________ Author: Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle Works 1871-1993 H&R Arms Company 1871-1986 (due spring 2010) available from www.gunshowbooks.com website; iverjohnsoncollector.x10hosting.com

04-01-2009, 04:32 PM	#3
Old Gun Guy V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: N. Utah Contributor Posts: 488	Re: H&R Hammerless revolver info wanted. Bill, Thank you for the information. I appreciate the efforts you put forth in these various gun forums. I have questions about my Iver Johnson revolvers, but as I stated in another post, I have your book coming any day that should contain the answers. On a related note, I ordered a new ratchet lever and spring for my H&R 732. I just couldn't get this one to work. I hope I have better luck with the new one. Thanks again Bill! Old Gun Guy