Somali Pirates. . . a great opportunity

[Hardballer]

Somali Pirates. . .

I'd say this situation with the pirates presents a golden opportunity to every other nation in the world. . . . . . for practice. This time, instead of the p*ss poor intel Klinton's regime afforded American soldiers in the last go around, lets get it right.

These guys are hanging out in a country that has nothing, can do nothing, will do nothing and needs a little payback anyway. Take these bast*rds out. Put them down. Spread their bones and blood across Somalia. Make an example out of them and anyone else who would stand in our way.

For that matter, the same philosophy could be employed in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan. We might have to wait till Obismal's booted out but hey, a guy can dream can't he?

[neptoon]

African pirates are the least of Americas problems.America has over 500 pirates in control of Washington DC that need to be arrested! GOD HELP AMERICA!

[45nut]

Originally Posted by neptoon

African pirates are the least of Americas problems.America has over 500 pirates in control of Washington DC that need to be arrested! GOD HELP AMERICA!

Quote from "The Mountain Men" with Heston & Keith:

That's a good idea frog ass!!

+1

[GMFWoodchuck]

I'd like to get some "sniper" practice on them....

[GMFWoodchuck]

Originally Posted by neptoon

African pirates are the least of Americas problems.America has over 500 pirates in control of Washington DC that need to be arrested! GOD HELP AMERICA!

The truth is ever so painful....

[cycloneman]

These animals are no different than the ones in the middle east. The ones in somilia are just really poor and have no way of expanding their brain to do something about it. There are people like this in the world. They dont have the ability to teach themsevels or learn. Wouldn't it be a good idea to put something in their water to sterilize them. Just think in 30 years the stupidity is over. No young ones left to fight. If we only would have done this in the middle east back in the 70's.

[Charlie the sniper]

I was listening to a expert who specialises in Pirates, he made some good points.
He said that Somalia gets no help from the world community to fund a Coast guard, and he pointed out that illegal fish factories are operating in their coastal waters, but they are left alone by the the U.S Navy and Royal Navy. No shipping pays to use Somali shipping routes, and all these Ocean going ships clean their tanks out in their waters causing pollution. The Somali Government have requested radar and boats, so they can help intercept these Pirates...........but still they get no help.

So you have a situation in Somalia, that sees their people going hungry, while Western factory ships empty their seas of fish (illegally), with no money going into their economy. While the Countries around them receive payments from the shipping lines to
use their seas. Plus their coast is becoming polluted by these ships, washing out their tanks (illegally), and the west is not doing anything to stop this.

I know the west, especially America keeps old warships in reserve, maybe a few could be used to set up a coast guard (funded in part by the international shipping corporations).

Who do you go after? do you bomb every village along the coast ? and give international terrorist an other excuse ? Or do we Tax the fish factory ships (license) and use this money to help these people build hospitals, schools and be able to feed their children ?

How much money is being used every day by the international forces to half police this area of the Indian Ocean ? Now, think how far $1000 U.S Dollars would go in a small African coastal village? In some parts of the world, where the growing of drugs was a real problem, the farmers are now paid a guaranteed price for crops they grow, this works better than going in burning their fields and leaving them with no income.

Imagine for one moment, that you and your family were starving, and your children die, because they don't get a vaccination that cost 25 cents, then a Brinks armoured car carrying $1 MILLION drives over your land every day, destroying the only bit of food you can grow ????????

The fuel from one F-18 attacking a village, would feed the people of another 20 villages for a year................Give people food instead of bombing their homes, and you may just start to getting some respect back...instead of hatred.

It was pointed out that these people are uneducated, that's the problem, if you can't access the media (internet, radio, TV & books) because you have not been educated, then you are vulnerable to being brainwashed by the terrorist. Poor people only have their believes, religion (Islam or Christian) to give them hope, but if someone tells them that this is going to be taken from them.........you have a very dangerous enemy..one who's got nothing to loose by fighting you.

It always seems strange how the west will spend Billions of Dollars helping nations who are floating on oil, but have terrible human rights (Saudi Arabia) Then you watch our Leaders kissing their ass.

If you are going to Police, you have to be seen treating everyone equal, this means punishing corporate terrorist too.

I'm against all terrorism, but some times we need to look at what causes this cancer, that is the only way you will find a cure.

I hope I have not offended anyone, that is not my intention. Those Pirates got what they deserved, but let's not forget all those still being held captive. One air strike could see them all being killed.

For once, let's see a Positive rather than Negative reaction to this problem, is it time to show the world that we are their to help.

If we are going to launch an Air-strike on a village, to show force, lets drop food, and see what response that gets.

O.K........I'm ready for the abuse ! .........."INCOMING"

[cycloneman]

Charlie you got some good points and respect your ideas.

I do like helping certain people. thats right i said certain people. those who at least try to do the right thing and help themselves.
I guess what i am tired of is people that dont help themselves. just wait.

when i was a young boy i learned how to make crab nets and used them. it seems to me that, oh i dont know, certain people would get the idea and some twine and knit some trawls and go out into the ocean and fish for a living if thats all that you had. But you know fishing is hard, who wants to pull a trawl? It's easier to just hold up someone for their lunch money.

yea they got it bad. boo hoo. no one and i mean no one not even my govt helped me start, run and develop my business. it's funny how certain people of the world need just that kind of help to just eat. a nation that cant feed itself has no hope.

[cycloneman]

here is another thought. why is it that everbody's problem in the world is our problem? it would be so nice to watch someone with balls stand up and take control of their own situation. But again thats the hard way and most dont like that. ah i answered my own question.

[mrkirker]

Good response, Charlie!

[jacksonco]

What in the world were you thinking about Charlie when you made that post. A well thought and reasonable post. It is true indeed that these people have no real control over their destinies, There is no opportunity for it. They reside in a constant state of anarchy and chaos. They are lucky if they can put a mal on the table each night.

They are in a "Perpetual When The Sh** Hits the Fan State". I do not condone their actions of seizing ships and holding them for ransom but they are desparate people with no real hope of any other occupation. It is the heads of the orginizations that reap the benefits of the piracy. The pirates them selves are the employees or pawns of these crime lords. It is sad but the only decent job in this region is pirate.

[Big ugly]

Oh I agree with you Charlie no doubt about it. A country cannot be held responsible for the actions of a few. Yet we run into another situation with no solution. We can give ships and the equipment but the country in question has to have the means to protect them. I imagine that these pirates or rebels have connections in their local governmnet wich in turn cuzzes a larger problem, We give them the equipmnet then the equipment falls into the hads of the pirates now you have better armed pirates.

[Kingpin46]

Charlie you present some very good points and I would like to see all have what they need and can afford. But some countries exist just because their residents did not want to be residents or subjects of where they were, so they broke away for whatever reason and tried to start their own. Most of the time I have to think that is much easier talked about than done. But now these people have created a country with residents but no economy and no natural resources or anything else to offer. No way to put a government into place that will represent its residents because there is almost no way to communicate with the people. Now we have a country of tribes that are so busy fighting between themselves to take control, they have no time to get it right and join in the rest of the world. Catch 22 it looks like.

[USMC-03]

You'll get no argument from me on any of you're points Charlie. You're absolutely correct that a starving man will resort to desperate measures. I would most certainly resort to piracy myself if I had no other way to feed my family. And, feeding the Somalis would be much cheaper and much more humane than carpet bombing. It has, however, been tried before with disastrous results.

Unfortunately the Somali government has no control over most of the country, and where it does have at lease some control it's thoroughly corrupt. It's the men who control the most guns that make the rules and they won't allow the people to be fed by any outside source lest they loose power. The Somali government cannot enforce its laws on land let alone sea.

I fear that the only solution the woes of Somalia will be either invasion and annexation by a nation, or nations, with enough resources to control the entire countryside, or the careful application of foreign aid over many years to a selected leader who has the best chance to consolidate and transform the entire region. Perhaps a combination of the two?

Either way, the resolution is, I fear, many years away.

[Hardballer]

You might be right Charlie but we've been dropping food on these nations for a 50 or 60 years. For the most part, we have received bupkis in return. These "animals are just that.

Witness a little incident back in '93. Some press referred to them as militia, I don't know but I think they were anarchists. Like the insects pouring out of their lair in some Sci Fi movie or something. Mindless, killers bent on death and destruction.

Warlords are called that for a reason. In Somalia, Aid was given and the warlords stole the aid and sold it. Took it from starving people. Their own people.

This is acceptable behavior in the animal kingdom. The strong shall survive. Has been the way of things on that continent for a millennium. The condition in Mogadishu or generally in Somalia is in no way caused by or the fault of the world or in particular, the USA.

The only fix there is to change the accepted form of government which has been and still is mob rule. Any government in place is tentative at best with only a tenuous hold on any power.

If we really want to make a difference, the navy seal sniper team demonstrated exactly how that objective is accomplished. "One shot, one kill." Or one of my favorites; "If you run, you'll only die tired." By now it should be obvious that the only way to affect a change when dealing with animals is to speak to them in terms they cannot mistake.

[Hardballer]

Great article: click here.

[cycloneman]

I have no problems with helping the innocent Somali people. But yea there is always a but, the people have to rise up against the war loards and off em. Then the people have to stand down. Put the guns down, not give them away but cease fire on each other. Then take the stage and ask for help.

I think we should all view Blackhawk down and Tears of the Sun for chits and giggles then return to this thread. Everyone need to be reminded how they chop up their own and cut the womens brest off. Just to name a few of the lovely things they do.

[sabashimon]

Charlie, I can appreciate your thoughts here, however there is one point that I think you're missing.
If this were only about starving Somali's, then you might imagine that the ten's of millions that they've received in ransoms 'till now would suffice in housing, feeding, and educating half, if not more, of Somalia.
Where's the money going?
There is more than just a little anecdotal evidence that much of it is finding it's way into the hands of that well known humanitarian organization know as al qaeda, as well as lesser known, but similarily minded groups.

[Charlie the sniper]

Don't get me wrong, these Pirates should be blasted out of the sea, what they are doing is 100% wrong. What I'm trying to say is, maybe our leaders should perhaps think more long term, rather than short term. I agree with Hardballer, we have been dropping food for many years, that's another problem, most of the aid rots in warehouses or fails to reach the innocent people, Warlords and corrupt government officials get richer by controlling the AID coming in. The international Aid agencies do a great job, but they have no force. Now, imagine the military, flying in the food to each village, and let them hand the food to the villagers, and if some one wants to try and stop them...BANG!
No silly rules saying that the troops cant open fire, unless their fired on. If some guy is carrying an AK 47, shoot him.

Why cant these ships have a small squad of troops on board, again the shipping lines could cover this cost, 10 US Marines with M60's and anti-tank weapons, must cost much less than millions of Dollars ransoms. ......just thinking out loud!

I don't have the answer to the problem, but I think it's time for someone to sit down and think about ,"what needs doing".

[sabashimon]

[Pistolenschutze]

Good one, Shimon!

[cycloneman]

The problem is not easy to fix. The size of the area that needs to be patroled is ruffly half the US. Actually alittle better than that. I saw a news report about this. A large portion of the US mid section is the equilivent to the area that would need to be monitored. hundreds and hundreds of miles, you need more than 10 soilders.

commercial ships need to have their own security (offensive force) on board. thats what i think. at sea what laws apply? piracy, hmmmm that is fair game. open fire. should be able to find mercenaries for this easy, dont ya think.

[Charlie the sniper]

Yeah, that's what I was suggesting, put a small force on the ships. And when these small boats pull along side............."Target Practice"

Remember "Q-Ships" in the first world war, looked like small cargo ships or fishing boats, but were armed with some nice big guns.

[carver]

"Let us level the playing field". "Let us redistribute the wealth". "Let us make everyone equal".

[fmacsin1]

As we can see with everyone's post, obviously, there isn't an easy answer; is there ever? More than likely, the general population of Somalia has no idea what's even going on. That country is being run by the many factions of warlords who are purely and simply greedy. Most of our problems in the world today do come down to greed. Look about us in our own country.