H&R Premier 32 S&W CTGE Help request - The Firearms Forum

FatMattWaterRat · 06-28-2009, 08:59 PM

My Dad left me the titled gun but he hid the cylinder so well from us kids nobody ever found it when we cleaned out his house! Anyone who could steer me in the right direction to locate one would me much appreciated. I have tried gun shows with no luck.
The barrel is stamped Harrington & Richardson Arm Company, Worchester, MASS. USA Pat Oct. 8 1895, nickel plate, appears to be a small frame five shot, SN 187406.
Thank you in advance. Matt

b.goforth · 06-29-2009, 01:57 PM

this is a premier second model 3rd variation manufactured between 1909 and 1913. check on line auction sites and used parts suppliers like jack first inc., bob's gun shop and numrich arms for parts.
bill

breaktopIJUS/HR · 06-29-2009, 02:12 PM

Just a heads up, be carefull when buying used cyl. with extractor star if you plan on shooting it. Most used ones have worn out stars causing timing to be off. Better to buy complete gun with good timing. Use cyl assembly and save the rest for parts.

L. M. H. · 07-22-2009, 09:58 AM

My question in like FatMattWaterRat's. I have the same kind of gun but it is a six shot and has May 14th & Aug. 6th, 1989 and some more in rust. If you could help me it would be greatly appreciated.

b.goforth · 07-22-2009, 12:30 PM

a 6 shot 32 would be the large frame auto-ejecting in either the second model or third model. would really need a picture and the exact patent dates to determine the exact model and year of production. for now all i can tell you is if it has the caliber marked on the left side of the barrel it is a third model (1905-1941) and was designed for smokeless powder pressures if not it is a second model (1890-1904) and designed for black powder pressures only.
bill

mrbottles · 07-31-2009, 10:50 PM

Hello I found a five shot revolver in a river today. It was a cluster of crud but when I cleaned and oiled the gun now functions. The barrel is debossed "HARRINGTON & RICHARDSON ARMS CO WORCESTER, MASS USA" The cylinder has the number 21 debossed on one the side that faces the hammer. I found the gun less than a mile from where a famous gangland shooting happened. It was the execution of Jack Zuta August first 1930. witness accounts said the leader of the execution team cradled a Tommy gun the second was armed with a rifle two more were armed with sawn off shot guns and the last with a pistol. So now my question... Is it possible this is the pistol? Can I tell who bought it by the serial number or where it was sold? I know it is a one in a trillion shot BUT trillions are workable nowadays. I would love to hear opinions or how I can find information. Yes I will be looking for a Tommy gun soon!

Thanks , Steven steve@mrbottles.com

RJay · 07-31-2009, 11:58 PM

There is no way to trace the gun, plus if it had been in the river for 80 years it would not be functional or even recognisable as to make. It would be a lump of rust.

mrbottles · 08-01-2009, 05:39 AM

Hi RJ,

The gun was a huge mess. Functional may be an over statement. The plating protected the gun pretty well. It was a cluster of rust and crud and algae when I found it. I scuba dive for antique bottles. I can tell you for certain the condition of the gun is possible after being in the water a long time. I find oyster tins from the 1870's in decent shape old cone top beer cans in readable condition and have found flint lock pistols that are preserved enough to still exist after 130 years under water. many times silt shifts and things are buried in a time capsule that can break apart and expose them at any time. So the gun may have landed in mud sank been washed under and then a tree branch stuck against the shoreline nearby and water cut the mud away exposing it. It was sitting there plain to see when I found it.

By functional I mean the gun flips open and the hammer goes back. It will never fire another bullet. So the serial number was not tracked? That makes me wonder why anyone would throw it in the river at all. Unless they were fleeing a crime. This is a very area. It was a getaway for mobsters. There have been two gun crimes in the town since its inception. The gun being there almost guaranties it was misused doesn't it? This is a shallow river only ten feet wide.

Thanks for the help. It is an interesting thing either way.

Steven

RJay · 08-01-2009, 01:36 PM

It may have very well been a tackle box gun . A gun carried on fishing or hunting trips. It may have slipped from a pocket or holster and lost in the mud and water. I have seen modern firearms lost in this manner. Yes, it may have been used in some crime but there are many other reasons it found it's way into the river. Mr. Bill Goforth might be able to give you a time frame from the serial number, but then again he may not. These guns came in different frame sizes over the years and the serial numbers were not used consecutively ( different guns from the same maker may have the same serial number ). If all the patent dates and serial numbers are readable and you could post pictures, start a new post to Bill Goforth reference an Unknown H&R. As to tracing the history of the gun, not in this life time. Sorry about that.

just1988 · 09-10-2009, 06:15 PM

Hi, I'm Jannie. I got a 5 shot Oct. 8 1895 32S&W CTGE. It has Harrington & Richardson Arms Company Worcester, Mass. USA.

purplesides · 11-19-2009, 06:44 AM

i have the same gun in good condition just shot it yesterday on top of the barrel its stamped harrington & richardson arms company worcester,mass.usa pat oct 8,1895 the gun is in good condition and it is a 5 shot hamerless revolver silver plated with a black handel if your interested in it give me a offer my name is dave you can call 260-488-2595 it has no dents scratchs nothing i can send you a pic if you like oh on the left side on the barrel its stamped 32 cal .s & w ctge

06-28-2009, 08:59 PM	#1
FatMattWaterRat Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1	H&R Premier 32 S&W CTGE Help request My Dad left me the titled gun but he hid the cylinder so well from us kids nobody ever found it when we cleaned out his house! Anyone who could steer me in the right direction to locate one would me much appreciated. I have tried gun shows with no luck. The barrel is stamped Harrington & Richardson Arm Company, Worchester, MASS. USA Pat Oct. 8 1895, nickel plate, appears to be a small frame five shot, SN 187406. Thank you in advance. Matt -->

06-29-2009, 01:57 PM	#2
b.goforth Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: houston, tx Posts: 3,174	Re: H&R Premier 32 S&W CTGE Help request this is a premier second model 3rd variation manufactured between 1909 and 1913. check on line auction sites and used parts suppliers like jack first inc., bob's gun shop and numrich arms for parts. bill __________________ Author: Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle Works 1871-1993 H&R Arms Company 1871-1986 (due spring 2010) available from www.gunshowbooks.com website; iverjohnsoncollector.x10hosting.com

06-29-2009, 02:12 PM	#3
breaktopIJUS/HR Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 7	Re: H&R Premier 32 S&W CTGE Help request Just a heads up, be carefull when buying used cyl. with extractor star if you plan on shooting it. Most used ones have worn out stars causing timing to be off. Better to buy complete gun with good timing. Use cyl assembly and save the rest for parts.

07-22-2009, 09:58 AM	#4
L. M. H. Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1	Re: H&R Premier 32 S&W CTGE Help request My question in like FatMattWaterRat's. I have the same kind of gun but it is a six shot and has May 14th & Aug. 6th, 1989 and some more in rust. If you could help me it would be greatly appreciated.

07-22-2009, 12:30 PM	#5
b.goforth Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: houston, tx Posts: 3,174	Re: H&R Premier 32 S&W CTGE Help request a 6 shot 32 would be the large frame auto-ejecting in either the second model or third model. would really need a picture and the exact patent dates to determine the exact model and year of production. for now all i can tell you is if it has the caliber marked on the left side of the barrel it is a third model (1905-1941) and was designed for smokeless powder pressures if not it is a second model (1890-1904) and designed for black powder pressures only. bill __________________ Author: Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle Works 1871-1993 H&R Arms Company 1871-1986 (due spring 2010) available from www.gunshowbooks.com website; iverjohnsoncollector.x10hosting.com

07-31-2009, 10:50 PM	#6
mrbottles Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 2	Re: H&R Premier 32 S&W CTGE Help request Hello I found a five shot revolver in a river today. It was a cluster of crud but when I cleaned and oiled the gun now functions. The barrel is debossed "HARRINGTON & RICHARDSON ARMS CO WORCESTER, MASS USA" The cylinder has the number 21 debossed on one the side that faces the hammer. I found the gun less than a mile from where a famous gangland shooting happened. It was the execution of Jack Zuta August first 1930. witness accounts said the leader of the execution team cradled a Tommy gun the second was armed with a rifle two more were armed with sawn off shot guns and the last with a pistol. So now my question... Is it possible this is the pistol? Can I tell who bought it by the serial number or where it was sold? I know it is a one in a trillion shot BUT trillions are workable nowadays. I would love to hear opinions or how I can find information. Yes I will be looking for a Tommy gun soon! Thanks , Steven steve@mrbottles.com

07-31-2009, 11:58 PM	#7
RJay Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,487	Re: H&R Premier 32 S&W CTGE Help request There is no way to trace the gun, plus if it had been in the river for 80 years it would not be functional or even recognisable as to make. It would be a lump of rust. __________________ RonJames

08-01-2009, 05:39 AM	#8
mrbottles Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 2	Re: H&R Premier 32 S&W CTGE Help request Hi RJ, The gun was a huge mess. Functional may be an over statement. The plating protected the gun pretty well. It was a cluster of rust and crud and algae when I found it. I scuba dive for antique bottles. I can tell you for certain the condition of the gun is possible after being in the water a long time. I find oyster tins from the 1870's in decent shape old cone top beer cans in readable condition and have found flint lock pistols that are preserved enough to still exist after 130 years under water. many times silt shifts and things are buried in a time capsule that can break apart and expose them at any time. So the gun may have landed in mud sank been washed under and then a tree branch stuck against the shoreline nearby and water cut the mud away exposing it. It was sitting there plain to see when I found it. By functional I mean the gun flips open and the hammer goes back. It will never fire another bullet. So the serial number was not tracked? That makes me wonder why anyone would throw it in the river at all. Unless they were fleeing a crime. This is a very area. It was a getaway for mobsters. There have been two gun crimes in the town since its inception. The gun being there almost guaranties it was misused doesn't it? This is a shallow river only ten feet wide. Thanks for the help. It is an interesting thing either way. Steven

08-01-2009, 01:36 PM	#9
RJay Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,487	Re: H&R Premier 32 S&W CTGE Help request It may have very well been a tackle box gun . A gun carried on fishing or hunting trips. It may have slipped from a pocket or holster and lost in the mud and water. I have seen modern firearms lost in this manner. Yes, it may have been used in some crime but there are many other reasons it found it's way into the river. Mr. Bill Goforth might be able to give you a time frame from the serial number, but then again he may not. These guns came in different frame sizes over the years and the serial numbers were not used consecutively ( different guns from the same maker may have the same serial number ). If all the patent dates and serial numbers are readable and you could post pictures, start a new post to Bill Goforth reference an Unknown H&R. As to tracing the history of the gun, not in this life time. Sorry about that. __________________ RonJames Last edited by RJay; 08-01-2009 at 01:39 PM..

09-10-2009, 06:15 PM	#10
just1988 Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 4	Re: H&R Premier 32 S&W CTGE Help request Hi, I'm Jannie. I got a 5 shot Oct. 8 1895 32S&W CTGE. It has Harrington & Richardson Arms Company Worcester, Mass. USA.

11-19-2009, 06:44 AM	#11
purplesides Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: indiana Posts: 1	Re: H&R Premier 32 S&W CTGE Help request i have the same gun in good condition just shot it yesterday on top of the barrel its stamped harrington & richardson arms company worcester,mass.usa pat oct 8,1895 the gun is in good condition and it is a 5 shot hamerless revolver silver plated with a black handel if your interested in it give me a offer my name is dave you can call 260-488-2595 it has no dents scratchs nothing i can send you a pic if you like oh on the left side on the barrel its stamped 32 cal .s & w ctge