zastava m57/ tokarev 7.62x25

[waynescyclegarage]

CLICHE, Tack driver? Off topic but I think I have been using the "tack driver" a bit much. I promise to try to not call every gun I have that shoots half ass decent a "tack driver"
But I am still excited about my new old Tokarev, I said it was hitting within a 3 to 4" circle at about 20 feet. I was wrong, I measured it when I came in and it was a 2 1/4" circle.
wayne

[polishshooter]

I have a gun show coming up in a few weeks where I am going to try and find some of the Privi Partisan ammo for mine...Privi is a MAJOR manufacturer in the former Yugo republic and actually manufactures most of the "Wolf Gold" ammo that everybody raves about for commie as well as US guns...plus was the manufacturer that made ALL the military loads for the M57...

I have had GREAT results from Privi 7.62x54 ammo for my Mosins...better than the S&B/Winchester factory loads so I am kinda hoping for the same results from my M 57...before I sell or trade it...

But I get GREAT results from my S&B Makarov ammo through my Baikal, they are decent too...so much so that the "Winchester" 7.62x54 ammo you see for sale is actually EXACTLY the same S&B smmo just for $1-$2 more per box for the Winchester name.... Check it out...EVERY box of Winchester 7.62 x54 ammo says "Made in Czeckoslovakia..." It's all made by S&B...

[polishshooter]

BTW, "Tack Driver" is a relative term...Every ROUND is a potential 'Tack Driver" if you hold the muzzle directly over the TACK!

THe difference is at what range you can HIT that "Tack."

Yeah, it is a cliche, even my Swift at 100yds MIGHT hit the tack 1 or 2 times out of 5 shots, but we all need SOME type of description, right?

Let's use a standard definition...I HAVE seen for example guys shoot 2" groups with their custon IPSC .45 auto standing with a basic isocelese grip at 25 yds..THAT is a ":Tack Driver...." (no matter that with the SAME gun I shot 5" groups....)

Yeah from a rest the gun will give the most ACCURATE example of what the GUN is CAPABLE of...

But the only thing you can compare it to is how it shoots at the EXACT same range with the EXACT same way YOU shoot other handguns....

At 10 yds if I can maintain a good grip, sight picture and SQUEEZE not jerk it I KNOW I can keep my .45, which I built, and while I know is NOT as good as other "custom" guns are, but which I have shot probably more than 150,000 rounds through since 1984, into about 3-4" rapid fire....so that is what I compare all my other handguns to...

The key is "rapid fire," I found that I could shoot some NICE groups with various target .22 guns in slow/rapid fire matches, but it wouldn't be much use in "real life" situations..I measure EVERY handgun in "rapid fire" groups...how fast cn you aquire the front sight and sqeeze again..

Now as to my 1895 NAgant...maybe I need to buy some of the expensive Fiocchi ammo for it...but with my Target Nagant Ammo I MIgHT get 4-5 " with it. but I shoot a lot of cheap Aquila .32 S&W Long through it, and I am PLEASED with 10-12" rapid fire with it at 10 yds.... (funny that when I am on my computer at home that is the CLOSEST handgun available to me in the drawer of my loading bench, loaded with .32 S&W long, so it is amazing that when I am at home, the gun with the most chance of being grabbed in a defensive situation compared with the time I spend anywhere else in my house just MIGHT be that darn Nagant....but I WOULD use it..)

(If the "situation" happens when I am in BED the perp will face either my Makarov which is more accurate or my .45 which I have much more experience with depending which one my hand touches FIRST...) (but then again, the M57 is there too now, Hmmm..

At $8.95/50 for the Aquila vs $32.99/50 for real Fiocchi Nagant ammo I can live with that...and yeah, it is one of my FAVORITE handguns even at that...

I meaure everything with what I can do with my .45 at 10 yds..I competed ISPC with it and have shot somewhere between 150-200000 rounds througn it, of course on my 3rd or 4th barrel, and maybe my 4th or 5th trigger job...it rattles like a buzz bait, but I KNOW I can empty the magazine in maybe 2-3 seconds from a draw into 3-4 inches at 10 yds...

THAT is my reference...

I KNOW many shooters can do better...Hell, I never made it better than "B" Class in IPSC... But they are using $2000 custom guns when I built mine for a LOT less

But there it is, in MY book, you can keep EVERY round from ANY handgun into 3-4 inches at 10 yds RAPID fire, as fast as you can reaquire the front sight ....you have a "Tack driver..."

[polishshooter]

Ande as for measuring groups, you measure from the CENTER of the farther hole to the CENTER of the farthest hole from IT......many guys who claim "Niickle" or "Dime SIzed" groups are cheating themselves, by half the size of their bullets....

[waynescyclegarage]

I have some of the winchester 7.62 54r for my 91/30 and it IS made in Czeckoslovakia. I would be interested in some of the Privi and some Makarov for my CZ82. I have been shooting anything I could find in the CZ but after this experience with the Tokarev I would like to try some better ammo. Don't give up on the M57 yet till you try some other stuff. It was night and day for mine. No gun show coming up around here that I know of so if you get some extra Privi. save me a box I am not familiar with the Baikal but It sounds interesting. I will have to hit Wikipedia.
wayne

[waynescyclegarage]

Great info, I am getting re-educated. I really don't give a damn about bench shooting except just to see what the gun can do, I like you only care about what I can do in the situation we don't want to encounter. My Tok now shares a spot with my CZ and Ruger close by and I feel confident which ever one I get hold of when needed. Time for beddy bye if I can get my two boys to quit wrestling and go to sleep too.
Thanks again

[waynescyclegarage]

I removed this post

[waynescyclegarage]

I have gotten way off topic, back to Tokarev. What is the ring on the bottom of my magazines? It looks like a lanyard ring but it seems like the wrong place for a lanyard and the pistol has its own ring. I assume the magazine base plate is non removable so no repairs could be made but then what can go wrong.
Off topic again for Polishshooter, I have never shot the 32 long in my Nagant, I have been getting the real stuff from JG sales made by Hot Shot made in Serbia. 98 grain, I have no info on the ballistics ( muzzle velocoty etc ) but it shoots well.
The M57 is growing on me every day, no FTE no jams and consistant groups. I am going to see if I can hit anything at some more distant targets.
wayne

[polishshooter]

I will have to try that Hot shot stuff for my Nagant, but the only thing that was available for it when I first got mine was the Fiocchi for like $35/50, and when I had somebody else tell me they shot both the .32 S&W Long and .32 HR Magnum through theirs, I decided to try the .32 Long, especially when I found a couple of boxes of Aquila .32 Long RNL for like $8.95/50...

I was a little scared of shooting .32 HR Mag through it, that seemed to be pushing it, but the .32 Long shoots through it with no problem, except of course if bulged cases and 6-8" groups at 10 yds you consider a "problem"

I kinda expected some cheap milsurp nagant ammo to find it's way to the market, they made TONS of it, but so far all I have seen in any quantity was that reduced load target lead wadcutter stuff for like $15/40...I still have some left for it, but am saving it.

[waynescyclegarage]

Hi, Polish shooter and others, I just ordered another M57 for my bestest friend. He liked mine a lot. I am learning to shoot it a little better but I need some more ammo. I have ordered some Privi Partison for like $16 per 50 but where can I get some reloads maybe?
I think someone mentioned Sierra? How bout some web sites. I have seen some Polish stuff for 70 rounds less than $10 but everyone is out of stock. Hope this hasn't dried up.Saw some Nagant for about $22 for 50, forgot the brand, maybe it was Privi. I will go back and see but I think it was from AIM.
The Tok is getting to be one of my favorites. I hope the one I ordered is as nice as the first one I got from SOG.
wayne

[Bigbill]

I have collected a few tokarev's from most of the countries who manufactured them. I've been told in the past the tokarev in 7,62x25 is a very flat shooting round and accurate out to 100yds too. I regret not shooting any of them yet but i hope its true what they say about them. Reeds ammo offers the tokarev rounds in different loadings. This is one little speedy round and i also heard rumors it goes thru most bullet proof vests too. My last tok purchase is the M57. Bill

[waynescyclegarage]

Would that be Reedsammo.com? II have some Privi on the way for $15.95 per 50 but the shipping really adds to the cost.There is an Acadamy Sporting goods locally here but I have never been in. My brother in law bought some 9x18 Makorov ammo there so maybe they will have some Tok. Bill get out and shoot the M57 and let us know how it goes.
wayne

[waynescyclegarage]

Got another M57 from SOG hand pick. Looks great has 6 digit serial and is not quite as well machined as my 4 digit gun. Slugged at .311 but shoots as well or better than my
.309 Has nice holster in dark leather but it is not as thick as my lighter leather and doesn't seem to be as well seamed.
wayne

[Thatonegunguy]

I personally love this gun. But it is true that they were originally made without a factory safety.

[waynescyclegarage]

When I retrieve my brass the primer has the center punch from the firing pin but also has a little nick beside the indentation. Is this when the brass is ejecting and hanging up on the firing pin? Both Toks do this and I have never seen this on other fire arms.\
wayne

[woolleyworm]

Originally Posted by waynescyclegarage

When I retrieve my brass the primer has the center punch from the firing pin but also has a little nick beside the indentation. Is this when the brass is ejecting and hanging up on the firing pin? Both Toks do this and I have never seen this on other fire arms.\
wayne

Firing pin is not completely retracted before the gun starts to unlock; as the rear of the barrel is dropping the pin is still in contact with the primer causing the mark.

Check/replace your firing pin spring and make sure there isn't anything that is fouling it, thus causing it to act slower. It could possibly be the recoil spring adding to it; but all in all, unless it's a deep mark or puncturing the primer cup, I wouldn't worry about it too much. I've seen it on several different semi-autos, both newer and older.

I'm 99.99% certain of the mark that you're talking about, but if you have any pics, it may help others to see exactly what you're describing.

Woolley

[waynescyclegarage]

I am almost certain what you described is exactly what is happenning but when both Toks did the same thing I assumed it was a characteristic of these guns. I don't have a Photo bucket account set up to send pics ( is that not how it is done). I could email someone pics and they could post them but that is a bit much to ask.
I doubt if it will be a problem but I was a little concerned that it could stress the firing pin.
thanks, wayne

[woolleyworm]

Originally Posted by waynescyclegarage

I am almost certain what you described is exactly what is happenning but when both Toks did the same thing I assumed it was a characteristic of these guns. I don't have a Photo bucket account set up to send pics ( is that not how it is done). I could email someone pics and they could post them but that is a bit much to ask.
I doubt if it will be a problem but I was a little concerned that it could stress the firing pin.
thanks, wayne

feel free to shoot me an email with the pics.
I highly doubt that you'll damage the firing pin, the cup is much softer than the pin and it's not an uncommon occurance; I see it on my 45acp with heavier loads from time to time.

[waynescyclegarage]

Thanks Wolleyworm, unless you would like to see them I won't bother with pics as you have answered the question and confirmed my diagnosis.
BUT!!! I had my first malfunction with the Tok. The slide locked open with one round left in the mag. No big deal and I think it is a mag problem but I have not had the time to check it out. When I got the gun one of the mag's was bent a little at the top and I half ass straightened it. I don't know which mag it was but I am going to mark them and see if it happens again with the same one. But if you guys know of this and already have a solution that would be easier.
The more I shoot the M57 the better I like it! It seems that the farther I get from my target the better my groups!! I just got some PPU ammo, ( looks the same as my SB) and that was what I was using.
later
wayne

[waynescyclegarage]

I was looking on Reeds Ammo site and they have some interesting loads in the 7.62x25. I kinda was leaning toward the 1700 FPS stuff. I also noticed that their hottest loads said for CZ52 only! Like 2000 FPS. Does this mean that the CZ is built to withstand higher pressures? I had seen some other sites that said just the opposite? They had pics of blown up CZ52's but just because it is on the web doesn't mean it is accurate....
Anyway I am getting within a 4" circle at about 16 paces and this seemed good to me (amateur).
wayne

[john_bud]

Originally Posted by waynescyclegarage

Anyway I am getting within a 4" circle at about 16 paces and this seemed good to me (amateur).
wayne

I was shooting one and it was hitting so well that I aimed at an 8" rock about 75 yards away and turned it to dust with one shot. I really like the Toks.

[BONASABOB]

$199.95 BECAME $205.95 when you used a credit card(+3%.) Fortunately there are guys like Mitja that know what they are talking about. Too bad we have to wade thru all the nuckleheads to find him. Where can I make bulk purchase of mil-surp 7.62x25 ammo? Prefer Polish but any source will do.

[cappaletti]

it's getting REAL hard to find!!! I just got 100 rds from buymilsurp.com ($35.00)..that's one of the few places u can find it..J&G has S&B..but it's a little pricey!

[waynescyclegarage]

Originally Posted by Thatonegunguy

I personally love this gun. But it is true that they were originally made without a factory safety.

I understand that they were originaly made without a safety, BUT the safety on my gun is factory installed and not added by some importer. It works great, looks right and I like having it as it adds to the enjoyment and safe use of this fine pistol.
wayne

[waynescyclegarage]

I am really getting ataached to this Tok. I recieved my Privi PU ammo and it seems like a hot round and I am getting 1 3/8" groups at about 30ft sitting in my lawn chair. This is wonderful as I was ready to chunk this shootin' iron in the trash after my first test fire with some Romanian ammo that split cases and could not hold a 20" group.
Polish shooter, have you tried this Privi ammo yet? I was looking at Reeds ammo and they have some expensive stuff 1700 FPS that I am thinking about trying.
I noticed they had some 2000 FPS stuff for CZ82 only? This implies to me that the CZ is stronger than the Tok but some other sites say just the opposite!! WTF
having fun with my new favorite pistol
wayne