Home Defense

[Powderhorn]

Originally Posted by johnlives4christ

i disagree with a passion , i dont think that any ak would survive being ran over by a tank. a vehical yes, but a tank no. steel tread doesnt give, neither does 50 tons, at the least it would crush the dust cover and distort the recoil spring guide rod, and most likely it would push the sides of that receiver together in a manner that it would bind the bolt carrier, and the pins and cause it to be inoperable

~john

My bad.

It was more of a figure of speech than an actual event, John. I chose a poor literal example, but I was trying to emphasize figuratively the hardiness of the AKM.

Hey at least I didn't say it could survive a nuclear blast!

[johnlives4christ]

Originally Posted by Powderhorn

My bad.

It was more of a figure of speech than an actual event, John. I chose a poor literal example, but I was trying to emphasize figuratively the hardiness of the AKM.

Hey at least I didn't say it could survive a nuclear blast!

i was just saying... nothing meant by it

[dark_falcon27]

In all these situations, regardless of weapon choice, what is the consensus on lighting? Lights on for all around visibility for all parties? Or use darkness as your friend in a familiar setting? (assuming you have a rail mounted light or the cross arm grip with a light)

[johnlives4christ]

there would be no reason to think that the bad guy wouldnt have a flashlight so as far as im concerned, turn the lights on if you can, it will cause him to be aware of your presence and he may flee. in a familiar setting you could use the darkness to your advantage, but given that a persons goal is to end the confrontation without bloodshed, turning the lights on lets him know where you are, as long as it doesnt make you a sitting duck of course

[dark_falcon27]

I have also heard of a "house lighting master switch" that you can install in the master bedroom where one flip brings up every light in the house at once for total lighting in all areas. Nowhere to hide. I would have to say I am a fan of that idea.

[Charles Butler]

ya the light thing would be cool but hard to wire, id go with the shot me i have a remington 870 next to my bed loaded with 5 3" slugs, if you really wanna do someone dirty get an AA12 its bad if you dont know what it is check it out

[Powderhorn]

Originally Posted by dark_falcon27

I have also heard of a "house lighting master switch" that you can install in the master bedroom where one flip brings up every light in the house at once for total lighting in all areas. Nowhere to hide. I would have to say I am a fan of that idea.

I've never heard of that before, but it makes a lot of sense! I LIKE IT!

It'd also be cool to be able to control doors from your bedroom. Imagine crooks busting in, and suddenly are trapped in a hallway or something like in a horror movie. You could even hidden speakers to play music super-loud to throw them off. really sick music too, like german marching tunes or oompa band stuff played at warp factor 10. That would scare the bejesus outta them! Top it all off with strobing lights, and they'd be whimpering blobs of jelly by the time the cops showed up.

[Charles Butler]

Originally Posted by Powderhorn

I've never heard of that before, but it makes a lot of sense! I LIKE IT!

It'd also be cool to be able to control doors from your bedroom. Imagine crooks busting in, and suddenly are trapped in a hallway or something like in a horror movie. You could even hidden speakers to play music super-loud to throw them off. really sick music too, like german marching tunes or oompa band stuff played at warp factor 10. That would scare the bejesus outta them! Top it all off with strobing lights, and they'd be whimpering blobs of jelly by the time the cops showed up.

lol thats funny

[TranterUK]

Just a thought, guns, flashing lights and loud music aside, I make it a habit to lock all internal doors downstairs at night. The idea is if anyone does break in it will a) Slow them down getting beyond the one room they entered, and 2) make a lot of noise if they do decide to break their way beyond that room. Now it's not a fool proof plan, it is only part of a bigger one but a valuable idea I think. Think of it as layering ones defence.

[noplay6978]

Nothing better to anounce your intentions than chambering a round with your pump shotgun. Low base 8's give you a better chance of catching some of your target(s) in the dark. My wife's at the top of the stairs raining bad with her Ruger .357, my son has the m1.30 carbine. No one hides, everybody shoots.

[Powderhorn]

Originally Posted by TranterUK

Just a thought, guns, flashing lights and loud music aside, I make it a habit to lock all internal doors downstairs at night. The idea is if anyone does break in it will a) Slow them down getting beyond the one room they entered, and 2) make a lot of noise if they do decide to break their way beyond that room. Now it's not a fool proof plan, it is only part of a bigger one but a valuable idea I think. Think of it as layering ones defence.

LOL, I like your idea too.

[dark_falcon27]

Originally Posted by noplay6978

No one hides, everybody shoots.

Now THERE is a family value I can embrace. *Raises glass*

[40CalJoe]

I am glad this is being discussed. My wife and I do have a layered home defense strategy. Starting with motion sensor lights outside, alarm inside along with our dogs. She goes to her gun postion, I go to mine and anyone inside my house will be shot. I am protected by the state of FL which recently passed the casstle doctrine and no retreat law.

We just had our front door changed from cheap-o builder installed door, also added a keypad deadbolt along with the keyed deadbolt and doorknob lock, beefedup the door jam as well. I also pulled all of the hedges away from the house and replaced low grow shrubs and a Robellini palm which has 6" thorns on the trunk.

I do want to install a infared camera system which includes color high resolution cameras and DVR. I believe I will put the monitor at my wifes gun position which is concealed and also where she puts her cell phone at night.

No lights or lasers on the guns.

[Marine1]

If I have the time to get to the shot gun, 3 ft away, it is my first choice. Mossberg 500 .12 8 rounds Tac8 in mag, 4 rounds .00buck, 4 rounds slugs in carrier, pressure activated rail mounted light. A shot gun is great for most home defense. Pressure activated lighting allows for light when you need it and no light when you don’t want to be seen. Tac8 has a good spread at short range and limited through wall penetration. I carry the other round types incase I need more knock down power I have it available.

Second choice from your list would 45. Personally I use G27 with night sights and a SureFire light.

My wife G26 with Crimson Trace grips, SureFire light, and cell phone.

The AR would be use to engage at distances outside the home or if they are wearing body armor. (LR .308)

[Maximilian II]

My home defense is "there's always somebody there." I'm a night shift guy, even though I've been laid off a while. The wife is ex-deputy. She's awake daytime. My father in law is also ex-municipal law, he's pretty much awake randomly. If somebody happens to be napping, the little yappy dogs will let us know about people in the yard. Plus, our "landlords" live 30 yards away, they're my wife's aunt and uncle. He's retired state law enforcement. There are enough biting dogs and firearms at hand to be more often an impediment to friends than an obstacle for enemies.
I like that. My friends do too.

[Pistolenschutze]

It's been said before, but the value of a good dog as part of any home defense strategy should never be underestimated. No mechanical burglar alarm--short perhaps of those one might find on a military base or in a bank--can equal the warning potential of a dog protecting his family. It doesn't have to be a large dog, necessarily--though I prefer those of Labrador size or larger--just a dog with acute hearing and a loud bark. My two Labs serve that purpose quite well indeed.

[dutchdave]

so far i've felt pretty confident with my winchester 3500 home defender, but it's time for something a bit more solid.. ( a good samurai sword is a good deterent though..) any ideas??

[dutchdave]

Originally Posted by Powderhorn

LOL, I like your idea too.

that is a damn good tip there, than you buddy, i'll sort some out first thing in the morning !

[delta13soultaker]

Lots of mention on shotguns. Just want to mention two things.

1. The sound of a pump shotgun action will not intimidate the type of threat worth worrying about. It will just make killing you a bit easier since he knows where 1 target is now.

2. Inside of 30', a shotgun must be aimed just as methodically as a rifle. First shot on target probability should be higher than a handgun, but not any more so than it ought to be with a carbine or rifle either.

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by delta13soultaker

Lots of mention on shotguns. Just want to mention two things.

1. The sound of a pump shotgun action will not intimidate the type of threat worth worrying about. It will just make killing you a bit easier since he knows where 1 target is now.

Yup. The only sound a shotgun should make before use is the sound of a safety coming off. There should already be a round up the spout and six or seven more in the tube.

Originally Posted by delta13soultaker

2. Inside of 30', a shotgun must be aimed just as methodically as a rifle. First shot on target probability should be higher than a handgun, but not any more so than it ought to be with a carbine or rifle either.

Using a short, full cylinder barrel improves the shot spread a little at that distance, but not very much. Effectively, you still have to aim much as you would a rifle. The whole idea of a shotgun as an "alley sweeper" is just movie hype, not reality. At 30 yards, the situation changes considerably, but most bedrooms and hallways aren't quite that spacious.

[TranterUK]

I suggest whatever you choose, you take it to a range with at least 100rds and some time and get familiar with it. I am not talking about learning to shoot, thats another story, its to find out where the shot falls and with what spread at various ranges. Some high teck equipment will help, I suggest cardboard boxes. Just set them at various distances.

When ever I had a weapon I was going to depend on, I made sure I knew its characteristics up front.

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by TranterUK

When ever I had a weapon I was going to depend on, I made sure I knew its characteristics up front.

Only a fool wouldn't, Tranter. I've known people--I'm sure you have as well--who will buy a firearm for self-protection, then put it away in a drawer and never fire it, thinking they're now "safe." As we both know, nothing could be further from the truth. I've always maintained that anyone unwilling to practice with his weapon is likely better off not even owning one.

[delta13soultaker]

Originally Posted by Pistolenschutze

Using a short, full cylinder barrel improves the shot spread a little at that distance, but not very much. Effectively, you still have to aim much as you would a rifle. The whole idea of a shotgun as an "alley sweeper" is just movie hype, not reality. At 30 yards, the situation changes considerably, but most bedrooms and hallways aren't quite that spacious.

There is the other aspect of shotgun patterns that is rarely mentioned. IF you did find a barrel/shell combination that threw a wide pattern, it would be ineffective at stopping a threat.

Single 00 buckshot pellets are feeble little projectiles in terms of terminal ballistics.

Spreading a pattern apart takes away what makes a shotgun a good stopper: that fist sized glob of pellets actually has probability of hitting the vitals located center-mass in the torso.

Center-mass is center mass of the body in a 3-D sense. Not center from just the front, but in the middle too.

A man's vitals is located back around his spine behind 6+ inches of tissue and surrounded by tissue that has little effect when shot. From any angle but directly in front and the same level, a single bullet (handgun) or wide pattern (single pellets) usually passes right by the blood rich vitals.

With a handgun, to really aim center-mass from most angles you have to aim at the attacker's back, not his front. (That along with that people do not stand very still when the shooting begins.)

A tight shotgun pattern lets you mostly skip that step and just aim center-front.

A loose shotgun pattern will get you in deep doo-doo.

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by delta13soultaker

A loose shotgun pattern will get you in deep doo-doo.

Yup, which is why it is always a damn good idea to pattern any shotgun you intend to use for home defense so you know up front how dense the pattern is, and how much spread you get, at room distances.

[Powderhorn]

Single 00 buckshot pellets are feeble little projectiles in terms of terminal ballistics.

I agree to a point, but when you consider the fact that you are getting 8 to 9 .32 caliber lead balls screaming towards an assailant, you've got a very effective round. A single .32 caliber bullet by itself is pathetic, but x8 its pretty nasty!

Yeah, I also feel sorry for the people who buy a gun - just because they can - and tuck it away with no intention of becoming familiar with it. I truly think these folks are better off with a baseball bat.