GLOCK Model 37 .45cal EXPLODES in my 15 year olds hand

[ArnoldsPupil]

So we went to get some shooting practice yesterday afternoon, me my 15 and 18 year old sons and a friend.

Had not shot this new GLOCK model 37 .45 cal(new to me)
I bought it from a marine vet who had just returned from Iraq .

I fired 10 rds

My friend fired 10 rds

18 year old son fired 10 rds

Then it was Zecmans turn(15 years old)

He fired the first 5 rounds with this look of glee on his face with the power of a .45 in his hand, his first.

When the 6th round went off he lowered the pistol and said "OWWW"
Turned around and said "whats wrong dad"?

I went over to see what he was talking about and took the gun from his hand

His hand was covered in black gun powder residue.

The magazine was half way out and after looking closer I could see that the pressure button on the trigger was missing and the pin that holds the trigger together was protruding out the side aprox 1/8 of an inch.

I manually tried to push it back in and the trigger came apart and into two pieces in my hand.

We were all shocked and upon further examination we could see the magazine was splintered on the top left side.

The mag release button was sticking out 1/4 inch and on the opposite side was missing (blown out the right side).

The slide lock was just gone only a frayed sharp piece of metal was left.

The round that fell out when I cleared the gun was ruptured half way around at the bottom of the casing and the next round to be chambered has a gouge in the bullet.

A Veitnam Vetran whos range we were using was just as puzzled as I and neither of us had ever seen a cartrige ruptured like this or a gun blow up in this way.

It was as if the round had gone off half way into the chamber as the round underneath was damaged in the front.

Needless to say I thanked God it had not killed my son!!!!

His hand was a little swollen as hes a lefty and when this happened the mag release button blew out the side with such force I guess it impacted the heel of his left hand.

He was a little hesitent to fire the other gun(a kimber) after that.
It by the way performed like a "Kimber".

The bullets were Speer Gold Dot 230 gr. GAP.
No reloads.

What coud have caused this?
Will Glock repair this pistol for free?
Has this ever happened to anyone else before?
Will I buy another Glock?
Does my son have an angel looking out for him?

Cant stop thinking about it.

Glock is right up the road here in Metro Atlanta.
Should I bring it up there or write a letter to Glock?

Thankful to still have my son!!
Bummed Im out the $400 I paid for this gun and out a Glock.
I thought they were indestructable...lol

This is the first Glock I have owned.

Comments, suggestions?




So I got ahold of Glock this morning and was told they were not aware of ANY Glocks firing out of battery and if the primer was hit dead center then it was not out of battery.

He said it was an ammunition issue and to send him the pics and he would forward them to his man at Speer and go from there.

I will be required to send the gun and cartridges to him or Speer and it was up to the rep at Speer whether or not they would give me a replacement if I sent them my pistol.

He asked me if it was Blazer Brass?

I said it was 230 gr Speer no reloads.

What do you all think?





The rep from glock responded today indicating that he received my e mail and 12 pics so lets see where it goes from here.........

This is the e mail I sent...comments...god or bad this is in motion:

"Mr. Robinson,



My family and I went to get some shooting practice Saturday afternoon(7/25/09).

I had not shot this GLOCK model 37 .45 cal. Gun.





My 15 year old son fired the first 5 rounds with this look of glee on his face with the power of a GLOCK .45 in his hand, his first.

When the 6th round went off he hesitated lowered the pistol and said "OWWW"



Turned around and said "what’s wrong dad"?

I went over to see what he was talking about and took the gun from his hand

His left and right hands were covered in black gun powder residue.

The magazine was half way out and after looking closer I could see that the pressure button on the trigger was missing and the pin that holds the trigger together was protruding out the side aprox 1/8 of an inch.

I manually tried to push it back in and the trigger came apart and into two pieces in my hand.

We were all shocked and upon further examination we could see the magazine was splintered on the top left side.

The mag release button was sticking out 1/4 inch and on the opposite side was missing (blown out the right side).

The slide lock was just gone only a frayed sharp piece of metal was left.

The round that fell out when I cleared the gun was ruptured half way around at the bottom of the casing and the next round to be chambered has a gouge in the bullet.

A Vietnam Veteran who’s range we were using was just as puzzled as I and neither of us had ever seen a cartridge ruptured like this or a gun blow up in this way.

It was as if the round had gone off half way into the chamber as the round underneath was damaged in the front.

Needless to say I thanked God it had not killed my son or injured any one else!!!!

His hand was a little swollen as he’s a lefty and when this happened the mag release button blew out the side with such force I guess it impacted the heel of his left hand.


The cartridges were Speer 230 gr. GAP
No reloads.

What could have caused this?
Will Glock or Speer please replace this pistol for me?
Has this ever happened to anyone else before?

Thankful to still have my son!!
Bummed I’m out the $500+ I paid for this gun and out my Glock.


I thought they were indestructible..

This is the first Glock I have owned.

I would not want this to happen to anyone else and I know if it is a design flaw you would like to know about it. This could have caused serious injury to my son and others in the vicinity and as well to other Glock owners.

My thoughts……



"From the look of the casing, it ruptured while half out of the chamber, and the energy of the unsupported explosion was released down and back, which points the finger at an out of battery primer detonation.

My money would be on the firing pin protruding out prematurely and making fast and heavy contact with the primer while the round is still being ramped into the chamber."

Could also be an issue with the ammunition as I know this has been an issue before

The cartridges were factory Speer 230 gr. GAP as you can see from the pics.


Not reloads, I never use them

Please get back to me as soon as possible and let me know your progress. There is much interest in this case.


Thank You,

Greg Hindley"





Just got mail from Glock:

"Greg,



Yes, the photos you provided have been sent to our contact at ATK (Speer). They will usually want to look at the fired case as well.



For me, Thursday is not a good day as I will be out of the office both Thursday and Friday, however the very capable Warranty Supervisor will be here to assist you if you want.



I sent directions to Glock from Google.



I will be here tomorrow if you need to contact me.





Best regards,







Doug Robinson"









So I got a courtesy call from the rep at Glock said he was touching base since he hadnt heard from me.

Told him Id been busy but planned on coming by this mon or tues to show him the gun and ammo and ruptured case.

He asked me if I still had the box fromthe ammo and that he told the Speer guy I had it.

Never told him that!

In fact I told him I didnt have it but that I had bought all the .45 GAP at our local gun store when I bought the gun.

It was not old or reloaded or +p ect.

He said Speer did not make a 230 gr bullet.

I couldnt remember what is was but was heavy

Anyway he made a hmmmmm noice and said not having the box for the ammo might be a problem.....WTF.

I cant believe they are both su customer unfriendly and dont want to take responsibillity for this.

Guess they will say it was my sons fault the gun exploded and not the bullet or gun manaf. fault.

Im so ****ed how he was talking already that it was going to be a problem without any evidence yet.

Going by tues to give the gun andd ruptured case after I take a bunch more detailed pics.

Lets see what happens.

Dont know how else to get the word out.

I tried uploading phtos but got this:

Your submission could not be processed because a security token was missing or mismatched.

If this occurred unexpectedly, please inform the administrator and describe the action you performed before you received this error.

If you would like to see photos and can recieve large downloads e mail me and Ill send them
martialscience64@bellsouth.net

[glocknut]

Yeah, you need to have the box that the ammo came in. Telling a company that "i think" it was this or that does not cut it. If it was truely factory ammo and not reloads then i would suspect the ammo would be at fault.

Any gun can be blown up if a round has a massive overcharge....

I don't blame them for wanting the box one little bit. Too many people out there that are willing to BS their way to a new gun after knowingly using reloads against manufacturer recomendations.

mike
gn

[Shooter45]

The ammo box will identify the lot number.

Do an internet search and you will find quite a few Glock "Kabooms". This is not a first. Good luck and keep us posted.

[Lotsdragon]

I would go back to the gunstore and buy another box of the same ammo, hope your son gets over his shock without any problems.........

[glocknut]

Originally Posted by Lotsdragon

I would go back to the gunstore and buy another box of the same ammo, hope your son gets over his shock without any problems.........

How does that help with identifying the bad lot of ammo? Ammo bought at a different time will without a doubt have a different lot number than the box that had the overcharged round...

mike
gn

[Hammerslagger]

It would have been nice (better, more informative) if the ArnoldsPupil would have shared the photos with us. Also, I can not understand him not having the box that the alleged new factory ammo came out of, after an incident like this. His narrative accounts for 36 rounds fired (including the one that caused the damage) that leaves 14 left in a 50 round box. this whole narrative makes no sense, to me.

[gdmoody]

I don't quite understand it all either, I have read the post twice. This is a lot of stuff that has transpired in what looks like one day. The thread was written yesterday (Friday)and it appears that the incident happened on Thursday (he says it happened yesterday). Glock was contacted and they contacted Speer and both responded in one day! The price he paid for the gun went up $100 from the account he told us and what he told the Glock folks.

If my Glock blew up in my hand (or my son's hand) and I lived just down the road from Glock (which I do also), I would be beating on their door.

I'm sorry, but I smell something fishy!

EDIT: I have looked and cannot find any Speer Gold Dot ammo made in 230 grain .45 GAP (only 185 and 200 grain). They do have 45 ACP Gold Dot!

[ArnoldsPupil]

Originally Posted by gdmoody

I don't quite understand it all either, I have read the post twice. This is a lot of stuff that has transpired in what looks like one day. The thread was written yesterday (Friday)and it appears that the incident happened on Thursday (he says it happened yesterday). Glock was contacted and they contacted Speer and both responded in one day! The price he paid for the gun went up $100 from the account he told us and what he told the Glock folks.

If my Glock blew up in my hand (or my son's hand) and I lived just down the road from Glock (which I do also), I would be beating on their door.

I'm sorry, but I smell something fishy!

EDIT: I have looked and cannot find any Speer Gold Dot ammo made in 230 grain .45 GAP (only 185 and 200 grain). They do have 45 ACP Gold Dot!

Sorry for the confusion people. Nothing fishey but the discerning eyes I was looking for seems...

The rounds were taken out of the box for storage in a plastic storage box and then two mags were loaded for carry...thus no box.

I believe I have the receipt am trying to locate it. Was bought at a local gun store so going by monday to have a chat and going to Glock Tuesday morning to meet with the rep.

I work a lot and havent been able to get by Glock, there about an hour away so have not been able to get by yet

This happened two weeks ago and I have been posting on another forum more survival related and wanted to get some other angles and advice from this forum...so..I cut and pasted my origional post and the letter I sent to Glock and their replies last night.

I have a lot of 230 gr hardball for my .45 Kimber and thought thats what the GAP was but your right it was 185 or 200 gr.
Thanks for clearing that up.

I tried to post the pics but it keeps giving me an eror.

Here is the thread on the other forum with 15 pics or so

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=67073

[Hammerslagger]

Sir:

I would like to be of assistance. I am in no way implying that you are knowingly being less than factual. There are numerous reasons as to "why" that which you describe could have happened. One of the most likely involves a use history of reloaded ammo with cast lead bullets, even though the incident happened shooting major manufacturer factory ammo, as you claim.

There are knowledgeable mechanical engineering types on this forum with extensive vocational firearms knowledge and experience. We need lots of close detail pictures of everything; especially the burst cartridge case; to be able to opine intelligently. Many of us (myself included) are reluctant to follow links to other places, from here, for fear of getting computer problems.

Please find a way to post your photos here.

[ArnoldsPupil]

tried to uplaod again...WTF...more problems....
Go to the url provided...I have been there 1000's of times and no problems..Good sight.
I also worked for Intel corp or many years and know software / programming/ computers / viruses ect and this is not a prob on this site.
Many pics are there.
g

[JUNKKING]

Glad your son wasn't hurt bad. I think you are out of luck without having the empty casing and a box. My brother In-Law always empties his bullets into a ziplock bag as soon as he gets them. he can have as many as 5 to 7 manufacturers in there at a time. Some magazines are loaded with 5 to 7 different manufacturers. I tell him all the time he is going to be sorry one day for mixing the ammo. in a bag and not having the box. He laughs at me because I will take boxes to the range and keep them all seperate. Good luck with your matter. I have seen Remington take care of a similar problem with a shotgun exploding at the receiver while shooting reloads. A woman at our club was burned pretty bad, But it was the 3rd round fired from a brand new gun. Remington replaced the 870 with a new 1100 and I believe there was a cash settlement plus medical bills paid.

[ArnoldsPupil]

Originally Posted by JUNKKING

Glad your son wasn't hurt bad. I think you are out of luck without having the empty casing and a box. My brother In-Law always empties his bullets into a ziplock bag as soon as he gets them. he can have as many as 5 to 7 manufacturers in there at a time. Some magazines are loaded with 5 to 7 different manufacturers. I tell him all the time he is going to be sorry one day for mixing the ammo. in a bag and not having the box. He laughs at me because I will take boxes to the range and keep them all seperate. Good luck with your matter. I have seen Remington take care of a similar problem with a shotgun exploding at the receiver while shooting reloads. A woman at our club was burned pretty bad, But it was the 3rd round fired from a brand new gun. Remington replaced the 870 with a new 1100 and I believe there was a cash settlement plus medical bills paid.

I have the ruptured case. It is extreme. Have the one below it in the mag that was damaged as well

[ArnoldsPupil]

wow I got some through
Heres some more to follow

[ArnoldsPupil]

some of the mag

[ArnoldsPupil]

the pistol

[ArnoldsPupil]

more of pistol

[carver]

Glad your son wasn't hurt any worse than he was. I reload, therefore, I never throw away the box! I use it to put my reloads in. I can understand the companies reluctance to do much with out proper proff of your claim. Still, I do think that Glock should at the least give you another gun. Having a blown up gun out there can't be doing their sales any good. You stated that you bought the ammo at the time you purchased the gun, and that you have not found the sales receipt as of yet. Why not try the gun store, they should have a record of that sale. Maybe not the lot # from the ammo box, but it should prove that you bought ammo off the shelf.

[ArnoldsPupil]

Originally Posted by carver

Glad your son wasn't hurt any worse than he was. I reload, therefore, I never throw away the box! I use it to put my reloads in. I can understand the companies reluctance to do much with out proper proff of your claim. Still, I do think that Glock should at the least give you another gun. Having a blown up gun out there can't be doing their sales any good. You stated that you bought the ammo at the time you purchased the gun, and that you have not found the sales receipt as of yet. Why not try the gun store, they should have a record of that sale. Maybe not the lot # from the ammo box, but it should prove that you bought ammo off the shelf.

Well see this wek what their attitude will be.
Think they think ammo problem.
Private sale o the gun just bill of sale but I did get ALL factory ammo from one place. Im going by at lunch tomorrow to see what they can do for me and going to glock tuesday morning.
Seems they would want to replace the gun but dont know what bad press they will get just posting on forums?
g

[JUNKKING]

AP that sure looks like an out of battery fire to me. I had damn near the same thing happen to me but only with a .22LR. It is posted under Mishap At Range under the 22 section of this forum. I guess being a 22 I didn't incur such damage as you did. Good luck hope all works out for you.

[Hammerslagger]

Thanks for the pictures. Now we can begin to infer from actual evidence rather than just make blind educated guesses.

We still need detailed pictures of the barrel (removed from the slide) especially detailed full length sides and bottom shots, and a "tail on" breech shot. Several of the inside of the bore from front and rear would be nice but I do not have the time and space to explain how to take them to show what I want to see. Also need more pictures of the the failed case, especially the primer end of it.

From what I can see here, I will make some inferences that might change, be added to, or modified later, if I see more photos. This cartridge case appears to have failed in the unsupported region of the chamber in a manner typical of such failures. {I really need to see some good barrel and primer pics before opining much further!!!}

This type of failure is not common but happens in the many pistols that use this basic chamber design. I personally witnessed a similar one, involving a very rare 1911 Match Target pistol, within the last 6 weeks. The longitudinal spaces between the frame and slide acted as multiple miniature barrels directing fragments of cartridge brass into his face causing significant bleeding. Had he not been wearing safety glasses, he likely would have had severe eye damage. If your son was not wearing safety glasses, you can thank the Glock design for him still having his eyes. {ALWAYS WEAR SAFETY GLASSES WHEN SHOOTING ANY FIREARM !!! There are potential hazards that most experienced shooters, including myself, are totally unaware of.}

This type of failure can have several causes, including a defective cartridge case and/or an overpressure situation. From the limited photo evidence, here, I find it unlikely that this incident was caused by the cartridge firing before being fully chambered. If the cartridge case was defective a forensic analysis may prove so. It is unlikely that ammo loaded by CCI/Speer or Federal (owned by same parent company, and sometimes load and label each others products) could have had a double charge of power! If you are mistaken as to the ammo brand, other possibilities come into the equation.

Get us some more photos and we can advise in a more confident and knowledeable manner.

Best wishes

[Hammerslagger]

ArnoldsPupil;

Bear in mind that the pistol and brass are like and accident or crime scene. Do not do anything to clean anything up or try to make anything be easier to see! Such is regarded as evidence tampering. Such usually get discovered by a competent forensic tech.; and ones credibility goes down the Mr. Crapper's invention.

HS

[ArnoldsPupil]

So Ill disassemble the pistol tomorrow and take the detailed pics asked for.

Glock is requesting i give up the gun for inspection as well as the ruptured case and unfired ammo.

How should i go about this without giving up ALL my evidence to them and then have them twist the investigation to their way?

Obviously a lawyer will cost thousands of dollars for the 600 dollar istol. Cant really afford or justify this?

I will not clean it but will take pics and video as I disassemble.

Any other thoughts or suggestions

[ArnoldsPupil]

Also the slide lock was blown off as well as the mag release button.

How can I hold the breech oopen to take pics and or get the slide off?

[ArnoldsPupil]

"It is unlikely that ammo loaded by CCI/Speer or Federal (owned by same parent company, and sometimes load and label each others products) could have had a double charge of power! If you are mistaken as to the ammo brand, other possibilities come into the equation."

As indicated in the pics it was a Speer .45 GAP cartridge and the primer was hit dead center.

Please look for more pics to come when someone can help me disassemble in its current condition.

Thanks you so much for the detailed and comprehensive conversation so far.

Seems like there is much more to come.

[ArnoldsPupil]

Sorry I thought I had posted this pic

It shows a Speer .45 GAP cartridge hit dead center