Self defense - The Firearms Forum

ineedsoap16 · 04-25-2009, 08:33 PM

my dad lives in the same neighborhood as me and had his truck broken into the other day. We have two other breakins in the last month.. i have lived here for 6 years with no record like this. When I spoke with my father the other day he made a mention of "If someone does break in here they will be dead before the cops get here" no storry... Any thought on live daed with a story for the cops. I have hear of good people defendeing their homes against bg's and getting sued because their persuer lived and testified. I am not looking for a should I'll kill somebody thread, but any thoughts?

obxned · 04-25-2009, 11:59 PM

In most states, you can't shoot to prevent property crimes outside of your home. Even 'citizen arrerst' is iffy in many places. It may not be right or moral, but the law is the law. Violate the law and you will have peoblems!

carver · 04-26-2009, 09:42 AM

I don't know the laws of the state you live in, but here in TX we may shoot the burglar. If I am in the home, and he, or they, come into my home, I will shoot. If they are headed out across the yard with an arm load of my stuff, TX law says I can still protect my property, but I draw the line here! You see, I don't really want to shoot anyone, but I will. I personally believe that this BG's life is worth more than my big screen TV, and then there is the issue his immortal soul! I would rather win him to Christ, than send him to hell! However, that will in no way, prevent me from ending his life to protect mine, or my family!

Tom Militano · 04-26-2009, 05:03 PM

Anybody that tries to rob something from my house is going to get shot. Period. I don't care if he goes to heaven or hell, but he's going to one or the other.

ineedsoap16 · 04-26-2009, 06:01 PM

Good replies. I feel much the same way as you all.. If I am losing a car stereo it is not woth a life, but when my family or I am in danger anything goes.

TxIronWolf · 04-26-2009, 11:37 PM

If the BG get away with your stuff becuse you didn't do something, and the next night they kill someone else how will that one be settled? As for me I work way to hard to let some punk walk off with my things. As far as what thier life is worth....They are the ones making that call when they went to take my stuff.

oscarmayer · 04-27-2009, 09:28 AM

except in the state of texas where you can shoot someone that has just broke into your neighbors home the laws very from state to state. and even if no charges are filed against you be ready to face civil action. countless bg's have sued and won now sure shoot to kill and no lawsuit right ? wrong.... momma or some shoe string relation will attempt to sue. anyone that has a gun and thinks that they may someday need it to defend their home i suggest getting the book "in the gravest extreme". it's a eye opener there are countless examples of people who's lives were ruined because they used deadly force to protect their property or their loved ones.

Tom Militano · 04-27-2009, 11:03 AM

We have the Castle Law in Alabama. So leave my stuff alone.

army mp · 04-27-2009, 11:20 AM

Your best bet would be to go to NRA online they list all state laws by state. every state is different,
Also I would be careful making bold statements in forms. A few years back a New Jersey cop made some statements in a chat room that came back to haunt him in a latter court date. At best a legal shoot. Will be costly as well as A night in jail. That said your life is worth more than a few bucks and a night in jail.

Tom Militano · 04-27-2009, 03:02 PM

We have a restraining order against a couple of people. Of course one of them is in jail at the moment. My wife got a five year restraining order, his ex wife got a 20 year, yeah a TWENTY year, and his mother had a five year order against him before she died. Neither one of the sorry sob's have even sent me a Christmas Card. My feelings are hurt.

BillP · 04-27-2009, 04:40 PM

Making up your mind ahead of time that you intend to kill anyone who breaks into your house is not something you as a reasonable person want to do. Making such a statement in public is not in your best interest either. Don't get me wrong I am willing to use deadly force to protect myself or my family but I would rather not have to and intend to keep my options open.

Entirely too many variables are involved both morally and legally. Even "castle doctrine laws" vary from state to state. In some you are merely not required to retreat but may intervene to protect your property. The use of deadly force still is justified only by threat of death or serious bodily harm to you.

How would you feel after gunning down an unidentified shadow when you turn on the lights and find it to be your 12 year old neighbor. Even worse, his last words are, "Mr. -- I didn't know you were home, I just wanted to borrow a video game disk". Your Son showed me where the key was, I thought you were gone".

sakeneko · 05-22-2009, 01:02 AM

<popping up a month later> :-)

In Nevada, if a burglar is in someone's private home without permission, the presumption is that they intend violence and that the homeowner or other person present is justified to shoot to protect lives. It is possible to overcome that presumption, but only with clear and convincing evidence. For example, if the burglar was a seven-year-old kid who clearly had no weapon, the law would probably frown heavily on your shooting him. You also can't shoot someone who has their back turned and is fleeing unless they somehow still present a threat. (Such as are fleeing with a hostage.) A burglar of adult size and with no obvious handicap, however, is probably not going to overcome the presumption that they pose a credible threat to your life.

Legalities aside, though, I think Carver's got the right idea. Even if it were legal to shoot somebody who was fleeing my home with valuable property of mine, I wouldn't do it. Human life is precious, even when some idiot is wasting their life as a criminal. There's always the possibility that they might turn things around. I would not choose to deny them that opportunity unless their actions were an imminent threat to my life or that of another innocent person.

Big ugly · 05-22-2009, 01:16 AM

Its like what I had to go through when I was in Ga alast month gettin those morons that broke into my fathers porch. If I was to have pointed the shot gun at them then I couldve been arrested. Instead I chose the lesser of the two evils and shot the radiator out of their truck with the bean bag, worse case scenario I would have had to pay restitution for the damages to the truck. There is no clear law to any of these instances, for instace the castle law that some states have does little to protect you from getting a civil suit against you. I dont like the fact that you property is not safe any more. A thief gets away pretty light for a standard residential brak in. Most staes give a max of five years and even then those are rare. Most only get 18 months and their free to do it agin. Especially if you live in a state with out the three strikes laws.

oscarmayer · 05-22-2009, 06:16 AM

at the risk of pissin people off here's the deal. most people have not had to take a life and therefore do not know the responsibility that goes along with it. the struggle they will have for the rest of their life if forced into a life taking situation. to type here or anywhere else " i'll shoot someone if i catch them stealing my stuff" is the talk of a "keyboard commando" yes shoot if your life is in danger , but if they are crawling out the window with the dvd player and you shoot them shame on you . and the nightmares you'll experience for the rest of your life will be a heavy price to pay for that dvd player. being in the right doesnt always mean clear conscience. and remeber you have to deal with the law, ok if no charges are filed but wait for the civil action , and maybe you'll win the case against you, and you'll get to the the luckiest guy in the poor house after the legal fees.is it worth it for some stuff ???

RunningOnMT · 05-22-2009, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oscarmayer

at the risk of pissin people off here's the deal. most people have not had to take a life and therefore do not know the responsibility that goes along with it. the struggle they will have for the rest of their life if forced into a life taking situation. to type here or anywhere else " i'll shoot someone if i catch them stealing my stuff" is the talk of a "keyboard commando" yes shoot if your life is in danger , but if they are crawling out the window with the dvd player and you shoot them shame on you . and the nightmares you'll experience for the rest of your life will be a heavy price to pay for that dvd player. being in the right doesnt always mean clear conscience. and remeber you have to deal with the law, ok if no charges are filed but wait for the civil action , and maybe you'll win the case against you, and you'll get to the the luckiest guy in the poor house after the legal fees.is it worth it for some stuff ???

There is much wisdom in what you say. Life is too precious to take so lightly. I have a little saying I made up.."If you can't create life then you have no right to take it".

But I gotta tell you I have a real conflict sometimes. I despise those who would steal or vandalize someone elses hard earned possessions. This total lack of respect for the property of others infuriates me. There are times when I feel like I would like to open up a 12 ga. on them.

Now as for someone breaking into your home....I am divorced and live alone. Frankly I'm not sure how I would react to someone breaking into my home now, but I can say without hesitation that when I was married and had my children in my home I would not have hesitated to shoot should someone break in at night. my family means too much to me to,

There are lots of hypotheticals that run through ones mind. I think most of us tend to think our response would be more violent than it really would be under certain circumstances. I have often thougt that If someone were to harm my wife (at the time) or my children, I would "blow them away". I'm talking about a violent attack or sexual assault here...not fistacuffs between adolescents. But in more lucid moments I realize that if actually faced with that situation I might just pray for the courage not to act and let the courts handle it.

oscarmayer · 05-22-2009, 07:36 AM

when my children lived at home i had my mind made up. i hear a noise downstairs i'm going to check it out armed. if i was to confront someone in the process of taking my stuff i'd hold them at gun point praying i didnt have to shoot until the police arrive. now if i hear a noise on the stairs or already upstairs where the children were sleeping i'm going to check it out armed but with the intention of sending who ever it is to hell. though the kids are gone and i no longer live ina 2 story house my rule of thumb is this. the rest of the house is fair game steal my stuff if you must if i catch you i hold you for the police if you enter the bedroom you get sent to hell . i can only assume if they are in my bedroom they mean to harm me or my wife.

45nut · 05-22-2009, 07:54 AM

I think you need to be prepared to shoot to kill. Whether or not you have to is another matter entirely.

There was a local man who had been robbed several times and he was a general contractor. He would drive by his house at odd times during the day. One day he pulled into his driveway and 3 thugs were hauling his stuff out to their car. Out comes the .44 mag carbine and 2 guys die from head shots and the other lost an arm at the elbow. Needless to say his house didn't get robbed any more. He was no billed by the grand jury because they were on his property fleeing with his stuff. This was before the castle law was passed in Texas too.

As to any civil charges being filed I cannot say. He was justified and within his legal bounds to protect his property.

If I am home and someone breaks in, my intent is to protect my wife and myself. If that means the BG dies, he made the choice when he decided to break into my house.

I am not looking for an invitation to kill someone either. I have had 2 incidents where I could have legally used deadly force, but the situation did not warrant such measures, so I didn't. If I never have to do so, it's okay with me. If I do ever have to do it, then I will deal with it as needed.

oscarmayer · 05-22-2009, 08:12 AM

texas is an altogether different world. in texas it legal to shoot someone breaking into your neighbors house

. my point is this do whatever you think is right for you but remember this, what ever decission you make you'll have to live with for the rest of your life. my only issue with the " KEYBOARD COMMADOS" is the off the cuff bravado " i'll kill anyone entering my house" it's plain to see they never took a life before. and it's sad to see. i just hope they realize how dumb it is to take a life over a camera or tv or vcr.... and heaven forbid it's not just some dumb 15 yr old kid they shoot while he crawls out of the homeowners window.

zfk55 · 05-22-2009, 08:29 AM

Something I was also taught is that there are two kinds of prosecution, and the bad one is "civil". That's where the lawyers don't care what the law is. Its based on what the jury will believe about the shooter and the shootee despite the law.
Its not universally understood that jurys don't have to go by the law at all. They can decide something despite the law or a judge if they feel its just.

Latigo

mark_baron · 05-22-2009, 08:42 AM

We have the Castle Doctrine here in Florida. It is a model which several states have copied. In some states (like my home state - the Peoples RepubliK of New Jersey) you might as well adopt the perp you injure - he will eventually own all of your stuff.

oscarmayer · 05-22-2009, 09:07 AM

everyone needs to read their states "castle doctrine" it isn't a license to kill. and it wont protect you agaist a civil law suit.

RunningOnMT · 05-22-2009, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oscarmayer

texas is an altogether different world. in texas it legal to shoot someone breaking into your neighbors house

. my point is this do whatever you think is right for you but remember this, what ever decission you make you'll have to live with for the rest of your life. my only issue with the " KEYBOARD COMMADOS" is the off the cuff bravado " i'll kill anyone entering my house" it's plain to see they never took a life before. and it's sad to see. i just hope they realize how dumb it is to take a life over a camera or tv or vcr.... and heaven forbid it's not just some dumb 15 yr old kid they shoot while he crawls out of the homeowners window.

I agree with the the sentiment of your post but I can think of at least one person here who is anything but a "keyboard commando" who I recall stating that if someone breaks into his home at night he would shoot to kill.

However, your main point and one upon which I believe most of us agree was well illustrated by zfk55's father in "The Lost Prairie Chronicles #18" on this thread http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=60859. Some people it seems are just waiting for the opportunity to pop somebody. That is very sad and troubling.

kutaho · 05-22-2009, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ineedsoap16

my dad lives in the same neighborhood as me and had his truck broken into the other day. We have two other breakins in the last month.. i have lived here for 6 years with no record like this. When I spoke with my father the other day he made a mention of "If someone does break in here they will be dead before the cops get here" no storry... Any thought on live daed with a story for the cops. I have hear of good people defendeing their homes against bg's and getting sued because their persuer lived and testified. I am not looking for a should I'll kill somebody thread, but any thoughts?

Shoot to kill, and if he drags himself out the door before he dies, (won't happen with the .45) drag his dead ass back in. That way your covered.

of course it does depend on the state you live in. Were a state of gun toting rednecks, Oregon hillbilly's.

oscarmayer · 05-26-2009, 05:09 AM

i rest my case

zfk55 · 05-26-2009, 06:09 AM

Shoot to kill, and if he drags himself out the door before he dies, (won't happen with the .45) drag his dead ass back in. That way your covered.------------------------------------------------------------

And any novice Forensics Tech will be resting his case shortly thereafter too, oscarmayer.

Latigo

04-25-2009, 11:59 PM	#2
obxned Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,342	Re: Self defense In most states, you can't shoot to prevent property crimes outside of your home. Even 'citizen arrerst' is iffy in many places. It may not be right or moral, but the law is the law. Violate the law and you will have peoblems! __________________ Proud member of a North Carolina Committee of Safety "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Stand on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

04-26-2009, 09:42 AM	#3
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,254	Re: Self defense I don't know the laws of the state you live in, but here in TX we may shoot the burglar. If I am in the home, and he, or they, come into my home, I will shoot. If they are headed out across the yard with an arm load of my stuff, TX law says I can still protect my property, but I draw the line here! You see, I don't really want to shoot anyone, but I will. I personally believe that this BG's life is worth more than my big screen TV, and then there is the issue his immortal soul! I would rather win him to Christ, than send him to hell! However, that will in no way, prevent me from ending his life to protect mine, or my family! __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old. Last edited by carver; 04-26-2009 at 09:44 AM..

04-26-2009, 05:03 PM	#4
Tom Militano Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Jacksonville, AL Posts: 1,255	Re: Self defense Anybody that tries to rob something from my house is going to get shot. Period. I don't care if he goes to heaven or hell, but he's going to one or the other.

04-26-2009, 06:01 PM	#5
ineedsoap16 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Wilmington DE Posts: 86	Re: Self defense Good replies. I feel much the same way as you all.. If I am losing a car stereo it is not woth a life, but when my family or I am in danger anything goes.

04-26-2009, 11:37 PM	#6
TxIronWolf Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Gods Country Texas Posts: 8	Re: Self defense If the BG get away with your stuff becuse you didn't do something, and the next night they kill someone else how will that one be settled? As for me I work way to hard to let some punk walk off with my things. As far as what thier life is worth....They are the ones making that call when they went to take my stuff.

04-25-2009, 08:33 PM	#1
ineedsoap16 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Wilmington DE Posts: 86	Self defense my dad lives in the same neighborhood as me and had his truck broken into the other day. We have two other breakins in the last month.. i have lived here for 6 years with no record like this. When I spoke with my father the other day he made a mention of "If someone does break in here they will be dead before the cops get here" no storry... Any thought on live daed with a story for the cops. I have hear of good people defendeing their homes against bg's and getting sued because their persuer lived and testified. I am not looking for a should I'll kill somebody thread, but any thoughts? -->

04-27-2009, 09:28 AM	#7
oscarmayer Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Contributor Posts: 2,387	Re: Self defense except in the state of texas where you can shoot someone that has just broke into your neighbors home the laws very from state to state. and even if no charges are filed against you be ready to face civil action. countless bg's have sued and won now sure shoot to kill and no lawsuit right ? wrong.... momma or some shoe string relation will attempt to sue. anyone that has a gun and thinks that they may someday need it to defend their home i suggest getting the book "in the gravest extreme". it's a eye opener there are countless examples of people who's lives were ruined because they used deadly force to protect their property or their loved ones.

04-27-2009, 11:03 AM	#8
Tom Militano Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Jacksonville, AL Posts: 1,255	Re: Self defense We have the Castle Law in Alabama. So leave my stuff alone.

04-27-2009, 11:20 AM	#9
army mp V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: western Pa, Posts: 479	Re: Self defense Your best bet would be to go to NRA online they list all state laws by state. every state is different, Also I would be careful making bold statements in forms. A few years back a New Jersey cop made some statements in a chat room that came back to haunt him in a latter court date. At best a legal shoot. Will be costly as well as A night in jail. That said your life is worth more than a few bucks and a night in jail.

04-27-2009, 03:02 PM	#10
Tom Militano Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Jacksonville, AL Posts: 1,255	Re: Self defense We have a restraining order against a couple of people. Of course one of them is in jail at the moment. My wife got a five year restraining order, his ex wife got a 20 year, yeah a TWENTY year, and his mother had a five year order against him before she died. Neither one of the sorry sob's have even sent me a Christmas Card. My feelings are hurt.

04-27-2009, 04:40 PM	#11
BillP V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: On a lake near Detroit Lakes, MN Posts: 192	Re: Self defense Making up your mind ahead of time that you intend to kill anyone who breaks into your house is not something you as a reasonable person want to do. Making such a statement in public is not in your best interest either. Don't get me wrong I am willing to use deadly force to protect myself or my family but I would rather not have to and intend to keep my options open. Entirely too many variables are involved both morally and legally. Even "castle doctrine laws" vary from state to state. In some you are merely not required to retreat but may intervene to protect your property. The use of deadly force still is justified only by threat of death or serious bodily harm to you. How would you feel after gunning down an unidentified shadow when you turn on the lights and find it to be your 12 year old neighbor. Even worse, his last words are, "Mr. -- I didn't know you were home, I just wanted to borrow a video game disk". Your Son showed me where the key was, I thought you were gone". Last edited by BillP; 04-28-2009 at 09:00 AM..

05-22-2009, 01:02 AM	#12
sakeneko V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Nevada Posts: 83	Re: Self defense <popping up a month later> :-) In Nevada, if a burglar is in someone's private home without permission, the presumption is that they intend violence and that the homeowner or other person present is justified to shoot to protect lives. It is possible to overcome that presumption, but only with clear and convincing evidence. For example, if the burglar was a seven-year-old kid who clearly had no weapon, the law would probably frown heavily on your shooting him. You also can't shoot someone who has their back turned and is fleeing unless they somehow still present a threat. (Such as are fleeing with a hostage.) A burglar of adult size and with no obvious handicap, however, is probably not going to overcome the presumption that they pose a credible threat to your life. Legalities aside, though, I think Carver's got the right idea. Even if it were legal to shoot somebody who was fleeing my home with valuable property of mine, I wouldn't do it. Human life is precious, even when some idiot is wasting their life as a criminal. There's always the possibility that they might turn things around. I would not choose to deny them that opportunity unless their actions were an imminent threat to my life or that of another innocent person.

05-22-2009, 01:16 AM	#13
Big ugly Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Knoxville Tennessee Contributor Posts: 2,603	Re: Self defense Its like what I had to go through when I was in Ga alast month gettin those morons that broke into my fathers porch. If I was to have pointed the shot gun at them then I couldve been arrested. Instead I chose the lesser of the two evils and shot the radiator out of their truck with the bean bag, worse case scenario I would have had to pay restitution for the damages to the truck. There is no clear law to any of these instances, for instace the castle law that some states have does little to protect you from getting a civil suit against you. I dont like the fact that you property is not safe any more. A thief gets away pretty light for a standard residential brak in. Most staes give a max of five years and even then those are rare. Most only get 18 months and their free to do it agin. Especially if you live in a state with out the three strikes laws. __________________ "You say the Devil made do it with a smile. Raisin' hell and howlin at the moon. Well I'm gonna put your @$$ back in line. I'm gonna scare the Devil out of you." BlackBerry Smoke Song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R513dA4peMg Nothing is "proof" against a truly talented fool. Swanshot

05-22-2009, 06:16 AM	#14
oscarmayer Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Contributor Posts: 2,387	Re: Self defense at the risk of pissin people off here's the deal. most people have not had to take a life and therefore do not know the responsibility that goes along with it. the struggle they will have for the rest of their life if forced into a life taking situation. to type here or anywhere else " i'll shoot someone if i catch them stealing my stuff" is the talk of a "keyboard commando" yes shoot if your life is in danger , but if they are crawling out the window with the dvd player and you shoot them shame on you . and the nightmares you'll experience for the rest of your life will be a heavy price to pay for that dvd player. being in the right doesnt always mean clear conscience. and remeber you have to deal with the law, ok if no charges are filed but wait for the civil action , and maybe you'll win the case against you, and you'll get to the the luckiest guy in the poor house after the legal fees.is it worth it for some stuff ???

05-22-2009, 07:36 AM	#16
oscarmayer Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Contributor Posts: 2,387	Re: Self defense when my children lived at home i had my mind made up. i hear a noise downstairs i'm going to check it out armed. if i was to confront someone in the process of taking my stuff i'd hold them at gun point praying i didnt have to shoot until the police arrive. now if i hear a noise on the stairs or already upstairs where the children were sleeping i'm going to check it out armed but with the intention of sending who ever it is to hell. though the kids are gone and i no longer live ina 2 story house my rule of thumb is this. the rest of the house is fair game steal my stuff if you must if i catch you i hold you for the police if you enter the bedroom you get sent to hell . i can only assume if they are in my bedroom they mean to harm me or my wife.

05-22-2009, 07:54 AM	#17
45nut Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,428	Re: Self defense I think you need to be prepared to shoot to kill. Whether or not you *have* to is another matter entirely. There was a local man who had been robbed several times and he was a general contractor. He would drive by his house at odd times during the day. One day he pulled into his driveway and 3 thugs were hauling his stuff out to their car. Out comes the .44 mag carbine and 2 guys die from head shots and the other lost an arm at the elbow. Needless to say his house didn't get robbed any more. He was no billed by the grand jury because they were on his property fleeing with his stuff. This was before the castle law was passed in Texas too. As to any civil charges being filed I cannot say. He was justified and within his legal bounds to protect his property. If I am home and someone breaks in, my intent is to protect my wife and myself. If that means the BG dies, he made the choice when he decided to break into my house. I am not looking for an invitation to kill someone either. I have had 2 incidents where I could have legally used deadly force, but the situation did not warrant such measures, so I didn't. If I *never* have to do so, it's okay with me. If I do ever have to do it, then I will deal with it as needed. __________________ A gun is a tool, Marian; no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that. Shane Nemo me impune lacesset We recall the case of the Shoshone war band which showed up complete with one 30-30 rifle per man the week after Pearl Harbor, and simply wanted to have the enemy pointed out to them. "We hear there's a war going on and we want to go fight it." Jeff Cooper *KCCO* Last edited by 45nut; 05-22-2009 at 07:55 AM..

05-22-2009, 08:12 AM	#18
oscarmayer Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Contributor Posts: 2,387	Re: Self defense texas is an altogether different world. in texas it legal to shoot someone breaking into your neighbors house . my point is this do whatever you think is right for you but remember this, what ever decission you make you'll have to live with for the rest of your life. my only issue with the " KEYBOARD COMMADOS" is the off the cuff bravado " i'll kill anyone entering my house" it's plain to see they never took a life before. and it's sad to see. i just hope they realize how dumb it is to take a life over a camera or tv or vcr.... and heaven forbid it's not just some dumb 15 yr old kid they shoot while he crawls out of the homeowners window.

05-22-2009, 08:29 AM	#19
zfk55 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Lost Prairie Montana Posts: 237	Re: Self defense Something I was also taught is that there are two kinds of prosecution, and the bad one is "civil". That's where the lawyers don't care what the law is. Its based on what the jury will believe about the shooter and the shootee despite the law. Its not universally understood that jurys don't have to go by the law at all. They can decide something despite the law or a judge if they feel its just. Latigo __________________ Latigo A Montanan and an actual American with a real American Birth Certificate.

05-22-2009, 08:42 AM	#20
mark_baron V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 112	Re: Self defense We have the Castle Doctrine here in Florida. It is a model which several states have copied. In some states (like my home state - the Peoples RepubliK of New Jersey) you might as well adopt the perp you injure - he will eventually own all of your stuff.

05-22-2009, 09:07 AM	#21
oscarmayer Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Contributor Posts: 2,387	Re: Self defense everyone needs to read their states "castle doctrine" it isn't a license to kill. and it wont protect you agaist a civil law suit.

05-26-2009, 05:09 AM	#24
oscarmayer Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Contributor Posts: 2,387	Re: Self defense i rest my case

05-26-2009, 06:09 AM	#25
zfk55 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Lost Prairie Montana Posts: 237	Re: Self defense Shoot to kill, and if he drags himself out the door before he dies, (won't happen with the .45) drag his dead ass back in. That way your covered.------------------------------------------------------------ And any novice Forensics Tech will be resting his case shortly thereafter too, oscarmayer. Latigo __________________ Latigo A Montanan and an actual American with a real American Birth Certificate.