Pastor says "Bring guns" - The Firearms Forum

armedandsafe · 06-04-2009, 10:11 PM

That is itself is nice to hear but the report has a comment which really set me off.

http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=10473040

Quote:

recently, church shootings have been in the headlines. Last Sunday, Kansas abortion Dr. George Tiller was shot and killed while ushering at his church. In March, an Illinois pastor was killed and two parishioners injured after a gunman opened fire during Sunday services. In July 2008, a gunman killed two people at a church youth performance in Knoxville, Tennessee. Despite this news, Ken Pagano, pastor of New Bethel Church in Valley Station, is encouraging people to bring their guns to church on June 27.

Later in the story, there is this:

Quote:

People can come into the church wearing their gun as long as the weapon is unloaded and in a secure holster

Talk about reverse logic!

Pops

21bravo · 06-04-2009, 10:16 PM

carrying an UNLOADED firearm is like having a screen door on a submarine.... or wiping before ya go #2... it just dont make good sense. .....and a "secure" holster..? just an idea, i may be wrong but, isnt that what holsters do?

keep the sidearm secure....?

johnlives4christ · 06-04-2009, 11:04 PM

me and my friends have a saying "what good is an unloaded gun" basically it defeats the purpose of owning a gun if you have it unloaded

OBrien · 06-05-2009, 12:07 AM

The pastor also said that people with concealed carry permits can carry a "hot" weapon but open carry would be a cold carry due to insurance and safety purposes. I think it is a good thing to allow firearms to be in the public eye in a responsible sense. If it was not for insurance purposes for the church then I would be upset about the cold carry but it is not the churches fault that they can not afford to cover a "hot" carry. At a minimum it is a step in the right direction. But that is my personal opinion.

armedandsafe · 06-05-2009, 12:24 AM

I agree that insurance coverage is important. The pastor can't put his congregation and church in that situation without full agreement of all members and a full discussion of "what if."

The report I read (scanned quickly) I didn't see the part about concealed.

What really caught my attention, though was the reporter's mention of several church shootings and then saying "Despite this" the pastor wanted the congregation to come armed. Sheeeese!

Pops

OBrien · 06-05-2009, 12:37 AM

Well I never read anything but watched the cnn clip and and the pastor said it on there. Now if MSM put it into print that would be a different story. I am pretty sure there is another thread on here somewhere about it with the link. But either way it is a step in the right direction. A baby step forward is better than any step backward or no step at all.

EDIT: This is the thread http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=61848

armedandsafe · 06-05-2009, 12:55 AM

I forgot to put the link to the story I read when I first posted. I just put it up in an edit.

DUH!

Pops

Tony22-250 · 06-05-2009, 03:13 AM

Hmm well i guess they can throw the guns at who ever decides to shoot up the church! Knowing me i would probably walk in sit down and get many stares because i have an AR15 slung around my shoulder

hey its open cary and i dont think seeing that would inspire anybody to attack the congregation unless they are a complete idiot! Also i dont think that any one would have the cajones to ask me to leave the AR at the door!

They said nothing about rifles being loaded or unloaded or in a secure holster! Im the kind of person that thinks outside the box and finds loop holes like that!

Ursus · 06-05-2009, 06:48 AM

Quote:
People can come into the church wearing their gun as long as the weapon is unloaded and in a secure holster...
...so a SOB can come and shop guns around?

mrkirker · 06-05-2009, 07:52 AM

In July 2008, a gunman killed two people at a church youth performance in Knoxville, Tennessee.

The shotgun carrying gunman was subdued by un-armed parishners.

Do we have any men (or women) 'of the cloth' on the Forum? What is your take on armed congregations?

45nut · 06-05-2009, 08:42 AM

mrkirker,

While I'm not clergy, I am on the safety team at my church. Those of us on the team with a CHL can carry concealed but without direct authority from said church. The reason is again, insurance related. If they have an armed security guard the insurance premium goes out of the roof.

We can carry, but we're own our on legally so to speak. Any action we take is our sole responsibility. Several on the team are armed, but my Pastor doesn't care to know who we are. He is for it, but can't sanction it for insurance reasons. In Texas, the church has to post a no concealed carry sign. If that is not posted, you are legal. I carry even when I'm not on duty.

mrkirker · 06-05-2009, 09:07 AM

Wow, I just realized that I am probalby guilty of 'hi-jacking' a thread!

I apologize!

4EvrLearning · 06-05-2009, 09:16 AM

It seemed a relevant question to me, mrkirker.... but what do I know? I'm a hair-flippin' hijacker from way back! ~

~

islenos · 06-05-2009, 01:18 PM

I once made fun of an Air Force SP for not having a loaded weapon while on flight line patrol. He then demonstrated the fastest loading and cocking of an M16 that I have ever seen in my life.

I have since never underestimated someone with an unload weapon.

Mr. Nameless · 06-05-2009, 08:08 PM

I have a custom holster for my Kimber that when it's in i can have it unloaded but in the drawing process pull up a magazine and slide it in and snap the slide shut. My best time was 1.56 seconds, or was it 2.56, one or the other. It was still pretty fast for me.

ampaterry · 06-06-2009, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrkirker

In July 2008, a gunman killed two people at a church youth performance in Knoxville, Tennessee.

The shotgun carrying gunman was subdued by un-armed parishners.

Do we have any men (or women) 'of the cloth' on the Forum? What is your take on armed congregations?

I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with an armed congregation. There are several in my congregation with conceiled cary permits that are routinely armed. I have upon occasion of special circumstance been armed myself while in the pulpit, although I am not usually so. VERY few have ever expressed any discomfort at this over the 25 years I have preached here.

thewigs3 · 06-08-2009, 10:50 AM

Don't ask, don't tell
What he may not know is there are likely 1/2 of them that have been cc since they started going there.

06-04-2009, 11:04 PM	#3
johnlives4christ Former Guest Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,828	Re: Pastor says "Bring guns" me and my friends have a saying "what good is an unloaded gun" basically it defeats the purpose of owning a gun if you have it unloaded

06-05-2009, 12:07 AM	#4
OBrien Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Bangor Maine Posts: 554	Re: Pastor says "Bring guns" The pastor also said that people with concealed carry permits can carry a "hot" weapon but open carry would be a cold carry due to insurance and safety purposes. I think it is a good thing to allow firearms to be in the public eye in a responsible sense. If it was not for insurance purposes for the church then I would be upset about the cold carry but it is not the churches fault that they can not afford to cover a "hot" carry. At a minimum it is a step in the right direction. But that is my personal opinion.

06-05-2009, 12:24 AM	#5
armedandsafe Former Guest Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Moses Lake, WA Posts: 10,344	Re: Pastor says "Bring guns" I agree that insurance coverage is important. The pastor can't put his congregation and church in that situation without full agreement of all members and a full discussion of "what if." The report I read (scanned quickly) I didn't see the part about concealed. What really caught my attention, though was the reporter's mention of several church shootings and then saying "Despite this" the pastor wanted the congregation to come armed. Sheeeese! Pops

06-05-2009, 12:37 AM	#6
OBrien Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Bangor Maine Posts: 554	Re: Pastor says "Bring guns" Well I never read anything but watched the cnn clip and and the pastor said it on there. Now if MSM put it into print that would be a different story. I am pretty sure there is another thread on here somewhere about it with the link. But either way it is a step in the right direction. A baby step forward is better than any step backward or no step at all. EDIT: This is the thread http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=61848 Last edited by OBrien; 06-05-2009 at 12:38 AM..

06-05-2009, 12:55 AM	#7
armedandsafe Former Guest Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Moses Lake, WA Posts: 10,344	Re: Pastor says "Bring guns" I forgot to put the link to the story I read when I first posted. I just put it up in an edit. DUH! Pops

06-04-2009, 10:16 PM	#2
21bravo Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: wilkes county, nc Posts: 790	Re: Pastor says "Bring guns" carrying an UNLOADED firearm is like having a screen door on a submarine.... or wiping before ya go #2... it just dont make good sense. .....and a "secure" holster..? just an idea, i may be wrong but, isnt that what holsters do? keep the sidearm secure....? __________________ "BIG MOMMA BRAVO" If everything seems to be going well, you obviously do not know what the hell is going on --"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crime." - Thomas Jefferson

06-05-2009, 03:13 AM	#8
Tony22-250 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Snellville, GA Posts: 1,146	Re: Pastor says "Bring guns" Hmm well i guess they can throw the guns at who ever decides to shoot up the church! Knowing me i would probably walk in sit down and get many stares because i have an AR15 slung around my shoulder hey its open cary and i dont think seeing that would inspire anybody to attack the congregation unless they are a complete idiot! Also i dont think that any one would have the cajones to ask me to leave the AR at the door! They said nothing about rifles being loaded or unloaded or in a secure holster! Im the kind of person that thinks outside the box and finds loop holes like that! __________________ Bullets change governments far surer than votes. The most powerful weapon you can buy isn't a .50 caliber. It's a Senate Seat.... "When injustice becomes law, then resistance becomes duty." Thomas Jefferson Last edited by Tony22-250; 06-05-2009 at 03:18 AM..

06-05-2009, 06:48 AM	#9
Ursus Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: El Salvador, Central America. Posts: 1,030	Re: Pastor says "Bring guns" Quote: People can come into the church wearing their gun as long as the weapon is unloaded and in a secure holster... ...so a SOB can come and shop guns around? __________________ SI VIS PACEM, PARABELLUM.

06-05-2009, 07:52 AM	#10
mrkirker Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3,067	Re: Pastor says "Bring guns" In July 2008, a gunman killed two people at a church youth performance in Knoxville, Tennessee. The shotgun carrying gunman was subdued by un-armed parishners. Do we have any men (or women) 'of the cloth' on the Forum? What is your take on armed congregations? __________________ *I don't know if dogs have a heaven, but there will be dogs in mine.*

06-05-2009, 08:42 AM	#11
45nut Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,428	Re: Pastor says "Bring guns" mrkirker, While I'm not clergy, I am on the safety team at my church. Those of us on the team with a CHL can carry concealed but without direct authority from said church. The reason is again, insurance related. If they have an armed security guard the insurance premium goes out of the roof. We can carry, but we're own our on legally so to speak. Any action we take is our sole responsibility. Several on the team are armed, but my Pastor doesn't care to know who we are. He is for it, but can't sanction it for insurance reasons. In Texas, the church has to post a no concealed carry sign. If that is not posted, you are legal. I carry even when I'm not on duty. __________________ A gun is a tool, Marian; no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that. Shane Nemo me impune lacesset We recall the case of the Shoshone war band which showed up complete with one 30-30 rifle per man the week after Pearl Harbor, and simply wanted to have the enemy pointed out to them. "We hear there's a war going on and we want to go fight it." Jeff Cooper *KCCO*

06-05-2009, 09:07 AM	#12
mrkirker Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3,067	Re: Pastor says "Bring guns" Wow, I just realized that I am probalby guilty of 'hi-jacking' a thread! I apologize! __________________ *I don't know if dogs have a heaven, but there will be dogs in mine.*

06-05-2009, 09:16 AM	#13
4EvrLearning Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Left Coast Posts: 1,449	Re: Pastor says "Bring guns" It seemed a relevant question to me, mrkirker.... but what do I know? I'm a hair-flippin' hijacker from way back! ~~ __________________ *"Until God is finished with me, I am immortal." Jonathan Edwards, American Theologian (1703-1758)*

06-05-2009, 01:18 PM	#14
islenos Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: West Texas Posts: 1,244	Re: Pastor says "Bring guns" I once made fun of an Air Force SP for not having a loaded weapon while on flight line patrol. He then demonstrated the fastest loading and cocking of an M16 that I have ever seen in my life. I have since never underestimated someone with an unload weapon. __________________ Last edited by islenos; 06-05-2009 at 08:25 PM..

06-05-2009, 08:08 PM	#15
Mr. Nameless Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Coast of N.C. Posts: 1,264	Re: Pastor says "Bring guns" I have a custom holster for my Kimber that when it's in i can have it unloaded but in the drawing process pull up a magazine and slide it in and snap the slide shut. My best time was 1.56 seconds, or was it 2.56, one or the other. It was still pretty fast for me. __________________ Signed ~BMP Two classifications of terrorist dead and not dead enough

06-08-2009, 10:50 AM	#17
thewigs3 Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Central Florida Posts: 7	Re: Pastor says "Bring guns" Don't ask, don't tell What he may not know is there are likely 1/2 of them that have been cc since they started going there. __________________ (my first) Beretta 92FS 9mm Inox (my carry) SF XD 9mm SC (my cheaper ammo gun) Ruger 22 Hunter III