Hopkins and Allen top break revolver? - The Firearms Forum

TJ12345 · 05-01-2009, 06:23 PM

Can anyone tell me about the Hopkins and Allen top break pistol, on the top of the barrel this is what is stamped:
HOPKINS & ALLEN MFG CO.
NORWICH CONN.U.S.A.PAT JAN 5.OCT 5.86

On the bottom of the handle there's a serial number:
22
104

I'm not entirely sure but I'd have to guess this is a .32, it also has a 3 in. barrel, nickel plated.

Any info on where to look to identify this revolver would be greatly appreciated.

TJ12345 · 05-01-2009, 06:40 PM

Also there are additional serial numbers on the cylinder where you load the revolver:
2878

This revolver is also a double action.

45Auto · 05-01-2009, 09:44 PM

A picture would go a long way to help i.d. your revolver. H&A top brakes are divided into new and old models, etc, etc.

TJ12345 · 05-02-2009, 08:55 AM

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TJ12345 · 05-02-2009, 08:55 AM

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TJ12345 · 05-02-2009, 08:57 AM

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b.goforth · 05-02-2009, 12:36 PM

hopkins and allen was official incorporated on november 10, 1868. top break revolver were introduced about 1885. this revolver marked with the two 1886 patent dates was manufactured between 1886 and february 1899. february 1899 is the date of a fire that completely distroyied the H&A factory ( it was rebuilt). after the fire H&A purchased the forehand arms company of worcester mass. and continued the operation there until a new factory could be built in norwich conn. the top break revolver manufactured by H&A between 1899 and 1907 were marked 'forehand model 1901' by H&A. in 1908 a new top break revolver called the "safety police Model" was introduced and remained in production until H&A closed their doors in 1917.

there are three types H&A top break revolvers
1885-1899 usually marked with the 1886 patent dates (some my have more than two patent date markings but none would be later than 1899

1899-1907 forhand models all manufactured using designs patented by either forehand & wadsworth or forehand arms co.

1908-1917 safety police model, marked with that name and usually the patent date august 21, 1906.

in H&A's 1910 catalog H&A attempted to prove the "safety po;ice model" was safe with smokeless powder by making the statement "-----923 rounds of smokeless powder cartridges were fired from one revolver------" but the true facts of this statement is, on the 924th round the revolver failed. this is the basis of my statement that all H&A revolvers should be treated as "black powder only" today.
bill

TJ12345 · 05-03-2009, 07:44 AM

Thanks for the reply, do you happen to know if this particular gun would be a .32 or a .38 and I've also heard people mention in other forums about the type of ammo that should be used, any info would be appreciated as well.

b.goforth · 05-03-2009, 05:27 PM

my above post states my opinion of H&A revolvers all are black powder only.

standard barrel length for small frame is 3 inches
7 shot 22 rimfire
5 shot 32 S&W centerfire

standard barrel length for large frame 3 1/4 inches
6 shot 32 S&W centerfire
5 shot 38 S&W centerfire

bill

granny62k · 06-12-2012, 06:00 PM

my husband has the safety police model pat. aug 21 1906 do you know what the value for this would be, he said it is missing the firing pin,

Lanrezac · 06-12-2012, 06:22 PM

Ma'am, without seeing a picture of it, it is hard to give you any kind of information. However, in average condition, these guns often sell for around $150 - when you can find a buyer. (There are not a lot of people who want them, unless they can get them very cheap.) Prices and the number of buyers go down fast as condition drops.

There are some companies that buy guns just for parts (do a Google search for gun parts company), but I don't know what they pay or if they want another Hopkins & Allen.

Sorry not to be more helpful, but without more information I don't know what else to say.

PS - the price I mentioned was for a buyer who wants it for himself. A dealer will pay 40%-60% less.

76type2 · 05-01-2013, 07:30 AM

Bill,
Hopefully you're still out there contributing to this forum. I just joined today and read this thread with interest. I have a safety police model in 22 small frame (7 shot) that is in great condition with one exception. The cylinder wear on the outside where the locating catch has worn a groove all the way around. The cylinder will not locate properly making the gun unusable. My question is, is this repairable? This gun was passed down to me by my father when he passed away last fall and I would love to be able to shoot 22 shorts with this gun. I know he would have liked it if I had it repaired. Thank You for your input. Dave

05-01-2009, 06:23 PM	#1
TJ12345 Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 6	Hopkins and Allen top break revolver? Can anyone tell me about the Hopkins and Allen top break pistol, on the top of the barrel this is what is stamped: HOPKINS & ALLEN MFG CO. NORWICH CONN.U.S.A.PAT JAN 5.OCT 5.86 On the bottom of the handle there's a serial number: 22 104 I'm not entirely sure but I'd have to guess this is a .32, it also has a 3 in. barrel, nickel plated. Any info on where to look to identify this revolver would be greatly appreciated. --> Last edited by TJ12345; 05-01-2009 at 06:29 PM.. Reason: additional gun info added

05-01-2009, 06:40 PM	#2
TJ12345 Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 6	Re: Hopkins and Allen top break revolver? Also there are additional serial numbers on the cylinder where you load the revolver: 2878 This revolver is also a double action. Last edited by TJ12345; 05-01-2009 at 06:42 PM.. Reason: incorrect

05-01-2009, 09:44 PM	#3
45Auto Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,119	Re: Hopkins and Allen top break revolver? A picture would go a long way to help i.d. your revolver. H&A top brakes are divided into new and old models, etc, etc.

05-02-2009, 08:55 AM	#4
TJ12345 Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 6	Re: Hopkins and Allen top break revolver? [IMG][/IMG]

05-02-2009, 08:55 AM	#5
TJ12345 Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 6	Re: Hopkins and Allen top break revolver? [IMG][/IMG]

05-02-2009, 08:57 AM	#6
TJ12345 Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 6	Re: Hopkins and Allen top break revolver? [IMG][/IMG]

05-02-2009, 12:36 PM	#7
b.goforth Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: houston, tx Posts: 3,174	Re: Hopkins and Allen top break revolver? hopkins and allen was official incorporated on november 10, 1868. top break revolver were introduced about 1885. this revolver marked with the two 1886 patent dates was manufactured between 1886 and february 1899. february 1899 is the date of a fire that completely distroyied the H&A factory ( it was rebuilt). after the fire H&A purchased the forehand arms company of worcester mass. and continued the operation there until a new factory could be built in norwich conn. the top break revolver manufactured by H&A between 1899 and 1907 were marked 'forehand model 1901' by H&A. in 1908 a new top break revolver called the "safety police Model" was introduced and remained in production until H&A closed their doors in 1917. there are three types H&A top break revolvers 1885-1899 usually marked with the 1886 patent dates (some my have more than two patent date markings but none would be later than 1899 1899-1907 forhand models all manufactured using designs patented by either forehand & wadsworth or forehand arms co. 1908-1917 safety police model, marked with that name and usually the patent date august 21, 1906. in H&A's 1910 catalog H&A attempted to prove the "safety po;ice model" was safe with smokeless powder by making the statement "-----923 rounds of smokeless powder cartridges were fired from one revolver------" but the true facts of this statement is, on the 924th round the revolver failed. this is the basis of my statement that all H&A revolvers should be treated as "black powder only" today. bill __________________ Author: Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle Works 1871-1993 H&R Arms Company 1871-1986 (due spring 2010) available from www.gunshowbooks.com website; iverjohnsoncollector.x10hosting.com Last edited by b.goforth; 05-02-2009 at 12:39 PM..

05-03-2009, 07:44 AM	#8
TJ12345 Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 6	Re: Hopkins and Allen top break revolver? Thanks for the reply, do you happen to know if this particular gun would be a .32 or a .38 and I've also heard people mention in other forums about the type of ammo that should be used, any info would be appreciated as well.

05-03-2009, 05:27 PM	#9
b.goforth Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: houston, tx Posts: 3,174	Re: Hopkins and Allen top break revolver? my above post states my opinion of H&A revolvers all are black powder only. standard barrel length for small frame is 3 inches 7 shot 22 rimfire 5 shot 32 S&W centerfire standard barrel length for large frame 3 1/4 inches 6 shot 32 S&W centerfire 5 shot 38 S&W centerfire bill __________________ Author: Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle Works 1871-1993 H&R Arms Company 1871-1986 (due spring 2010) available from www.gunshowbooks.com website; iverjohnsoncollector.x10hosting.com

06-12-2012, 06:00 PM	#10
granny62k Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 1	Re: Hopkins and Allen top break revolver? my husband has the safety police model pat. aug 21 1906 do you know what the value for this would be, he said it is missing the firing pin,

06-12-2012, 06:22 PM	#11
Lanrezac Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 685	Re: Hopkins and Allen top break revolver? Ma'am, without seeing a picture of it, it is hard to give you any kind of information. However, in average condition, these guns often sell for around $150 - when you can find a buyer. (There are not a lot of people who want them, unless they can get them very cheap.) Prices and the number of buyers go down fast as condition drops. There are some companies that buy guns just for parts (do a Google search for gun parts company), but I don't know what they pay or if they want another Hopkins & Allen. Sorry not to be more helpful, but without more information I don't know what else to say. PS - the price I mentioned was for a buyer who wants it for himself. A dealer will pay 40%-60% less. Last edited by Lanrezac; 06-12-2012 at 10:43 PM..

05-01-2013, 07:30 AM	#12
76type2 Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 1	Re: Hopkins and Allen top break revolver? Bill, Hopefully you're still out there contributing to this forum. I just joined today and read this thread with interest. I have a safety police model in 22 small frame (7 shot) that is in great condition with one exception. The cylinder wear on the outside where the locating catch has worn a groove all the way around. The cylinder will not locate properly making the gun unusable. My question is, is this repairable? This gun was passed down to me by my father when he passed away last fall and I would love to be able to shoot 22 shorts with this gun. I know he would have liked it if I had it repaired. Thank You for your input. Dave