Lake City 223 brass question

The Count · 08-14-2010, 09:16 AM

lake city brass is military brass as much as i know, right? anyway, i have noticed the following:

after resizing lake city brass and checking it with a case gage, the head will stick out about one mm instead of being flush like with all other 223 brands. is this something to be concerned about? even when run through the full length resizer several times the result is the same....???? what to do...

cycloneman · 08-14-2010, 09:35 AM

see next post

cycloneman · 08-14-2010, 09:38 AM

Here have a look at this. This is probably going to be of more use to you.

http://www.stu-offroad.com/firearms/...asegauge-1.htm

The Count · 08-14-2010, 10:38 AM

thanks for the link. i adjusted the resizing die further down but the problem remains with LC brass. all others are totally flush with the high step on the gage. i measured the amount the LC head is over the high step 0.03". is this a non issue or would this round get stuck in some chambers>>>?

LDBennett · 08-14-2010, 10:56 AM

What exactly is keeping the case from going all the way into the case gage? Is it that the diameter of the head of the brass is too big for the gage and that stops it or is it that the shoulder of the case hits the gage chamber making the case stick out?

The way full length sizing dies are made they push the shoulder back so that the case will fit any chamber that is within industry standard specs. They also collapse the head of the case in diameter so it will fit as well.

You either have the sizing die adjusted wrong (re-read the instructions but it should touch the shell holder and offer a very slight resistance to the handle pull as the ram handles goes over top dead center), have a bad full length sizing die, or a case gage that is too small in the head part of the gage if the gage is stopping the case from seating against the shoulder of the case.

As far as using the LC cases as is, the best case gage you own is the rifle (or rifles) you intend to shoot it out of. If the bolt closes without too much force then all is well. If not you have to find where the problem is with the brass and fix it or throw the brass away. But it all may be that the case gage is just too tight in diameter at the head. It would not be the first gage that was made wrong.

LDBennett

The Count · 08-14-2010, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LDBennett

What exactly is keeping the case from going all the way into the case gage? Is it that the diameter of the head of the brass is too big for the gage....

i think you nailed it. i measured several LC cases. the head diameter is
0.376-0.377

with other brass its more like 0.372-0.373!

so now the question is: are the LC's within specs or is the gage just overly tight?

PS isn't it great how men can kill time with stuff like this :-)

LDBennett · 08-14-2010, 11:31 AM

This is military brass, meant to fire in semi-auto guns with chambers a little big for guaranteed feeding and extraction regardless of the conditions. So the brass may come out of the gun bigger than commercial standards. Full length sizing dies should get the head diameter back to the specs. The gage may be tighter than the max specs that the sizing die is made to but your chamber of the gun is probably not that tight.

Use your gun as the gage for the empty brass. If it chambers this sized LC brass OK then you are good to go. Try it in all of the chambers of your 223 guns to be sure.

As an aside Sierra says the case head diameter max spec is 0.376 inches and your cases are right there, I would say.

LDBennett

The Count · 08-14-2010, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LDBennett

Use your gun as the gage for the empty brass. If it chambers this sized LC brass OK then you are good to go. Try it in all of the chambers of your 223 guns to be sure.

yep, chambers and extracts OK, so i would say the lyman gage is to blame.

medalguy · 08-14-2010, 05:02 PM

Order a case gauge from Dillon and give that one a go. They're not too expensive and it never hurts to have a backup for everything.

LDBennett · 08-15-2010, 06:45 AM

If you set up your sizing die correctly there is no need to buy a special case gage. If at any time you doubt the dies are set up correctly use your gun's chamber on the empty, sized brass, just as a check. I reload for over 30 different calibers and I own one case gage in 9mm. I bought that in my early days of reloading when I didn't understand the processes completely and needed the case gage to fix a problem I induced.

LDBennett

steve4102 · 08-15-2010, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LDBennett

If you set up your sizing die correctly there is no need to buy a special case gage. If at any time you doubt the dies are set up correctly use your gun's chamber on the empty, sized brass, just as a check. I reload for over 30 different calibers and I own one case gage in 9mm. I bought that in my early days of reloading when I didn't understand the processes completely and needed the case gage to fix a problem I induced.

LDBennett

+1, this!

Popgunner · 08-15-2010, 01:54 PM

IMHO the case heads have grown slightly from firing & the regular F/L dies havn't done much to reduce the head dia. Regular F/L dies don't usually reduce the head area much. The case guage is made to smallest dimensions. To get the cases to fit a case guage you may have to get small base dies that actually reduce head size to minimum dimensions again.
But hey, if the cases fit your rifle just go with how they are.

silvertip44 · 08-20-2010, 10:17 PM

I had the same problem and the small base die solves it.

mtnboomer · 08-21-2010, 12:40 AM

Count, if you're using these cases in anything other than a semi-auto and they chamber and extract without problems - then you really have no problem. The case gage you're using is indicating that the base of your brass is oversized for use in a full-auto or semi-auto firearm. If everything works in your guns then don't worry about the size of the bases as they will only expand again to fit the chamber of your gun, just worry about overall length.

If you have autos get brass for them and keep it seperate from what you use in everything else.

08-14-2010, 09:16 AM	#1
The Count V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 264	Lake City 223 brass question lake city brass is military brass as much as i know, right? anyway, i have noticed the following: after resizing lake city brass and checking it with a case gage, the head will stick out about one mm instead of being flush like with all other 223 brands. is this something to be concerned about? even when run through the full length resizer several times the result is the same....???? what to do... -->

08-14-2010, 09:35 AM	#2
cycloneman Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Louisiana Posts: 7,397	Re: Lake City 223 brass question see next post __________________ Who are you going to serve today? Last edited by cycloneman; 08-14-2010 at 09:40 AM..

08-14-2010, 09:38 AM	#3
cycloneman Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Louisiana Posts: 7,397	Re: Lake City 223 brass question Here have a look at this. This is probably going to be of more use to you. http://www.stu-offroad.com/firearms/...asegauge-1.htm __________________ Who are you going to serve today?

08-14-2010, 10:38 AM	#4
The Count V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 264	Re: Lake City 223 brass question thanks for the link. i adjusted the resizing die further down but the problem remains with LC brass. all others are totally flush with the high step on the gage. i measured the amount the LC head is over the high step 0.03". is this a non issue or would this round get stuck in some chambers>>>?

08-14-2010, 10:56 AM	#5
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,710	Re: Lake City 223 brass question What exactly is keeping the case from going all the way into the case gage? Is it that the diameter of the head of the brass is too big for the gage and that stops it or is it that the shoulder of the case hits the gage chamber making the case stick out? The way full length sizing dies are made they push the shoulder back so that the case will fit any chamber that is within industry standard specs. They also collapse the head of the case in diameter so it will fit as well. You either have the sizing die adjusted wrong (re-read the instructions but it should touch the shell holder and offer a very slight resistance to the handle pull as the ram handles goes over top dead center), have a bad full length sizing die, or a case gage that is too small in the head part of the gage if the gage is stopping the case from seating against the shoulder of the case. As far as using the LC cases as is, the best case gage you own is the rifle (or rifles) you intend to shoot it out of. If the bolt closes without too much force then all is well. If not you have to find where the problem is with the brass and fix it or throw the brass away. But it all may be that the case gage is just too tight in diameter at the head. It would not be the first gage that was made wrong. LDBennett

08-14-2010, 11:31 AM	#7
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,710	Re: Lake City 223 brass question This is military brass, meant to fire in semi-auto guns with chambers a little big for guaranteed feeding and extraction regardless of the conditions. So the brass may come out of the gun bigger than commercial standards. Full length sizing dies should get the head diameter back to the specs. The gage may be tighter than the max specs that the sizing die is made to but your chamber of the gun is probably not that tight. Use your gun as the gage for the empty brass. If it chambers this sized LC brass OK then you are good to go. Try it in all of the chambers of your 223 guns to be sure. As an aside Sierra says the case head diameter max spec is 0.376 inches and your cases are right there, I would say. LDBennett

08-14-2010, 05:02 PM	#9
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 585	Re: Lake City 223 brass question Order a case gauge from Dillon and give that one a go. They're not too expensive and it never hurts to have a backup for everything.

08-15-2010, 06:45 AM	#10
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,710	Re: Lake City 223 brass question If you set up your sizing die correctly there is no need to buy a special case gage. If at any time you doubt the dies are set up correctly use your gun's chamber on the empty, sized brass, just as a check. I reload for over 30 different calibers and I own one case gage in 9mm. I bought that in my early days of reloading when I didn't understand the processes completely and needed the case gage to fix a problem I induced. LDBennett

08-15-2010, 01:54 PM	#12
Popgunner Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Contributor Posts: 1,764	Re: Lake City 223 brass question IMHO the case heads have grown slightly from firing & the regular F/L dies havn't done much to reduce the head dia. Regular F/L dies don't usually reduce the head area much. The case guage is made to smallest dimensions. To get the cases to fit a case guage you may have to get small base dies that actually reduce head size to minimum dimensions again. But hey, if the cases fit your rifle just go with how they are.

08-20-2010, 10:17 PM	#13
silvertip44 Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Acworth, Georgia Northwest of Atlanta in the edge of the mountains. Posts: 19	Re: Lake City 223 brass question I had the same problem and the small base die solves it.

08-21-2010, 12:40 AM	#14
mtnboomer Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Oklahoma by birth. America by the grace of God. Posts: 649	Re: Lake City 223 brass question Count, if you're using these cases in anything other than a semi-auto and they chamber and extract without problems - then you really have no problem. The case gage you're using is indicating that the base of your brass is oversized for use in a full-auto or semi-auto firearm. If everything works in your guns then don't worry about the size of the bases as they will only expand again to fit the chamber of your gun, just worry about overall length. If you have autos get brass for them and keep it seperate from what you use in everything else. __________________ The cost of freedom, is eternal vigilance. The cost of bondage, is your life. - mtnboomer Support the Second Amendment - Join the NRA! > http://www.nra.org < Oklahoma State - #1 - GO POKES!