Unconstitutional aspects of Health Care Bill. - The Firearms Forum

Trouble 45-70 · 08-03-2009, 12:31 PM

Starting in Title I Sect 1173A pp 57-9 gives access to you banking records and account, other sections give access to all other personal information. Is this a violation of the 4th amendment, "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons of things to be seized. ? On that funnel to end of life decisions in Title II sect 1233 p.429, doesn't that violate the preamble to the Constitution provision that says 'We are endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.' Will someone tell me When God died and who put Congress in charge.

bcj1755 · 08-03-2009, 12:39 PM

The whole damned thing is unconstitutional

Just like the entire Obama "Adminstration"

carver · 08-03-2009, 12:58 PM

armedandsafe · 08-03-2009, 01:33 PM

Ah, but you see, the Constitution says "unreasonable" is not legal. Don't you know that anything Obamasiah wants becomes "reasonable" by fiat?

[/sarcasm]

Pops

DEADEYE1964 · 08-05-2009, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcj1755

The whole damned thing is unconstitutional

Just like the entire Obama "Adminstration"

Not if you ask his supporter's. Ths nutcase is quickly turning this country into a socialist country and he will not be happy until he has weakened our National Security to the point we are fighting with slingshots( so we do not hurt his cousins) and we have supplied every illegal with healthcare.

jim summers · 08-05-2009, 07:56 AM

Things will get a lot worse.

45nut · 08-05-2009, 08:07 AM

We ain't seen nothing yet.

Just a reminder: This March to Socialism is designed to destroy our Constitution and if left unchecked it will. It is up to us whether we will let their plan succeed. Not Hannity or Rush, Beck, Levin, Matlin, or Preager or Medved or Savage. Us, We The People. Where do you stand, what price are you willing to pay? Will the next generation even care about our sacrifice to keep America free? Hell, does the current generation even care? That remains to be seen.

I for one am ready for whatever I need to do to further the cause of freedom.

Trouble 45-70 · 08-05-2009, 09:49 AM

There were a lot of informed young people at the last 2 tea parties I went to.

bcj1755 · 08-05-2009, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEADEYE1964

Not if you ask his supporter's. Ths nutcase is quickly turning this country into a socialist country and he will not be happy until he has weakened our National Security to the point we are fighting with slingshots( so we do not hurt his cousins) and we have supplied every illegal with healthcare.

That's why I DON'T ask his supporters. Most of them can barely string two coherent sentences together, much less engage in a discussion about the Constitution or US history. I still can't understand how anyone could support this Kenyan-born marxist usurper.

thomas44 · 08-10-2009, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 45nut

We ain't seen nothing yet.

I for one am ready for whatever I need to do to further the cause of freedom.

I am as well, but what DO we do ?

graehaven · 08-10-2009, 07:13 AM

It's ok though, everyone's gonna vote in the republicans in 2010 (to congress). they'll fix it.

Then, we can all just get screwed over at a slightly slower pace.

Everyone's talking about how it will be fixed in '10 when congress get's flipped, or they're saying to their reps, "they'd better not pass this, because their job is on the line."

Idiot voters.

Their job should be GONE, regardless of their vote on this. They've been screwing you over for YEARS. They ALL need to go!

And when they pass this, it won't be able to be repealed either. Once they have their foot in the door for nationalized health care, and the power it represents, NO politician will be able to resist expanding it.

45nut · 08-10-2009, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graehaven

And when they pass this, it won't be able to be repealed either. Once they have their foot in the door for nationalized health care, and the power it represents, NO politician will be able to resist expanding it.

With the present tenor of the conversation on health care reform, I for one think we have a great chance to stop this and cap & tax. THE PEOPLE are finally waking up and we are going to stop this madness. If not, the peaceful revol.ution will not be so any longer.

I agree wholeheartedly with you regarding both parties. We need a third party of conservatives not GOP & DNC.

kingchip · 08-10-2009, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trouble 45-70

There were a lot of informed young people at the last 2 tea parties I went to.

That's what I saw at The Alamo Tea Party. There were whites, blacks, orientals, men, women, some wearing obama shirts, admitted democrats, you name it.

Marlin T · 08-10-2009, 08:09 PM

This place has lots of information about the health care bill if your interested.

http://www.60plus.org/

dge479 · 08-11-2009, 08:44 PM

I went to a Town Hall last night, Elmwood Park NJ, Steve Rothman (D) had his @$$ handed to him. It was encouraging to see, but I think this will get jammed up our buts. We are in very deep crap, These people are dismantling the nation.

DebS · 08-11-2009, 09:12 PM

Way too many people are waking up and getting LOUD for this administration to ram very much more up our butts.

These town hall meetings are getting scary for the greedy rep's. So scary as a matter of fact the puss' in NC won't even HOLD town meetings.

bcj1755 · 08-11-2009, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DebS

Way to many people are waking up and getting LOUD for this administration to ram very much more up our butts.

These town hall meetings are getting scary for the greedy rep's. So scary as a matter of fact the puss' in NC won't even HOLD town meetings.

I think there was one in Charlotte today. But I'm not entirely sure.

muddober · 08-12-2009, 01:19 AM

I have read the health care bill from page to page and one only needs to read the first 23 pages of the bill and need not read another page to say no. Essentially it appoints a Commissioner (Czar) who by regulation and not law has the final say. While the bill to a layman gives the appearance that it is law, the bill merely provides onerous guide lines that the Commissioner and only the Commissioner has the discretion to implement, change or enforce. This whole regulation and not law thing is not a new innovation and I believe Obama is using it to maintain his goal as being America's first dictator. Our idiots in congress have for years been subordinating the power delegated to them by the Constitution. Just one example so I don't have to write a book was the formation of the Federal Reserve in 1913 which now controls every aspect of banking, that was up until then 100% controlled by congress as provided by the Constitution. Now congress as you probably have seen, especially of late, asking stupid questions of Federal Reserve guys making both the people asking and answering the questions looking like deer standing in headlights.

This health care bill if passed will in my opinion be the death nail of our Republic and give Obama unbridled power. The appointment of these 50 or so Czars that Obama has already put into place only answering to him is not only going to leave every US citizen outside looking in but also those idiots in congress who have allowed it to happen will find themselves as helpless as everyone of us to stop this Marxist Zealot. Why it is called a health bill is beyond my comprehension, because it goes way beyond health care and as such it should be called "The Bill from Hell".

That being said I must say that in my opinion there should be type of reform to cut the cost of health care and one way again in my opinion would be to stop the free give a way. I am an old man with a young wife and about three years ago we had a little boy and I paid some $25,000.00 for the Doc and the hospital. At the same time we were having our child there were three other woman at the same hospital having theirs and not one of three paid a dime because they were all on welfare and by law in Nevada as I think in most places the hospitals cannot refuse anyone. The obvious problem with that law is guess on many babies I really paid for that day, which is one of the reasons health care and health insurance are so expensive. Perhaps the government instead of promoting more free births they should offer cash incentives for sterlization, though doubtful the government would consider such measures because they need to harvest more voters to support what end I think is near.

Ron

Rocket J Squirl · 08-12-2009, 01:31 AM

Do you think they give a fuzzy squirrels behind what is consitutional?

The consitution isnt a factor any more to them. Only the old hold to the idea of liberty.

and they have an end of life clause in the bill just you

Ive desided to opt out. What can they do, take my birthday away?

Trouble 45-70 · 08-12-2009, 08:35 AM

Mostly what muddober said except I think the Congress will be kept on as Useful Idiots. They already perform that function with a great deal of skill and they have exempted themselves from the provisions of this bill.

DebS · 08-13-2009, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcj1755

I think there was one in Charlotte today. But I'm not entirely sure.

I believe it was outside of Charlotte in Hickory.

State Rep's and Senator's Myrick, Hagan and Burr have no town meetings scheduled.

GMFWoodchuck · 08-13-2009, 03:25 PM

Eh. Don't fret. I do not think that this junk will make it through. Even some of the democrats don't like it. And there are enough of those who do like it, but aren't willing to lose their jobs in the next election cycle over it. They will only do barely enough to say that they did something without actually doing anything at all. More and more people are being to see this "economic agenda" for what it really is. A political agenda.

But do not let the fight against this crap let up. Before we know it, it will be another Clinton-like legacy. An accomplishment-less one. Even after 8 years.

08-03-2009, 12:31 PM	#1
Trouble 45-70 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: NE Ar. W. of Black River Contributor Posts: 2,703	Unconstitutional aspects of Health Care Bill. Starting in Title I Sect 1173A pp 57-9 gives access to you banking records and account, other sections give access to all other personal information. Is this a violation of the 4th amendment, "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons of things to be seized. ? On that funnel to end of life decisions in Title II sect 1233 p.429, doesn't that violate the preamble to the Constitution provision that says 'We are endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.' Will someone tell me When God died and who put Congress in charge. -->

08-03-2009, 12:39 PM	#2
bcj1755 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: A wretched hive of scum and villiany Posts: 4,357	Re: Unconstitutional aspects of Health Care Bill. The whole damned thing is unconstitutional Just like the entire Obama "Adminstration" __________________ History is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace, and revolution continue on forever. Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges - Cicero If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. - Samuel Adams

08-03-2009, 12:58 PM	#3
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,266	Re: Unconstitutional aspects of Health Care Bill. +1 __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

08-03-2009, 01:33 PM	#4
armedandsafe Former Guest Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Moses Lake, WA Posts: 10,344	Re: Unconstitutional aspects of Health Care Bill. Ah, but you see, the Constitution says "unreasonable" is not legal. Don't you know that anything Obamasiah wants becomes "reasonable" by fiat? [/sarcasm] Pops

08-05-2009, 07:56 AM	#6
jim summers Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: I reside in southern Indiana, you can almost step out of my back door and be setting on Patoka Lake Posts: 1,056	Re: Unconstitutional aspects of Health Care Bill. Things will get a lot worse. __________________ To Whom Much Is Given, Much Is Required.

08-05-2009, 08:07 AM	#7
45nut Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,428	Re: Unconstitutional aspects of Health Care Bill. We ain't seen nothing yet. Just a reminder: This March to Socialism is designed to destroy our Constitution and if left unchecked it will. It is up to us whether we will let their plan succeed. Not Hannity or Rush, Beck, Levin, Matlin, or Preager or Medved or Savage. *Us, We The People. Where do you stand, what price are you willing to pay? Will the next generation even care about our sacrifice* to keep America free? Hell, does the current generation even care? That remains to be seen. I for one am ready for whatever I need to do to further the cause of freedom. __________________ A gun is a tool, Marian; no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that. Shane Nemo me impune lacesset We recall the case of the Shoshone war band which showed up complete with one 30-30 rifle per man the week after Pearl Harbor, and simply wanted to have the enemy pointed out to them. "We hear there's a war going on and we want to go fight it." Jeff Cooper *KCCO* Last edited by 45nut; 08-05-2009 at 08:15 AM..

08-05-2009, 09:49 AM	#8
Trouble 45-70 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: NE Ar. W. of Black River Contributor Posts: 2,703	Re: Unconstitutional aspects of Health Care Bill. There were a lot of informed young people at the last 2 tea parties I went to. Last edited by Trouble 45-70; 08-05-2009 at 12:34 PM..

08-10-2009, 07:13 AM	#11
graehaven Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 2,853	Re: Unconstitutional aspects of Health Care Bill. It's ok though, everyone's gonna vote in the republicans in 2010 (to congress). they'll fix it. Then, we can all just get screwed over at a slightly slower pace. Everyone's talking about how it will be fixed in '10 when congress get's flipped, or they're saying to their reps, "they'd better not pass this, because their job is on the line." Idiot voters. Their job should be GONE, regardless of their vote on this. They've been screwing you over for YEARS. They ALL need to go! And when they pass this, it won't be able to be repealed either. Once they have their foot in the door for nationalized health care, and the power it represents, NO politician will be able to resist expanding it. __________________ The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." - Thomas Jefferson RESISTANCE IS FEUDAL... PREPARE TO SERVE.

08-10-2009, 08:09 PM	#14
Marlin T Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New Mexico Posts: 7,857	Re: Unconstitutional aspects of Health Care Bill. This place has lots of information about the health care bill if your interested. http://www.60plus.org/ __________________ "But the simple truth--born of experience--is that tyranny thrives best where government need not fear the wrath of an armed people." Judge Alex Kozinski - United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government. - Thomas Paine Did you read todays GOOD shooting? >>>KEEPANDBEARARMS.COM <<<

08-11-2009, 08:44 PM	#15
dge479 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Haskell NJ Posts: 618	Re: Unconstitutional aspects of Health Care Bill. I went to a Town Hall last night, Elmwood Park NJ, Steve Rothman (D) had his @$$ handed to him. It was encouraging to see, but I think this will get jammed up our buts. We are in very deep crap, These people are dismantling the nation. __________________ Proud GOA and NRA member. Old Mopars and Guns, About as good as it gets. Guns Dont Kill, Socialized Healthcare does

08-11-2009, 09:12 PM	#16
DebS V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: North Carolina Posts: 91	Re: Unconstitutional aspects of Health Care Bill. Way too many people are waking up and getting LOUD for this administration to ram very much more up our butts. These town hall meetings are getting scary for the greedy rep's. So scary as a matter of fact the puss' in NC won't even HOLD town meetings. __________________ Lifetime NRA Member “Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction..” Ronald Reagan Last edited by DebS; 08-13-2009 at 03:12 PM..

08-12-2009, 01:19 AM	#18
muddober Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,436	Re: Unconstitutional aspects of Health Care Bill. I have read the health care bill from page to page and one only needs to read the first 23 pages of the bill and need not read another page to say no. Essentially it appoints a Commissioner (Czar) who by regulation and not law has the final say. While the bill to a layman gives the appearance that it is law, the bill merely provides onerous guide lines that the Commissioner and only the Commissioner has the discretion to implement, change or enforce. This whole regulation and not law thing is not a new innovation and I believe Obama is using it to maintain his goal as being America's first dictator. Our idiots in congress have for years been subordinating the power delegated to them by the Constitution. Just one example so I don't have to write a book was the formation of the Federal Reserve in 1913 which now controls every aspect of banking, that was up until then 100% controlled by congress as provided by the Constitution. Now congress as you probably have seen, especially of late, asking stupid questions of Federal Reserve guys making both the people asking and answering the questions looking like deer standing in headlights. This health care bill if passed will in my opinion be the death nail of our Republic and give Obama unbridled power. The appointment of these 50 or so Czars that Obama has already put into place only answering to him is not only going to leave every US citizen outside looking in but also those idiots in congress who have allowed it to happen will find themselves as helpless as everyone of us to stop this Marxist Zealot. Why it is called a health bill is beyond my comprehension, because it goes way beyond health care and as such it should be called "The Bill from Hell". That being said I must say that in my opinion there should be type of reform to cut the cost of health care and one way again in my opinion would be to stop the free give a way. I am an old man with a young wife and about three years ago we had a little boy and I paid some $25,000.00 for the Doc and the hospital. At the same time we were having our child there were three other woman at the same hospital having theirs and not one of three paid a dime because they were all on welfare and by law in Nevada as I think in most places the hospitals cannot refuse anyone. The obvious problem with that law is guess on many babies I really paid for that day, which is one of the reasons health care and health insurance are so expensive. Perhaps the government instead of promoting more free births they should offer cash incentives for sterlization, though doubtful the government would consider such measures because they need to harvest more voters to support what end I think is near. Ron Last edited by muddober; 08-12-2009 at 01:26 AM..

08-12-2009, 01:31 AM	#19
Rocket J Squirl Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 418	Re: Unconstitutional aspects of Health Care Bill. Do you think they give a fuzzy squirrels behind what is consitutional? The consitution isnt a factor any more to them. Only the old hold to the idea of liberty. and they have an end of life clause in the bill just you Ive desided to opt out. What can they do, take my birthday away?

08-12-2009, 08:35 AM	#20
Trouble 45-70 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: NE Ar. W. of Black River Contributor Posts: 2,703	Re: Unconstitutional aspects of Health Care Bill. Mostly what muddober said except I think the Congress will be kept on as Useful Idiots. They already perform that function with a great deal of skill and they have exempted themselves from the provisions of this bill.

08-13-2009, 03:25 PM	#22
GMFWoodchuck Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Binghamton, NY Posts: 1,369	Re: Unconstitutional aspects of Health Care Bill. Eh. Don't fret. I do not think that this junk will make it through. Even some of the democrats don't like it. And there are enough of those who do like it, but aren't willing to lose their jobs in the next election cycle over it. They will only do barely enough to say that they did something without actually doing anything at all. More and more people are being to see this "economic agenda" for what it really is. A political agenda. But do not let the fight against this crap let up. Before we know it, it will be another Clinton-like legacy. An accomplishment-less one. Even after 8 years.