Geo. Custer biography?

[mrkirker]

Have just finished reading ‘To Appomattox’ by Burke Davis (IBSN 0-915992-17-5) and find Geo. Custer’s behavior during the final days of the conflict abominable.

Is there a factual biography on this man available that anyone would care to recommend? I don’t want the ‘glossed over’ “Boy’s Life – American Hero” version, because I don’t that that rings true. (I understand that his widow was able to 'spin' his career into a more favorable light, and I seek to avoid books of that genre.)
Thank you, for your recommendation.
Johnny

[Teejay9]

I read one a couple of times. It mixes facts with action, which makes for good reading. "Custer: Cavalier in Buckskin" by Robert M. Utley, can be found on Amazon and I imagine other places as well. You might like this one. It doesn't give the usual "American hero" stuff. More warts and all kind of writing, which I like. It's available in Hard or soft cover. TJ

[TranterUK]

Seems to me, and I am no expert, Custer pushed his luck too far and his men paid the price.

[mrkirker]

Right you are, Tranter. I would venture a guess that he was reckless in the care of his men during the American Civil War, as well.

From facts that I've gleaned from several sources, Custer had aspirations for our nation’s highest office, and a stunning victory in the ‘war of the time’ would have garnered a great deal of favorable publicity for the 'Boy General' that would have furthered his efforts toward advancing his ambition. I would love to know exactly what he was thinking on that morning, prior to the ‘eye-opening’ discovery.

Thanks Teejay, I'll try and locate a copy.

[kutaho]

Originally Posted by mrkirker

Right you are, Tranter. I would venture a guess that he was reckless in the care of his men during the American Civil War, as well.

From facts that I've gleaned from several sources, Custer had aspirations for our nation’s highest office, and a stunning victory in the ‘war of the time’ would have garnered a great deal of favorable publicity for the 'Boy General' that would have furthered his efforts toward advancing his ambition. I would love to know exactly what he was thinking on that morning, prior to the ‘eye-opening’ discovery.

Thanks Teejay, I'll try and locate a copy.

He was thinking it was going to be a walk in the park,
He was confident of his superiority, and ignorant of the 1,800 really angry
warriors.
He definitely had political aspirations.

[wabryan1]

Yeah. I read a great book about the Custer battle written by the Indians. They say he was killed right off the bat. Then everything kinda went down hill from there. Now, the dead peole detectives are finding evidence saying the same thing.
If you're interested, email me and I'll find the book and give you the name of it.

[Big ugly]

I think I have read that one too, Cant remeber the name though. I'll see if I can look it up. I picked mine up in the Library of my highschool,.

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by mrkirker

Is there a factual biography on this man available that anyone would care to recommend? I don’t want the ‘glossed over’ “Boy’s Life – American Hero” version, because I don’t that that rings true. (I understand that his widow was able to 'spin' his career into a more favorable light, and I seek to avoid books of that genre.)
Thank you, for your recommendation.
Johnny

One I enjoyed was written in 1984 by Evan S. Connell and is entitled Son of the Morning Star. It's still in print and available from Amazon. This book is not a complete biography of Custer, but instead focuses on the Battle of the Little Big Horn and what led up to it. It does contain quite a lot of material on Custer's life prior to that battle, however, and the author doesn't gloss over much of anything. It essentially illustrates how Custer's arrogance and pride ended up getting him and his command killed.

[AL MOUNT]

Lil Georgie C was a "Hot Dog", way back even during the civil war.

His unsatiably thirst for fame & glory got not only his dumb arse kilt...

But a bunch of fine men under his command too.

Don't get me going on that "Dumb Yankee"



Moral of the Battle at LBH.....

When you only got single shot rifles...

Don't piss off a bunch of guys with repeating rifles.... less ya want to die, moron.

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by AL MOUNT

[B]Moral of the Battle at LBH.....

When you only got single shot rifles...

Don't piss off a bunch of guys with repeating rifles.... less ya want to die, moron.

It also helps not to take on a force many times your own size, on ground with no cover, and where there is no "back door." Custer was a fool, Al, an arrogant, medal-hunting idiot looking for fame and glory at the expense of the men he commanded. He reminds me of a few LT's I once encountered while on a tour of beautiful South East Asia at the expense of Uncle Sam.

[chucksolo69]

Best book I ever read on Custer was "Son of the Morning Star" and it took the author years and years to research. The book is just as good as "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee."

[red14]

mrkirker ""Have just finished reading ‘To Appomattox’ by Burke Davis (IBSN 0-915992-17-5) and find Geo. Custer’s behavior during the final days of the conflict abominable.""

I am not familiar with that encounter, can you paraphrase it for me?

[mrkirker]

Custer's attitude, words, and actions during an encounter with Confederate Officers carrying a flag of truce (just prior to the actual surrender), demanding that they surrender to 'him' personally before allowing their passing with their documents for General Grant. An officer, he was. However, not a gentleman.

His 'grandstanding/showboating' during the Grand Review in D.C.

[red14]

Originally Posted by mrkirker

Custer's attitude, words, and actions during an encounter with Confederate Officers carrying a flag of truce (just prior to the actual surrender), demanding that they surrender to 'him' personally before allowing their passing with their documents for General Grant. An officer, he was. However, not a gentleman.

His 'grandstanding/showboating' during the Grand Review in D.C.

Thank you , sir.

Discourteous, disrespectful, (to both sides) and totally without honor. Lack of discipline is always ugly, and unworthy of an officer, and especially for a leader.

[Thomas G]

Seems strange that most of Custers detractors come from southern states. He was arrogant,vainglorious,and a bit boastful, but he was also one hell of a scrapper and a leader that never asked of his men that which he wouldn't do himself. Give the devil his due. That little misshap on the Greasey Grass was due to the fact that every previous encounter he had with Indians, they ran. This time they didn't, also, his math skills seem to have abandoned him on that particular morning.

[Hammerslagger]

The bottom line is that Geo. Custer was arrogant fool and war criminal; who hanged six of Col. J.S.Mosby's men as spies because they were too poor to have regular CSA uniforms. He got his just reward when Crazy Horse and his men(Sitting Bull was not there) cut his genitalia off and stuffed it down his throat, and then defecated on his face, while his socialite wife partied..

It was Cool. John Singleton Mosby, CSA, of Lexington, Va. who made the handgun an effective implement of war; and taught a young George Patton (as a kid in California) the real principals of of modern warfare, which allowed him to defeat then best the Germans had in WW II.

[mrkirker]

Seems strange that most of Custers detractors come from southern states.

Not really. Southern men recognize fools, and don't suffer such gladly.

[pawn]

"Keep the last bullet for yourself" by Thomas Bailey Marquis

http://www.amazon.com/Bullet-Yoursel...=cm_cr_pr_pb_t

[Thomas G]

[QUOTE=Hammerslagger;496995]The bottom line is that Geo. Custer was arrogant fool and war criminal; who hanged six of Col. J.S.Mosby's men as spies because they were too poor to have regular CSA uniforms. He got his just reward when Crazy Horse and his men(Sitting Bull was not there) cut his genitalia off and stuffed it down his throat, and then defecated on his face, while his socialite wife partied..

[Thomas G]

Custers body was not mutilated, his ears were punched with a bone awl by the women to make him hear better in the "happy hunting ground". Patton recieved his military training at West Point, if he ever met Mosbey, I never heard of it. Northerners know a fool too, he's usually the one makeing statements wihtout research. Mosbey's men were irregulars and very well could have been spies. Sherman said "war is hell", have you figured that out yet ?

[Thomas G]

And while I'm on the subject, Custers "socialite wife" was at Ft. Lincoln at the time of her husbands demise, that's waaayyy up north on the plains, damned little socializing going on there. When he got his, the pay stopped and she was hauled to the nearest RR depot and sent back to Michigan at her own expense, as were all the other wives. No V.A. rep. in those days. Two great things ol' George taught us is, don't try to ambush a regiment with a platoon, and pay attention to your scouts.

[fmacsin1]

I believe Custer was so arrogant, he believed his own "fable." That led him to be reckless and he just happened to "win." And being a colorful militiaman, he made his men look good. Success breeds success. However, I wonder what the Las Vegas odds would have been on how many victories he could achieve? Obviously, his luck ran out and he lead them to it.

[Hammerslagger]

Well, I should have opened my mouth with more care. Did not intend to rile anyone up. I have a casual interest in history; not a serious one. None of this makes any real difference today.

I hope the poster who defacto called me a "fool" for [sic] "makeing statements without research"; will do a little actual research of his own. I think he certainly needs to do so, in order not to appear even more uninformed about Custer than myself.

It will become apparant I have done a little recent research of my own.
All anyone has to do is type in inquiry phrases from any major search engine; to get hours of material to read on just about any subject from multiple sources on the Internet.

The real point of this post is how history tends to get revised and distorted over time; and how a man who would be long forgotten by almost everyone is better known than many greater and more important men because of his arrogance and poor judgment and lack of respect for the abilities his adversaries, that cost him his life and the lives of his men.

Fifty-five plus years ago I was a second hand reader of men's magazines of the times like "True" "Argosy" "Saga" and "Cavalier" among others whose names I can not remember. A well written article in one such magazine about CSA Col. J. S. Mosby caused me to appreciate the military genius of this man: especially in that his cavelry carried no sabers favoring 4 to 6 revolvers and a doublebarrel shotgun loaded with buckshot in its place. It concluded by saying that the United States could thank him for the relatively quick and decisive victory over the Germans after Normandy because Mosby had taught Gen. G. Patton (as a boy in California) most of what Patton knew about tactics. This Patton fact is is well documented on the Internet today. I am surprised that my detractor did not do some research before declaring that he was unaware of it, as if to imply that it was not true.

Forty to fifty years ago magazine articles about the "Little Big Horn slaughter" (and other massacres) reported that White's bodies were typically mutilated in the fashion previously described by myself in a previous post. In my recent research, I found claims that Custer's body was claimed not to have been mutilated as were many of the bodies of others who died there that day. {Revisionist History? He was just another White dressed in scout's buckskin clothing. Why would his body have been treated differently? But, maybe it was.}

I found no reference to anything like his ears being enhanced for hearing in the "Happy Hunting Grounds", either; and would seriously doubt the accuracy of such a statement for several obvious reasons for an enemy who had been previously called "squaw killer". {perhaps unjustly}

Old magazine articles and recent research indicate that J.S. Mosby blamed Custer for the murder of 6 of Mosbys's men who had been captured. {It now appears that Custer may have been following illegal orders; or my have not been actually involved with these murders.}

Mosby promptly selected 7 Union POW's at random (except a Custer officer) and ordered them hanged in retaliation, with detalis to be communicated to the Union Command with the warning that if CSA POW's were not treated in a humane manner, Union POW's would not be either. Only two or three Union POWs were actually executed. The others were allowed to escape. The Union Command got Mosby's message and the hanging of irregular POW's stopped.

As to Mrs. Custer, I will stand by my basic statements. She was a very intelligent and politically astute woman. Head of the social order at Fort A. Lincoln. She would likely be the equal of Hillary Clinton or any other current US female politition, today.

After her husband's death she collected his widow's pension and latter an inheritance from her prominant Michigan father's estate. However, about two years before his death George had taken out a life insurance policy with New York Life Ins. Co. for $5000 which NY Life says is the equivilant of about one half million dollars in buying power today. She was not left in dire monetary straights as were the wives of others who died that day.

I find no record of her spending any significant time in Michigan afterward. She quickly moved to New York City, and its social scene, wrote three successful books, tirelessly defended and promoted the memory of her husband in speaking engagements (likely paid) and died there in 1931.

Likely, we still remember George Custer because of the publicity of Elizabeth Bacon Custer, who seems to have turned his blundering death (and well promoted fame) into a money making enterprize for herself.

Having done more research, I do not know what kind of a man Custer actually was. I no longer regard him as the certain, sadistic POW murdering war criminal that I previously viewed him as. I do think that he is over-rated as a professional soldier and hero. None of this has anything to do with the fact that he served his country (USA) in "The Great War of Yankee Industrial and Banking Agression", which had little to do with slavery.

[kutaho]

He made war on women, children, grandfathers, and grandmothers,
those are the ones who ran. The fact that his ears were pierced so he could hear better in the next world shows the understanding the human beings had.
If it had been me, yellow hair would have died a slow death.
Forgive me, but i have a strong sense of you get what you give.
I cry at the response of this, what he did to my people...

[Thomas G]

Custer was not mutilated because he had a wife and child among the Northern Cheyenne, the people would not dessecrate a member of the tribe(that's how they perceived him)Also, they knew very well who they were up agianst and they knew the man on sight, they had dealt with him before. But if you're getting your History lessons from True and Cavalier(I read them too) then there'r not much I can tell you, except that I've stood where Custer fell, His tactical screw up is pretty plain to see. Nothing to hide behind but other Indians.