Can a black powder pistol be a self defense weapon?

[islenos]

Another dumb question. Is the ball that is used in a .45 Rifle be the same as a .44 pistol?

[Nitro]

By pistol I assume you are referring to a revolver? Revolvers do not use a patch while a rifle does, so this actually makes the .44 revolver ball larger than the .45 rifle ball. My Colt and Remington revolvers take a .454 cal ball which compresses down to the specified .44 cal. A rifle, or as in the case of my muzzle loading Kentucky .45 pistol, takes a .433 cal ball with a .020 patch bringing the cal rating up to .45. There are other extenuating circumstances like the mini-ball etc but that's a different category.

[quicksilver147]

Originally Posted by vern hodgson

Hang a nice thick costco steak from a tree branch and see if you can put a hole in it!! That will tell you a lot.

If you ask me........and you didnt........but dont waste a steak like that..i'll eat it.

[quicksilver147]

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[quicksilver147]

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[quicksilver147]

I do believe the .22 pistol with a silencer has felled many spies over the years.

I would think your black powder pistol of any sort would work well. And look on the bright side....if you miss you'll have a nice smoke screen to escape through.

[Win73]

Originally Posted by AL MOUNT

Ask Wild Bill Hickock or Jesse James.... ...

Hickock's first kill was Dave Tutt. He killed him with with one shot from an 1851 Navy Colt .36 caliber at a documented 70 or 75 yards (I forget exactly which). As I recall Tutt fired first and missed. Hickock didn't. From what I have read about Hickock he was an exceptionally good shot with his Navy Colts. He practiced religously. He would empty his pistols by firing them every day. He would then clean and reload them. He carried a "brace" (a pair) of Navy Colts stuck in a sash he wore around his waist. He generally didn't wear holsters. He carried the Navies well into the cartridge era.

[Rocket J Squirl]

Originally Posted by WilkieWashington

a 44 caliber black powder revolver - what's the power? Can it drop a person, or is it just a toy?

I

Those toys killed 630,000 people between 1859 and 1865

[Alpo]

Actually, during the War Against Yankee Aggression, more people were killed with rifles, muskets, shotguns, bayonets, swords, knives, cannon and by disease than were killed with black powder revolvers.

Second, Yankees killed Southerners and Southerners killed Yankees. Mr. Colt's equalizer did not kill anybody. Never has, never will, can't. Inanimate hunk of steel and wood. It was USED to kill, but IT did not kill. There is a large difference there.

[mrkirker]

Alpo, an argument might be made that during the Civil War, more perished from disease than from firearms!

The Union armies had from 2,500,000 to 2,750,000 men. Their losses, by the best estimates: (Burke)

Battle deaths: 110,070
Disease, etc.: 250,152
Total 360,222

The Confederate strength, known less accurately because of missing records, was from 750,000 to 1,250,000. Its estimated losses:

Battle deaths: 94,000
Disease, etc.: 164,000
Total 258,000

These totals do not include deaths in prison, drownings, murders, etc, which cannot be classified as 'disease'.

OMG, how far we have 'drifted'! LOL!

[Rocket J Squirl]

The general idea is that they are very deadly

[Alpo]

Originally Posted by mrkirker

Alpo, an argument might be made that during the Civil War, more perished from disease than from firearms!

The Union armies had from 2,500,000 to 2,750,000 men. Their losses, by the best estimates: (Burke)

Battle deaths: 110,070
Disease, etc.: 250,152
Total 360,222

The Confederate strength, known less accurately because of missing records, was from 750,000 to 1,250,000. Its estimated losses:

Battle deaths: 94,000
Disease, etc.: 164,000
Total 258,000

These totals do not include deaths in prison, drownings, murders, etc, which cannot be classified as 'disease'.

OMG, how far we have 'drifted'! LOL!

Disease is in my list.

[Larry in Michigan]

Well, as I posted before, I just purchased the R&D conversion cylinder for the Ruger Old Army. They are available for many other revolvers as well. My Goex Black Dawge cartridges arrived today. With a 235 grain bullet, they are advertised to deliver 1,196 fps, almost the muzzle velocity of a .41 magnum. The only reservation I would have with reference to a black powder revolver for defense is reliability, although my freshly loaded ROA has been 100% reliable. But the cartridges obviate that concern and allow me to leave the revolver loaded for extended periods of time without worry about load degradation. It's like having two weapons.....kinda.

Larry in Michigan

[karlsmith]

I've used the black powder weapon for hunting, but it wasn't mine. It is hunting club weapon. I can surely say the rifle is powerful enough to take down a person.

[TomBk]

Originally Posted by Larry in Michigan

I just purchased the R&D conversion cylinder for the Ruger Old Army. ... the cartridges...allow me to leave the revolver loaded for extended periods of time without worry about load degradation.

OK, but when you put a cartridge conversion cylinder on a cap and ball frame, is it still considered a cap and ball pistol? And if not, does it then become an illegally owned weapon in some jurisdictions where a permit is required for a conventional pistol, if one does not have that permit?

[pinecone70]

Originally Posted by TomBk

OK, but when you put a cartridge conversion cylinder on a cap and ball frame, is it still considered a cap and ball pistol? And if not, does it then become an illegally owned weapon in some jurisdictions where a permit is required for a conventional pistol, if one does not have that permit?

Those pistols are still considered black powder, and no permit is required to buy the conversion cylinder. They work quite well, too, provided they index properly with the frame.

[Alpo]

Pine, I don't think you answered his question. You notice, poor feller is from New York City. I betcha that, iffen he was to put a conversion cylinder in his 1858 Remington, NYPD would bust him for violating the Sullivan Act.

'Course, they might do that anyway, just for the 1858 Remington.

But, while the revolver is "not a gun" by Federal law, and can be shipped through the mail, and the conversion kit is "parts", again by Federal law, and again can be shipped through the mail, I'm pretty sure that if you put the one into the other, it then becomes a gun. Kinda like an auto-sear is a part, and an AR15 is a gun, but you put the one in the other and it magically becomes a machine gun.

[quigleysharps4570]

Originally Posted by Alpo

Hundreds (more probably thousands) of people were killed with 44 caliber black powder revolvers, since 1847. Even more were killed with 36 caliber black powder revolvers. And we can't forget the many that were killed with 31 caliber black powder revolvers.

Can't add much more to that.

[xm774u]

yes and yes

[quigleysharps4570]

According to all this...guess it'll kill someone.

[Savvy Jack]

Colt Walker can be loaded with 60gr black powder and has the same force as a 357 magnum.

[ofitg]

Got an old Handguns magazine, Feb '98, with an article written by Ed Sanow. He chronographed the round ball from an 1860 Colt at 935 fps - penetrated 19.8 inches of gelatin, recovered diameter 0.48 inches, stretch cavity 38.8 cubic inches.

Those numbers are comparable to some 9mm and .357 hollowpoints.

When he tried .44 conicals, he got lower muzzle velocities and deeper penetration... in his words, "the round ball turned this energy into tissue damage and massive disruption. The conical bullets turned the same energy into extremely deep penetration."

[redwing carson]

I like shooting the ROA and the Walker and the 58'. Bear in mind that the round ball was not the bullet used during the war or by many civilans. The conical bullet was loaded in paper Ctgs. This adds much more real power to the BP handgun. Would I carry a BP handgun for personal protection, not likely. The life and death choice of the modern world dictate a more even balance of power. The chances of an attack from a .36 Navy weilding mad man are not too likely. You may however be faced with a high Cap .40 Cal. Keeping even with weapons technology is not a bad idea.

RC

[Alpo]

Originally Posted by Savvy Jack

Colt Walker can be loaded with 60gr black powder and has the same force as a 357 magnum.

Jack, are you from Georgia?

[PRNY]

Originally Posted by Alpo

Pine, I don't think you answered his question. You notice, poor feller is from New York City. I betcha that, iffen he was to put a conversion cylinder in his 1858 Remington, NYPD would bust him for violating the Sullivan Act.

'Course, they might do that anyway, just for the 1858 Remington.

But, while the revolver is "not a gun" by Federal law, and can be shipped through the mail, and the conversion kit is "parts", again by Federal law, and again can be shipped through the mail, I'm pretty sure that if you put the one into the other, it then becomes a gun. Kinda like an auto-sear is a part, and an AR15 is a gun, but you put the one in the other and it magically becomes a machine gun.

It is illegal to ship a cap and ball revolver to NYC.