Looking at getting my first centerfire rifle, need advice

[Idempotent]

Greetings everyone.

I'm currently thinking about buying a centerfire fire. The only gun I've ever owned is a Remington Sportmaster 512, which my dad bought for me back when I was a teenager. It shoots .22 LR, and I still enjoy it, I'm just looking for something bigger (you know the feeling). I've only ever shot at a range and that's likely what I'll continue doing in the future, but if I were ever to, say, get into hunting, clearly a .22 LR won't cut it.

I'm looking for something that looks like a classic rifle - nice wooden stock and gunsteel, none of this modern plastic or camo pattern. I'm pretty impressed with both the Remington 700 and 7600. I don't have any personal experience with either of them, but the Remington 700 does seem to be quite popular. I haven't heard as much about the 7600; is it as accurate? It just looks like a really beautiful rifle to me.

I've also looked at some rifles by Savage, Mossberg, and Weatherby (the Weatherby Vanguard Sporter looks nice and the price is right). I just don't really know how they compare to the Remingtons. Hence, my need for your advice.

Basically, my qualifications are: Accurate, good for bench shooting, looks of a classic rifle, ability to mount a scope, and availability in a common cartridge size. I'm not too picky about the cartridge; anything readily available, like .308, .30-06, .270, .243, maybe 7mm-08, etc., is fine. The cheaper per round, the better The largest game for hunting we have around these parts is whitetail deer, so even if I were to get into that, any of these cartridges would be more than suitable.

Thanks everyone!

[glocknut]

Bolt action is not exactly my thing so to speak. But i have heard there are a few different surplus military rifles out there in many different calibers that are pretty accurate.

You say you would like less expensive ammo and that is common? If it were me...i'd get a rifle in 7.62x39. Ammo is very affordable in that caliber. .308 would be better but ammo is arround $1 a shot...and up if you get premium ammo... all worth it but definately more expensive. If you want to hunt with it i would think that 7.62x39 would make a great choice.

There are other calibers out there that they have mil surp ammo for as well.

mike
gn

[Idempotent]

Well, if a prospective autoloader was as accurate as a bolt action, I wouldn't mind getting it, but I don't think that's the case? I'd love to be told I'm wrong, though.

Considering there's a >75% probability that this rifle will only ever be shot at the range, bolt action does make sense, right? At $1 a round I'm going to take my time and line each shot up perfectly Autoloading doesn't matter so much in that situation, but accuracy sure does.

Also, I want it to look like a proper hunting/target rifle, not like a military-style rifle. There's a bit of a stigma associated with "assault rifles" around these parts. Since I'll likely only ever use it at the range, I just don't need that.

[Big ugly]

Hit your local pawnshops up, there are several out there you can get your fingers on that would be right up your alley. Plenty of bolt actions floating around.

[johnlives4christ]

hello idempotent, welcome to the forum. sounds like you've got a pretty sound idea of what you want. you mentioned the remington 700, it is an excellent gun, i have owned only one, in 7mm remington magnum caliber. you also mention a weatherby vanguard, never shot one of those, but i did own a weatherby mark V deluxe in 270 weatherby magnum for a while, it was a head turner. i also had a remington 760 bdl in 30-06. it's basically the same as the 7600, just an older version. as far as accuracy goes, most modern rifles are capable of 1MOA, thats 1" at 100 yards. dont overlook a used gun though, the remington i mentioned, i bought it used from a friend, then traded it into a gunshop, and the guy had 325 or 350 on it if i recall correctly. you might be able to get a good used bolt gun, with a scope already attached for the same price as a new gun with no scope or rings. never shot one myself, but i've heard good things about a savage 110, and heard they where quite affordable. anyways, i hope you find a rifle that suits your tastes, and is accurate and reliable. and again, welcome to the forum.

~john

[carver]

Originally Posted by Idempotent

Well, if a prospective autoloader was as accurate as a bolt action, I wouldn't mind getting it, but I don't think that's the case? I'd love to be told I'm wrong, though.

Considering there's a >75% probability that this rifle will only ever be shot at the range, bolt action does make sense, right? At $1 a round I'm going to take my time and line each shot up perfectly Autoloading doesn't matter so much in that situation, but accuracy sure does.

Also, I want it to look like a proper hunting/target rifle, not like a military-style rifle. There's a bit of a stigma associated with "assault rifles" around these parts. Since I'll likely only ever use it at the range, I just don't need that.

Welcome to the forum! By nature the bolt action rifle will be a little more accurate than the semi-auto rifle. The pawn shop idea is a good one! An assault rifle is a rifle that has a select fire mechinism on it, that allows it to go from semi-auto to full auto, these are guns that the public just can't go out and buy, you need a Federal stamp to purchase one. You won't see one on your local range! I personally like the 30.06 round. It is very versital, and ammo is manufactured in many different bullet weights. From 55 grain sabots all the way up to 300 grains +.

[Idempotent]

Was it unfair of me to not include .223 Rem in the prospective cartridge sizes? It might be a bit underpowered compared to the others, but it is a bit cheaper to send downrange, right? All the rest of the listed ones are about $1 per round, while the .223 Rem is cheaper, right?

If all I'm going to be hunting is paper, .223 is fine.

[Sandman]

.223 is probably the most enjoyable to shoot. Virtually no recoil and accurate as well. If you think you might want to hunt with this rifle, check your state regulations. Some states do not allow deer hunting with any .22 caliber bullet. Where I live, any centerfire is legal, so the .223 is okay.

Any of the calibers you mention will do what you are talking about using it for with no problems. Not having shot anything bigger than .22LR, you might not want to jump straight to the .30-06 or .308 right off of the bat. The recoil in those calibers is not particularly bad, but it is a big step up from what you are used to. The other calibers (.243, .270 & 7mm-08) will be less recoil, work great on the range, and still plenty big enough for deer.

My personal favorite bolt action is Ruger. Very good quality rifles at a reasonable price. However, you won't go wrong with any of the brands you mention. Savage in particular is another one where you get very high quality at a good price.

[Idempotent]

As far as I can tell, the only relevant Maryland regulation is the following:

Rifles used for deer and bear hunting must use ammunition developing a muzzle energy of at least 1,200 foot pounds.

(Source)

As long as I stick to the heavier loadings for .223 Rem, it looks like it would be fine. And the bullet has to have an expanding point, but that shouldn't be hard to find. That's what you'd want for hunting anyway.

Although if I seriously do want to consider hunting, I think I would prefer to use a slightly larger caliber. I would hate to badly wound a deer instead of killing it. Although .223 does seem like an ideal varminting round.

Oh, and thanks to everyone for welcoming me to the forum.

[308 at my gate]

If you ever plan on hunting large game like deer skip the 223. Stay with the 270 to 30-06 range. The remington 700 is the way togo. It is an excellant rifle and has the look that you want. The model 700 BDL has a nice finish and the bolt action is time proven. I have the 700 action in 222, 223, 22-250, 6mm Rem, 25-06, 270, 308, 30-06. 7mm rem mag, 300win mag, 7mmstw, and 8mm rem mag. So far I have used the 6mm, 25-06, 270, 308, and 7mm rem mag in hunting situations. They have never let me down. I have also used the 222, 223, and 22-250 out on some praire dogs shoots.

[USMC-03]

My recommendation is go to the local gun show and find a good Springfield or Mauser, still in military caliber and stripper clip capable, that has been sporterized. It's easy enough to find a decent one for $200 to $300 that will be a good shooter and can reach out several hundred yards. I also think that new shooters should learn on open sights, preferably a rear aperture that adjustable for both elevation and windage. Most of all, beginners should definitely attend a class or two that focuses safety on rifle marksmanship.

[cycloneman]

You have a good bit of advice here. I like the 308 becuase it is very popular. Lots of different flavor ammo to choose from. I have a 7mm08 and would tell you to stay away from it. Oh i love the rifle but if you dont reload you will find that ammo is harder to come by. I like the 700. One thing to consider when you buy a rifle is that you are buying the barrel. The barrel is where the magic happens. The length of the bbl gives you velocity. I have a 308 that can outshoot some 270's in speed. The action (bolt, or auto,) the trigger type, the stock, the glass all help you get the shot off. The bbl is where the magic is. Having said that I always op for the longest and heavest bbl I can get or that will do the job I want it to. Give you an ex, I have a 308 with a 17" bbl that will shoot 2400 fps and I have one w/ 26" bbl that will shoot the same bullet at 2900 fps. Just something to think about.
Good luck and let us know what you get.

[bntyhntr6975]

I have to recommend a .308 in a Rem 700. May not be the best in everyone's eyes, but its my opinion. Theres not much in this country you can't hunt with it, and not many better choices for range time. Extremely versatile round, too. A lot of surplus ammo is junk, some is good though. You didnt mention the expected range you plan to shoot. My ole .30-30 (mod 94) is a blast to take out and shoot, but for precision shot placement, it wont do it. I've taken several deer with it (so has most people) but I don't use it for extended range.

[Idempotent]

The recommendation to go to a gun show sounds like a good one. From everything I've read so far online, that sounds like my best bet for getting a good deal. There are also some gun stores around here that sell used guns that I'll probably check out. I'm not sure if a pawn shop will work; around here they tend to focus heavily on jewelry, musical instruments, that sort of thing. Plus they don't quite feel safe to walk into.

Regarding 308 at my gate's suggestion of a Remington 700 BDL, it doesn't look like that rifle has a scope mount? It comes with iron sights at least. The 700 CDL, which is otherwise pretty much the same thing, comes with a scope mount but no iron sights. I don't know a lot about these kinds of things - can a scope be easily outfitted on a BDL? Ideally I'd like the ability to use both scoped and non-scoped sights, depending on the range I'm going for on that day.

The only shooting range I really go to maxes out at 100 yards, which is a decent challenge with iron sights but probably not so much with a scope. If the scope makes it "too easy", I might have to find a longer range somewhere around here.

[tundra01]

The 700 remingtons are nice and very accurate in bolt action like you had mentioned. I also like the model 70 Winchester. And for a single shot that is highly accurate and eye catching I would suggest the ruger #1. If most of the shooting is at the range go with a 223 or 22-250, easy on the shoulder. I don't go to the range very often. For a multi-purpose caliber I like the 30-06. This is not a caliber that you want to shoot an hour at a time though. Good luck in your decision and please be safe!

[308 at my gate]

The Model 700 BDL is very easy to put scope bases and rings on. It is already drilled and tapped. Just mount with a little locktite.

[Lotsdragon]

760 or 7600 in 30.06 would be what I recommend, you can get cheap milsurp ammo and buy good hunting rounds for it as well, I have one 7600 and a 7400 in .06 and being the lazy bastid I am I prefer the 7400. If you think that the recoil is too much you can buy sabot rounds that relieve alot of the recoil. Now if you want to hunt the larger game you can get good old remington core lokt 180 grn, all using the same weapon. Ok that being said.
I myself use a marlin 336 35 remington to hunt white tails with cause the brush is so heavy around here.When you can find them they are usually 300-350 used.

[312shooter]

I have to tell you my latest experience with a winchester model 70 in 270wsm really impressed the heck out of me. A very spicy 3400 fps in a 27 cal bullet is loads of fun. I own a remingotn 700 in .308 and the 270 wsm is just that little different cartrige that not everyone is out shooting, its just simply a treat. This would play to your advantage in these days of ammo shortages as well.

[DKA]

Remington 700 is probably the best all around Rifle on the market today, have 7 of them and 2 Weatherby Vanguards, which are fine, but 700 has been proven by time. Caliber is another thing, will get a lot of different suggestions, but it does not make a lot of difference, because in a year or so, you will buy one of the calibers that you did not purchase now. I personally like my 25 06 and am sure other like other calibers, but 25 06 has mild recoil, flat shooting accurate Rifle.

[Idempotent]

I doubt I'll buy another rifle in a year's time. I'm not looking to accumulate a large number of firearms. One plinker and one serious-caliber will be enough. Here's why. I'm 23, still quite fresh out of college, and I live with two friends in a rented house, and we'll probably move every year for awhile. Plus, the money that I do have I'm trying to save up to eventually buy a house of my own. Once I get my own house and settle down, then I might end up getting some more rifles, but until then, I'll be rather limited in number.

Based on all the advice here (and thank you to everyone!) I think I'll look for a used Remington Model 700, first at some local gun shops, and if I can't find one there, I'll look up the next gun show in the area (Virginia probably has some good gun shows, right?). If I get lucky I'll find a Model 700 that already has a scope attached. Oh, and I do still like the 7600, but I haven't heard nearly as much about it as I have the 700.

[Txquadhunter]

If you do want to check out a semi-auto look the Browning BAR. I've got one in 7mm mag. It'll holld it's own group shooting with bolt actions

[FTK87]

Just to thorw my name into the hat, I own a Howa M1500 in .223, it is basically same gun as Weatherby Vanguard (kinda like Chevy and GMC) it is a really sweet rifle. I picked it up new at a gun show earlier this year with a nice scope and rings for $600. Then only thing I don't particularly like in it is that the twist rate of the barrel is only 1 in 12, thus limiting you to average weight bullets. It would be fine for deer IF you get good placement. It is a blast to shoot at the range, and I havn't had any problems with it.

Kyle

[RunningOnMT]

Unless you are sold on a bolt action you might want to consider a lever action. You don't find a more classic look than those. You can get a Marlin 336 wih scope in 30/30 cal in the $450.00 price range. If you need a stronger cal than that there is the Marlin .308 express.

One thing that's nice is that you get a larger mag capacity in lever guns over bolt actions and no one will ever accuse you of having an assault rifle.

[fyimo]

It all depends on your goal with the rifle and if it is hunting then you need to check your states regulations. In Colorado the smallest legal big game caliber is .24 thus eliminating the 223 and 22-250.

If you are looking for a classic rifle with wood a Remington, Winchester, Browning, Ruger, Sako, and Weatherby Vanguard all make great guns and you wouldn't go wrong with any of them. The Vanguard is a Howa barreled action and an excellent shooter. Howa also made actions for the S&W 1500 series in the 80's and 90's and my son has a S&W model 1500 in 270 and it's an excellent shooter.

Also don't be afraid to buy a used rifle as it's nearly impossible to wear out a modern rifle. I bought a mint stainess Browning A bolt with a pretty wood stock last week for $500 with scope mount and rings. I don't think more then 2 boxes of shells have been through the gun. Times are tough right now and people are having to sell stuff they don't when times are good. There are a lot of great guns coming onto the market now that the post election gun buying surge is over. Prices are also falling because of the surge being over. The ammo prices are still high and ammo is still scarce so hopefully that will improve in the near future.

[oscarmayer]

carver .... that is the gov't definition of an assault rifle . but in actuality a brick can be an assault weapon as can an enfield or mauser bolt action. and in order to drum up a negitive image they consider ak's ar's and any military looking firearm as an assualt weapon.