Survival Gear

[carver]

Originally Posted by questor

11B here. If center/rim fire, cut off lead as close to cartridge as possible. Have tinder ready, load into weapon, point into tinder and pull the trigger. Presto fire is blazing!

I always carry a 2 3/4" 12ga shell loaded with just power, great fire starter.

questor, don't know if you have tried this yet, or not, but I wouldn't be in a big hurry to try it! I don't think it's a good idea, but that's just me. In my humble opinion, maybe take the powder out of the shell, place it into the tender pile, and strike a spark into it, or a match. Fireing a live round into anything at close range could very well spoil your day, or maybe even your next couple of months, and cutting away part of the bullet still leaves you with a live round! I have seen a primer alone (no powder, no bullet), blow a hole thru both sides of a large open papper bag, fired from a .44 mag pistol. Imagine what a live round will do! The powder charge alone should blow your tender over a rather large area. If you get a fire, you might not like the size of it! Everyone, please be safe! Again, this is just my opinion!

[TranterUK]

Now theres an idea for the ammo manufactures, specific fire starting cartridges for survival use.

[delta13soultaker]

I played with using ammo to start an emergency fire a long time ago. Here's what I decided:

Even just a primer in a case will blow tender/powder everywhere. It snuffs out the fire before it can start.

Stuffing tissue paper into a primered case with a bit of powder ignites the paper but blows the tender everywhere, once again, snuffs it out.

Dumping the powder under tender and igniting with a match can work. However, the powder burns so fast, and is not extremely hot; it is not as good at igniting wet tender as things like wax + sawdust, pine pitch, or magnesium.

Powder is very vulnerable to moisture. In damp conditions it may not work at all, while other methods aren't effected at all even if wet.

Cutting open a shotgun shell is relatively easy under any condition. However, if all you're carrying is rifle or pistol it gets difficult even in ideal conditions. Getting a rifle cartridge open while you're freezing, fingers numb, shivering, in darkness etc may be impossible. (You don't need a knife and Leatherman to use pine pitch or magnesium.)

In the bad conditions where you really need fire, I think gunpowder would fall short and fail. It burns too quick. It isn't hot enough for long enough to ignite damp material. You must take extreme precaution to keep it dry up intil the moment it ignites.

* I never considered firing part of the projectile into the tender. I'm going to have to say maybe not a good idea; wouldn't want to do that.

**You could fire a tracer into tender. But you'd ricochet 20 out before one stayed. And they will not ignite wet material...just sizzle.

***You could use a Dragon's Breath shotgun shell but there are many things wrong with the idea. 1. You may be carrying a rifle. 2. You may likely create an out of control fire. 3. The ammo is not legal everywhere (see #2) 4. Shooting it in a semi-auto may ignite the man holding the shotgun. 5. There is risk if it backfiring if pointed at close objects. Once again, it is not a good idea. A good reloader with some pyro/EOD background could probably make a custom cartridge with more tame characteristics for this purpose, but A. It's still a bad idea. B. It would be misused if it became widely available.

(Tranter, I'd retain about 3 lawyers before I sold specific fire starting cartridges for survival use. It wouldn't be long before someone realized it could defeat soft body-armor in a terrible way.)

My advice is to prepare other better means to start fire and have them on hand. These materials are cheap, lightweight, and resist moisture.

If you're worried that a wax/sawdust bar won't burn hot enough for you, grind up your magnesium and mix that into your compound. Don't have magnesium, then grind up aluminum into fine powder and put that in it. (Aluminum powder + iron rust is a thermite grenade.) Pine resin burns long and hot just as nature made it. You could mix it or use as is. These things can be ignited by a wax coated strike-anywhere match carried in the same container.

[carver]

"You could use a Dragon's Breath shotgun shell but there are many things wrong with the idea".

No joke here!! I have fired them down the road that I live on, and at night! Only once, these things are awsome! Took me almost 5 min to get my night sight back to where I could see how to get back up the driveway!

[TOOHSOTKIL]

Survival is something that has become so bent, it is not even real any more.
And in reality less than a week at best, unless you pulled a bad turn over unknown airspace.

Sharp quality knife and if you have laces, you can survive.

[38 special]

Originally Posted by 308 at my gate

My question for all you hunters and outdoors men is what do you carry with you in case of being stuck in the mountains due to circumstances you may not have anticipated. I was out a couple of years ago with my brother in-law in Wyoming in one of the wilderness areas on foot. He had a GPS and after stomping around in the woods for about 8 hours we got separated and I did not see him again. If it were not for the fact I took a compass and took some readings as we went in I would have been completely lost. I also did not have any survival equipment with me at the time. So I am now putting a kit together and was wondering what you guys take to the woods?

waterproof matches in a waterproof little case i can stick in my shirt pocket

[Big ugly]

I got water tablets and a side arm usually my old 32, a big knife and a picture of my ex-wife's mother. I keep two short rolls of leather for my legs cuz it never fails, I always run into those snakes with the kids toys attached to their A**es. Matches and bug spray.

[308 at my gate]

Originally Posted by TOOHSOTKIL

Survival is something that has become so bent, it is not even real any more.
And in reality less than a week at best, unless you pulled a bad turn over unknown airspace.

Sharp quality knife and if you have laces, you can survive.

I think the idea here is to be prepared so survival not something that is going to be so difficult that I do not know if I will make or not. For me a just a sharp knife and shoe laces is not going to get me by.

[308 at my gate]

Yes 38 special water proof matches is something I have already picked up.

[Powderhorn]

Took me a while to find this, because I saw it last year or so. Might work if you held the tinder in your hand like this guy does with the cig.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOAJYz4Jp_M

[308 at my gate]

Originally Posted by Powderhorn

Took me a while to find this, because I saw it last year or so. Might work if you held the tinder in your hand like this guy does with the cig.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOAJYz4Jp_M

I don't think that shooting into the ground when your up in the mountains and there is snow on the ground with the wind blowing, will light my fire.

[Powderhorn]

Originally Posted by 308 at my gate

I don't think that shooting into the ground when your up in the mountains and there is snow on the ground with the wind blowing, will light my fire.

Well that certainly does present the caveat to this method, huh?

I bet that firing a round into dry forest duff from that short distance would actually ignite it maybe with only a few short puffs of air. Just don't shoot it into a mud puddle!

By the way, the original (at least he's the oldest one I know of) survivalist, Bradford Angier, advocated removing the shot from a shotgun shell and leaving the wad. Stuff a piece of dry cloth, or hopefully - charred cloth, into the shell. Fire into the air, and retrieve the now-smoldering cloth. I think this would work, not having tried it myself.

Still, I think that TOOHSOTKIL has a good point. Going minimalist will get you a long way. Way too many people rely on technology rather than skills. Learning the primitive skills of firemaking, bowmaking, and primitive hunting and fieldcraft woudl be the best tools to take with you.

[308 at my gate]

Originally Posted by Powderhorn

Well that certainly does present the caveat to this method, huh?

I bet that firing a round into dry forest duff from that short distance would actually ignite it maybe with only a few short puffs of air. Just don't shoot it into a mud puddle!

By the way, the original (at least he's the oldest one I know of) survivalist, Bradford Angier, advocated removing the shot from a shotgun shell and leaving the wad. Stuff a piece of dry cloth, or hopefully - charred cloth, into the shell. Fire into the air, and retrieve the now-smoldering cloth. I think this would work, not having tried it myself.

Still, I think that TOOHSOTKIL has a good point. Going minimalist will get you a long way. Way too many people rely on technology rather than skills. Learning the primitive skills of firemaking, bowmaking, and primitive hunting and fieldcraft woudl be the best tools to take with you.

I agree with you, that the more you know the better off you will be. But I would like to have 3 different ways of lighting a fire. Like water proof matches, a bic lighter, and magnesium and flint. All very small and light. I also want something to boil water in because it is the next most important thing. When I am in the woods in Wyoming it is a given that I will always have a knife and a gun. There are just to many wild things there that could make you part of their lunch. I bought a gps last year and used it the last time I went out in conjuction with a compass. Being prepared I believe is the key and I am not looking to rough it any more than I have to. So far there have been some very good suggestions and I look and consider them all.

[delta13soultaker]

Originally Posted by Powderhorn

Still, I think that TOOHSOTKIL has a good point. Going minimalist will get you a long way. Way too many people rely on technology rather than skills. Learning the primitive skills of firemaking, bowmaking, and primitive hunting and fieldcraft woudl be the best tools to take with you.

This cuts both ways.

True: Rarely is there justification to pack enough gadgets to start civilization over again. Almost anywhere in the mainland US, you can probably expect rescue in 1-5 days and for most people 2 at most.

False: If you expect to build a bow-drill or anything primitive in an emergency, you're fairly misguided. If you honestly believe your boot laces are going to help you stay warm and dry all night, you've never been caught in a sleet storm. Most true survival situations are "come as you are".

[308 at my gate]

Originally Posted by delta13soultaker

This cuts both ways.

True: Rarely is there justification to pack enough gadgets to start civilization over again. Almost anywhere in the mainland US, you can probably expect rescue in 1-5 days and for most people 2 at most.

False: If you expect to build a bow-drill or anything primitive in an emergency, you're fairly misguided. If you honestly believe your boot laces are going to help you stay warm and dry all night, you've never been caught in a sleet storm. Most true survival situations are "come as you are".

It is very true that rescue in this country is probably 1-5 days. The rule of 3 is, 3 hours exposure your dead. 3 days without water your dead. 3 weeks without food your dead. So my primary goal is to have a way for shelter, fire. and pure water. That is all, and that is not starting civilization over again, but I will be alive when found by a rescue team. There are hunters and hikers that get lost every year and die.

[Powderhorn]

Originally Posted by 308 at my gate

So my primary goal is to have a way for shelter, fire. and pure water. That is all, and that is not starting civilization over again, but I will be alive when found by a rescue team. There are hunters and hikers that get lost every year and die.

Agreed. I think finding a happy medium is the key. Take enough with you to be safe - end of story.

Funny you should mention the hunters and hikers getting lost and killed. Many of them are well-seasoned, hardy individuals and they still get lost and confused, so it can happen to anyone. One instance always comes to mind was when I helped search for a lost hunter. He'd been in the woods for two days, and simply could not find his way out. He ignored the advice of NH Fish and Game to hunker down and build a fire, and help would arrive, instead thinking he could find his way out.

I brought my dog and joined the search team, and before we could even get into the woods, the game warden walked out with the guy by his side. When the hunter was being attended by the EMTs, the warden said he was crying like a baby. The warden said he was 300' from the road, sitting on a rock, and crying his eyes out - wailing, as in really crying hard.

The hunter was at least 6'6" and a big burly lumberjack-looking guy.

So I guess it does not matter how big and strong you are. Survival is a matter of being smart - being prepared.

[carver]

Here again I think we have a situation that is really, really, broad. As delta13, and 308 state, you probably won't be out there long enough to set up a trap line, dig a well, or build permanant shelter (just being facetious). However, how prepaired are we? What if we have all the things we have mentioned up to this point, and we through in something that occures all the time. We hear stories about this all the time. What if we are injured, broke bones, bitten, clawed, to the point that we can not move to a better place than where we are at that time? Now do we add something to our little survival pack that we haven't thought of yet?

[38 special]

I picked up these plastic water bottles with special filter. According to the demonstrator, you can dip the bottle in a nasty old muddy stream or even pee in the bottle and when you squeeze the fluid out thru the filter the water is perfectly good to drink. I saw him actually put filthy water in the bottle and then squeeae it out and drink it. They apparently take alot of these to the red cross to be used at flooded towns etc. I did buy a couple of the small bottles they were about 25$ each They would definitely be a great survival item.they are as small as a12 ounce soda bottleso youcould carry pretty easy

[38 special]

Originally Posted by TOOHSOTKIL

Survival is something that has become so bent, it is not even real any more.
And in reality less than a week at best, unless you pulled a bad turn over unknown airspace.

Sharp quality knife and if you have laces, you can survive.

Yes it is Depressing that there are very few places leftthat you can get lost for a long time. There arent many large tracts of contiguous wilderness left it just keeps getting chopped up. the one (and maybe only) socialistic type effort that I agree with is the protection from development of state game lands,state forest lands national forest lands ,conservation land .without these the whole country I'm afraid would be one huge eyesore of commercial and residential crap.Thanks to Teddy Rosevelt and others that had brains enough to see the value of wild places we still have some places where you can get lost -Thank God

[TranterUK]

Originally Posted by 308 at my gate

The rule of 3 is, 3 hours exposure your dead. 3 days without water your dead. 3 weeks without food your dead.

I was taught the rule of three, but it started with 3 minutes without air, 3 days without water. 3 weeks without food.

Fire wise I carry flint and steel. Short of that, rub two boy scouts together.

[TranterUK]

Originally Posted by 38 special

Yes it is Depressing that there are very few places leftthat you can get lost for a long time.

Never been to London then?

[308 at my gate]

Originally Posted by Powderhorn

Agreed. I think finding a happy medium is the key. Take enough with you to be safe - end of story.

Funny you should mention the hunters and hikers getting lost and killed. Many of them are well-seasoned, hardy individuals and they still get lost and confused, so it can happen to anyone. One instance always comes to mind was when I helped search for a lost hunter. He'd been in the woods for two days, and simply could not find his way out. He ignored the advice of NH Fish and Game to hunker down and build a fire, and help would arrive, instead thinking he could find his way out.

I brought my dog and joined the search team, and before we could even get into the woods, the game warden walked out with the guy by his side. When the hunter was being attended by the EMTs, the warden said he was crying like a baby. The warden said he was 300' from the road, sitting on a rock, and crying his eyes out - wailing, as in really crying hard.

The hunter was at least 6'6" and a big burly lumberjack-looking guy.

So I guess it does not matter how big and strong you are. Survival is a matter of being smart - being prepared.

Good story. Do you get called upon very often to help with search and rescue with lost individuals?

[308 at my gate]

Originally Posted by TranterUK

Fire wise I carry flint and steel. Short of that, rub two boy scouts together.

I think I will have to pass on the boy scouts.

[308 at my gate]

Originally Posted by carver

Here again I think we have a situation that is really, really, broad. As delta13, and 308 state, you probably won't be out there long enough to set up a trap line, dig a well, or build permanant shelter (just being facetious). However, how prepaired are we? What if we have all the things we have mentioned up to this point, and we through in something that occures all the time. We hear stories about this all the time. What if we are injured, broke bones, bitten, clawed, to the point that we can not move to a better place than where we are at that time? Now do we add something to our little survival pack that we haven't thought of yet?

That indeed does change things. In my mind all the more important to have ways for making a shelter, building a fire for warmth and signaling. I would imagine in a case like this the sooner your found the better. So I guess a first aid kit would be in order to carry along, which I do have as part of my survival kit.

[45nut]

I still highly recommend the pocket survival kit. My 3 kits are used for different situations.

Good suggestions all. As to training being key, the time to practice survival skills is when you are in your own backyard. You need to practice with your flint & steel, magnesium lighter, with anything you plan on using in a survival situation. Make sure your kit has something to make a bowl out of and some basic first aid materials. My large BPS first aid kit has everything but splints and only weighs 1.2 lbs. I added Pepto Bismal tablets and two ace bandages and some forceps plus more advil & tylenol.