Feds want to pay people to buy a new car - The Firearms Forum

bcj1755 · 05-09-2009, 11:14 PM

My $4,500 Lemon: Taking the Feds Up on Cash For Clunkers
Time.com

By DAVID VON DREHLE David Von Drehle – Sat May 9, 1:25 am ET

It's official: our minivan is a toxic asset.

The "toxic" part I knew already. Between the catastrophic diaper failure while touring Amish country circa 2004, and the projectile vomiting episode on the way to the beach in '01, my family van has been a rolling Superfund site for years. (See the 50 worst cars of all time.)

The news flash is "asset." Thanks to the cash-for-clunkers program cooked up in Congress, our 2001 Honda Odyssey may actually be worth something - up to $4,500 if we trade it in on a new, more efficient vehicle. That works out to nearly a dollar per dent, scratch, stain and tear.

Being too rich for foreclosure, but too poor for derivatives, I had begun to think the government would never craft a bailout for me. However, prodded by crafty old John Dingell of Michigan, dean of the House of Representatives, Uncle Sam has selected me to stimulate the economy by buying a new car. This program will pay me to do it.

My first reaction to this news was shock. Sometime after I backed into a stump, but definitely before I clipped the neighbor's garage - actually it was around the time the babysitter somehow creased a perfect inch-deep furrow along the entire passenger side, headlight to brake light - I stopped thinking of the van as having any monetary value whatsoever. I resolved to drive it for at least 10 years, or until I developed a capacity for shame, whichever came first. At which point I would pay someone to take it off my hands.

Now I see the van with fresh eyes. It's no longer just a sun-bleached hulk with the rear wiper snapped off. It's a wiperless hulk worth thousands. If this is socialism, call me comrade!

The idea, I realize, is to lure the Von Drehle clan out of our gas hog and into a phone booth-sized vehicle powered by switchgrass and meditation. Unfortunately, with four kids, all in grade school, we need a minivan. So is this program for us? To find out, I took a ride on the information superhighway to www.fueleconomy.gov, which is an easy way to compare the efficiency of just about every car imaginable.

Within a few clicks, I determined that our current van averages 16 miles per gallon in the city and 23 mpg highway, which somehow averages out, according to the government, to 18 mpg. That's right on the cut-off for the program, but let's say they vote me in. Given our relatively light usage - around 8,000 miles per year - this translates to about 5.4 tons of CO2 emissions and 10.1 barrels of oil consumed each year. Could be worse, though in the category called "air pollution" the old van rates a pitiful 1 on a scale of 10 (and that's not counting the stench of fossilized chicken nuggets).

Could we do better? We're partial to Honda products, so I clicked on the 2009 Odyssey. The new model averages 20 mpg, two more than our clunker. And that is enough of an improvement under the Dingell plan to earn us $3,500. Upgrading would also cut pollution, shave half a ton from our carbon footprint and reduce our nation's dependence on foreign oil by a full barrel.

Not to mention leather seats.

Maybe we should buy American, though. I summoned up the stats for the new Chrysler Town & Country - though not without trepidation. Back in the day, Chrysler invented the minivan and made a lot of money on them, but then they had a '70s flashback and let themselves get creamed by the Japanese.

Apparently, they're back on track. According to the Edmunds.com review, the new model of Chrysler's top van is "a bona-fide contender for the Best-in-Class sash." Which sounds good - but would the sash count under "receivables" in bankruptcy court? The 4-liter T & C is virtually identical to the Odyssey in fuel efficiency and emissions, which means I could pick up $3,500 for buying one. (See the most important cars of all time.)

Of course, I'd still be paying a boatload for such a fine ride, but as a taxpayer, I'm writing regular checks to Chrysler anyway. What's one more?

To pocket the large money, the $4,500, I would need to find a buggy that averages five or more miles per gallon above our current wreck's fuel intake. But that's an easy search on this website. In a matter of seconds I discovered the Mazda 5 minivan, with manual transmission, which averages 24 miles per gallon, spews just 4.1 tons of carbon and sips a mere 7.6 barrels per year. It's a van that a guy could proudly drive to a lunch with Al Gore and the Dalai Lama, with just one downside: evidently we would have to grease the kids before squishing them into the tiny backseat.

All in all, a tough call. On the one hand, I could get a new car, reacquaint myself with some of the tax dollars I so patriotically pay, and - who knows? - maybe help out a polar bear or two. On the other hand, something about this past year has me feeling less than flush.

And there is such a thing as sentimental value. My clunker has loads of that. We raised three babies and a toddler in that old van, which means it was doomed from the start to be both filthy and loved. That trim we sheared off during our first family vacation. The crayon mural across the backseat. The permanent apple-juice glaze at the bottom of the cup holders. The energetic scribble engraved with mommy's keys in the car door. The Cinderella stickers fused to the back window. We have stories, and memories, to match every disgusting inch of that van.

I guess it's true what they say. It is hard to put a price on toxic assets.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/2009050...08599189666300

I"ve heard of this before. I just didn't know it had passed.

"If this is socialism, call me comrade!" Idiot!

ponycar17 · 05-09-2009, 11:19 PM

I know folks who disagree with the plan but who are drooling to take advantage of it... The sad part is that it will raise prices of vehicles due to skyrocketing short-term demand and inevitably not save consumers ANYTHING.

Big ugly · 05-10-2009, 01:40 AM

My van is paid off, I dont give two s***s if its old and has 232795 miles on it. I get 26 miles to the gallon in my old 91 Astro. I got my Suburban with 197286 and it is a Chevy Diesel, They can kiss me buttocks and smile.

topper · 05-10-2009, 06:46 AM

the feds would really cringe at the sight and mileage of my '93 F-150. gets maybe 13 mpg on 3% downgrade at 40 mph and wind behind at 20 mph. and that's on a good day. it looks like a refuge vehicle from the iraq war that was bombed out, but what the heck, it's still driveable and that's all i need. i don't care about apperances, just getting to where i'm going is all that's important. if the feds don't like my gas hog, they can either buy me a new truck or kiss my a$$.

Keep both barrels loaded.

oldogy · 05-10-2009, 08:29 AM

What they don't want to tell you is how much "energy" and resultant pollution it takes to build that new vehicle. Another case of social engineering.

oldogy

bcj1755 · 05-10-2009, 09:08 AM

Just for the crap of it, I went to the gov't website and checked on my car, 1988 Plymouth Gran Fury with a 318, according to the feds she gets a whopping 15 combined MPG. HAHAHA!!! I do think she gets better than that. Hmmm, should I trade-in a car that's paid for, get a credit of about three times what I paid for it, all so I can have a car payment? Nah, I think I'll keep my grannycar landboat PIMPmooooooooooooobile.

Sorry Barry, not today.

I also checked my last car, a 1998 Dodge Avenger Sport with the 2.5L V-6. They say the rating are 17 city, 25 highway, 20 combined. I just happen to still have the original window sticker from the car and gives the EPA MPG as 19 city and 28 highway.

Notice that the EPA "revised" the MPG rating of the 1985-2007 cars to make them "comparable" to the 2009 ratings. I'm sure by "revise" they mean "lower them to trick you into buying a new car with all this climate change and greenhouse gas psuedo-science BS." At least with the Dodge Avenger, this seems to be true

Blackhawk Dave · 05-10-2009, 09:31 AM

I went out and bought a new car...a 66 Fury Convertible with a 383 big block. That's my idea of new car shopping. A real RIDE!

bcj1755 · 05-10-2009, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackhawk Dave

I went out and bought a new car...a 66 Fury Convertible with a 383 big block. That's my idea of new car shopping. A real RIDE!

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice!!!

graehaven · 05-10-2009, 10:01 AM

Yeah, where's that FED money coming from, enticing new buying?

It's coming out of OUR pocket, plain and simple. Yet another raping of the taxpayer.

bcj1755 · 05-10-2009, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graehaven

Yeah, where's that FED money coming from, enticing new buying?

It's coming out of OUR pocket, plain and simple. Yet another raping of the taxpayer.

Yep. I'll just take the view of the normal Obamite. I'll go buy a new car and expect the gov't to pay it off for me. then I'll go get a house and expect the gov't to pay it off for me

Let's all get on that gov't gravytrain

I don't know who p***** me off more, the people that actually believe in socialism, or the ones that will let the socialism happen because they're too lazy and/or ignorant to stand up against it

Islandboy · 05-10-2009, 10:24 AM

Socialists out number capitalists, Individualists, Constitutionalists, Libertarians, and none can cannot match their agenda to apropriate what the capitalists have created.
How about that new Dodge Challenger? I think it's the first worthy retrocar I've seen. Sat in and Revved it, must've burned a gallon before even warm.

graehaven · 05-10-2009, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Islandboy

Socialists out number capitalists, Individualists, Constitutionalists, Libertarians, and none can cannot match their agenda to apropriate what the capitalists have created.

I don't believe that for a second.

What I do believe, is that it MAY be too late to do anything about it all at this point.

And, I think it's going to go very badly in this country, very soon.

bcj1755 · 05-10-2009, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graehaven

I don't believe that for a second.

What I do believe, is that it MAY be too late to do anything about it all at this point.

And, I think it's going to go very badly in this country, very soon.

I believe that you're right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Islandboy

Socialists out number capitalists, Individualists, Constitutionalists, Libertarians, and none can cannot match their agenda to apropriate what the capitalists have created.
How about that new Dodge Challenger? I think it's the first worthy retrocar I've seen. Sat in and Revved it, must've burned a gallon before even warm.

Ooooooh, whenever I see a new Dodge Challenger SRT-8 I get a warm fuzzy feeling...somewhere

Those are some beautiful cars. Mmmmmm.....6.1L Hemi goodness

JLA · 05-10-2009, 11:09 AM

YIKES, I wonder if they would make me pay them 4,500 bucks...

This fine specimen of hatred for the well being of our environment averages 5.4 miles per gallon, and if I were to drive it up one side of the rockies would probably average 2.1 MPG and you could probably set fire to the vapor trail

Tony22-250 · 05-10-2009, 02:03 PM

My 4Runner is payed off (in cash)and my father is a finance manager at a used car lot so i always have something to drive :P

If you dont have cash dont buy it!!! just a little life lesson there folks.

Oh and this whole paying people to buy cars bull crap is only going to hurt the car industry, and don't worry about the money we will just print more.....

glocknut · 05-10-2009, 02:15 PM

Amerika really is now a socialist nation and as someone in the Senate said recently.... Americas finer days are now behind her!

mike
gn

05-09-2009, 11:14 PM	#1
bcj1755 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: A wretched hive of scum and villiany Posts: 4,357	Feds want to pay people to buy a new car My $4,500 Lemon: Taking the Feds Up on Cash For Clunkers Time.com By DAVID VON DREHLE David Von Drehle – Sat May 9, 1:25 am ET It's official: our minivan is a toxic asset. The "toxic" part I knew already. Between the catastrophic diaper failure while touring Amish country circa 2004, and the projectile vomiting episode on the way to the beach in '01, my family van has been a rolling Superfund site for years. (See the 50 worst cars of all time.) The news flash is "asset." Thanks to the cash-for-clunkers program cooked up in Congress, our 2001 Honda Odyssey may actually be worth something - up to $4,500 if we trade it in on a new, more efficient vehicle. That works out to nearly a dollar per dent, scratch, stain and tear. Being too rich for foreclosure, but too poor for derivatives, I had begun to think the government would never craft a bailout for me. However, prodded by crafty old John Dingell of Michigan, dean of the House of Representatives, Uncle Sam has selected me to stimulate the economy by buying a new car. This program will pay me to do it. My first reaction to this news was shock. Sometime after I backed into a stump, but definitely before I clipped the neighbor's garage - actually it was around the time the babysitter somehow creased a perfect inch-deep furrow along the entire passenger side, headlight to brake light - I stopped thinking of the van as having any monetary value whatsoever. I resolved to drive it for at least 10 years, or until I developed a capacity for shame, whichever came first. At which point I would pay someone to take it off my hands. Now I see the van with fresh eyes. It's no longer just a sun-bleached hulk with the rear wiper snapped off. It's a wiperless hulk worth thousands. If this is socialism, call me comrade! The idea, I realize, is to lure the Von Drehle clan out of our gas hog and into a phone booth-sized vehicle powered by switchgrass and meditation. Unfortunately, with four kids, all in grade school, we need a minivan. So is this program for us? To find out, I took a ride on the information superhighway to www.fueleconomy.gov, which is an easy way to compare the efficiency of just about every car imaginable. Within a few clicks, I determined that our current van averages 16 miles per gallon in the city and 23 mpg highway, which somehow averages out, according to the government, to 18 mpg. That's right on the cut-off for the program, but let's say they vote me in. Given our relatively light usage - around 8,000 miles per year - this translates to about 5.4 tons of CO2 emissions and 10.1 barrels of oil consumed each year. Could be worse, though in the category called "air pollution" the old van rates a pitiful 1 on a scale of 10 (and that's not counting the stench of fossilized chicken nuggets). Could we do better? We're partial to Honda products, so I clicked on the 2009 Odyssey. The new model averages 20 mpg, two more than our clunker. And that is enough of an improvement under the Dingell plan to earn us $3,500. Upgrading would also cut pollution, shave half a ton from our carbon footprint and reduce our nation's dependence on foreign oil by a full barrel. Not to mention leather seats. Maybe we should buy American, though. I summoned up the stats for the new Chrysler Town & Country - though not without trepidation. Back in the day, Chrysler invented the minivan and made a lot of money on them, but then they had a '70s flashback and let themselves get creamed by the Japanese. Apparently, they're back on track. According to the Edmunds.com review, the new model of Chrysler's top van is "a bona-fide contender for the Best-in-Class sash." Which sounds good - but would the sash count under "receivables" in bankruptcy court? The 4-liter T & C is virtually identical to the Odyssey in fuel efficiency and emissions, which means I could pick up $3,500 for buying one. (See the most important cars of all time.) Of course, I'd still be paying a boatload for such a fine ride, but as a taxpayer, I'm writing regular checks to Chrysler anyway. What's one more? To pocket the large money, the $4,500, I would need to find a buggy that averages five or more miles per gallon above our current wreck's fuel intake. But that's an easy search on this website. In a matter of seconds I discovered the Mazda 5 minivan, with manual transmission, which averages 24 miles per gallon, spews just 4.1 tons of carbon and sips a mere 7.6 barrels per year. It's a van that a guy could proudly drive to a lunch with Al Gore and the Dalai Lama, with just one downside: evidently we would have to grease the kids before squishing them into the tiny backseat. All in all, a tough call. On the one hand, I could get a new car, reacquaint myself with some of the tax dollars I so patriotically pay, and - who knows? - maybe help out a polar bear or two. On the other hand, something about this past year has me feeling less than flush. And there is such a thing as sentimental value. My clunker has loads of that. We raised three babies and a toddler in that old van, which means it was doomed from the start to be both filthy and loved. That trim we sheared off during our first family vacation. The crayon mural across the backseat. The permanent apple-juice glaze at the bottom of the cup holders. The energetic scribble engraved with mommy's keys in the car door. The Cinderella stickers fused to the back window. We have stories, and memories, to match every disgusting inch of that van. I guess it's true what they say. It is hard to put a price on toxic assets. http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/2009050...08599189666300 I"ve heard of this before. I just didn't know it had passed. "If this is socialism, call me comrade!" Idiot! __________________ History is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace, and revolution continue on forever. Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges - Cicero If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. - Samuel Adams -->

05-09-2009, 11:19 PM	#2
ponycar17 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: South Carolina Contributor Posts: 4,884	Re: Feds want to pay people to buy a new car I know folks who disagree with the plan but who are drooling to take advantage of it... The sad part is that it will raise prices of vehicles due to skyrocketing short-term demand and inevitably not save consumers ANYTHING. __________________ Arm yourself with intellectual Ammunition! Gunfacts 5.1 Myth-Busting Facts JustFacts.com on Gun Control Stopping Power, the Downloadable Book

05-10-2009, 01:40 AM	#3
Big ugly Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Knoxville Tennessee Contributor Posts: 2,603	Re: Feds want to pay people to buy a new car My van is paid off, I dont give two s***s if its old and has 232795 miles on it. I get 26 miles to the gallon in my old 91 Astro. I got my Suburban with 197286 and it is a Chevy Diesel, They can kiss me buttocks and smile. __________________ "You say the Devil made do it with a smile. Raisin' hell and howlin at the moon. Well I'm gonna put your @$$ back in line. I'm gonna scare the Devil out of you." BlackBerry Smoke Song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R513dA4peMg Nothing is "proof" against a truly talented fool. Swanshot

05-10-2009, 06:46 AM	#4
topper Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: deep in the woods Posts: 748	Re: Feds want to pay people to buy a new car the feds would really cringe at the sight and mileage of my '93 F-150. gets maybe 13 mpg on 3% downgrade at 40 mph and wind behind at 20 mph. and that's on a good day. it looks like a refuge vehicle from the iraq war that was bombed out, but what the heck, it's still driveable and that's all i need. i don't care about apperances, just getting to where i'm going is all that's important. if the feds don't like my gas hog, they can either buy me a new truck or kiss my a$$. Keep both barrels loaded.

05-10-2009, 08:29 AM	#5
oldogy V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: East TN Posts: 309	Re: Feds want to pay people to buy a new car What they don't want to tell you is how much "energy" and resultant pollution it takes to build that new vehicle. Another case of social engineering. oldogy __________________ ue"]If gun laws in fact worked, the sponsors of this type of legislation should have no difficulty drawing upon long lists of examples of crime rates reduced by such legislation. That they cannot do so after a century and a half of trying -- " Senator Orrin G. Hatch (R-Utah)[/COLOR] Last edited by oldogy; 05-10-2009 at 08:30 AM..

05-10-2009, 09:08 AM	#6
bcj1755 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: A wretched hive of scum and villiany Posts: 4,357	Re: Feds want to pay people to buy a new car Just for the crap of it, I went to the gov't website and checked on my car, 1988 Plymouth Gran Fury with a 318, according to the feds she gets a whopping 15 combined MPG. HAHAHA!!! I do think she gets better than that. Hmmm, should I trade-in a car that's paid for, get a credit of about three times what I paid for it, all so I can have a car payment? Nah, I think I'll keep my grannycar landboat PIMPmooooooooooooobile. Sorry Barry, not today. I also checked my last car, a 1998 Dodge Avenger Sport with the 2.5L V-6. They say the rating are 17 city, 25 highway, 20 combined. I just happen to still have the original window sticker from the car and gives the EPA MPG as 19 city and 28 highway. Notice that the EPA "revised" the MPG rating of the 1985-2007 cars to make them "comparable" to the 2009 ratings. I'm sure by "revise" they mean "lower them to trick you into buying a new car with all this climate change and greenhouse gas psuedo-science BS." At least with the Dodge Avenger, this seems to be true __________________ History is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace, and revolution continue on forever. Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges - Cicero If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. - Samuel Adams Last edited by bcj1755; 05-10-2009 at 09:19 AM..

05-10-2009, 09:31 AM	#7
Blackhawk Dave Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Denton, TX Posts: 593	Re: Feds want to pay people to buy a new car I went out and bought a new car...a 66 Fury Convertible with a 383 big block. That's my idea of new car shopping. A real RIDE!

05-10-2009, 10:01 AM	#9
graehaven Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 2,853	Re: Feds want to pay people to buy a new car Yeah, where's that FED money coming from, enticing new buying? It's coming out of OUR pocket, plain and simple. Yet another raping of the taxpayer. __________________ The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." - Thomas Jefferson RESISTANCE IS FEUDAL... PREPARE TO SERVE.

05-10-2009, 10:24 AM	#11
Islandboy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Off the right coast Posts: 676	Re: Feds want to pay people to buy a new car Socialists out number capitalists, Individualists, Constitutionalists, Libertarians, and none can cannot match their agenda to apropriate what the capitalists have created. How about that new Dodge Challenger? I think it's the first worthy retrocar I've seen. Sat in and Revved it, must've burned a gallon before even warm. __________________ A politician can do only that which the law provides,but, a private citizen can do anything that the law does not prohibit. -AR. When they came and got me, I went Peaceful.

05-10-2009, 11:09 AM	#14
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,315	Re: Feds want to pay people to buy a new car YIKES, I wonder if they would make me pay them 4,500 bucks... This fine specimen of hatred for the well being of our environment averages 5.4 miles per gallon, and if I were to drive it up one side of the rockies would probably average 2.1 MPG and you could probably set fire to the vapor trail Attached Images __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

05-10-2009, 02:03 PM	#15
Tony22-250 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Snellville, GA Posts: 1,146	Re: Feds want to pay people to buy a new car My 4Runner is payed off (in cash)and my father is a finance manager at a used car lot so i always have something to drive :P If you dont have cash dont buy it!!! just a little life lesson there folks. Oh and this whole paying people to buy cars bull crap is only going to hurt the car industry, and don't worry about the money we will just print more..... __________________ Bullets change governments far surer than votes. The most powerful weapon you can buy isn't a .50 caliber. It's a Senate Seat.... "When injustice becomes law, then resistance becomes duty." Thomas Jefferson

05-10-2009, 02:15 PM	#16
glocknut Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: THE FORUM MASCOTT... Posts: 12,482	Re: Feds want to pay people to buy a new car Amerika really is now a socialist nation and as someone in the Senate said recently.... Americas finer days are now behind her! mike gn __________________ Where O where are you tonight? Why have you gone and left me alone? I searched to world over and a thought i found true love... You met another and PTThhh you were gone....