Firearm registration Constitutional - Court

[armedandsafe]

Just found this, while searching for something completely unrelated to firearms. Written by Declan McCullagh, a correspondent for CBSNews.com.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/08...y5253857.shtml 8/20/2009

Appeals Court: Government Can Require Gun Registration
Posted by Declan McCullagh

An appeals court in Chicago has ruled that the federal, state or local government can require all citizens to register their firearms under penalty of law.

A three-judge panel of the U.S. Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals said that, even after the Supreme Court's high-profile gun rights decision last year, the Second Amendment is no obstacle to mandatory gun registration.

The case arose out of the Chicago-area town of Cicero's mandatory registration requirement for firearms. A local man named John Justice was raided by the Cicero police on suspicion of violating business ordinances including improper storage of chemicals; the police discovered six unregistered handguns during the raid. Justice runs the Microcosm laminating company on 55th Ave., which sells special adhesives and does custom coatings for customers, and argued in a civil lawsuit that the local ordinance violated the Second Amendment. He did not immediately respond to a request for comment on Wednesday.

In a 3-0 opinion published last Friday, the judges said that this was a different situation from the District of Columbia v. Heller case, which led the Supreme Court to strike down D.C.'s law effectively prohibiting the ownership of handguns.

"There is a critical distinction between the D.C. ordinance struck down in Heller and the Cicero ordinance," the court said in an opinion written by Judge Diane Wood, a Clinton appointee. "Cicero has not prohibited gun possession in the town. Instead, it has merely regulated gun possession under Section 62-260 of its ordinance." If the court had merely written that the Second Amendment doesn't apply to the states (a concept called incorporation), this would not have been especially newsworthy. After all, a different three-judge panel from the 7th Circuit already has rejected the incorporation argument. What's unusual -- and makes this case remarkable -- is that Wood went out of her way to say that even if the Second Amendment does apply to states, mandatory gun registration would be perfectly constitutional. "The town does prohibit the registration of some weapons, but there is no suggestion in the complaint or the record that Justice's guns fall within the group that may not be registered," she wrote. "Nor does Heller purport to invalidate any and every regulation on gun use."

The other judges on the panel were William Bauer, a Ford appointee, and John Tinder, a George W. Bush appointee. I haven't been able to find the full text of Section 62-260 online (update: I've found it and attached it below), The Legal Community Against Violence's summary of firearm laws says that in Cicero, "all firearms in the City must be registered prior to taking possession of the firearm" and that registration certificates must be renewed every two years.

Alan Gottlieb, founder of the Second Amendment Foundation, said in an interview that registration is terrible public policy, especially because world history shows that it often leads to confiscation. Last week's decision should remind us that Heller won't be the last word on gun rights, Gottlieb said. "It starts building blocks on a foundation -- you don't win everything in one case," he said. "As you and I know, criminals aren't going to register their guns. Prohibited persons aren't going to register their guns. Someone prohibited from owning a gun isn't going to register it. Registration would apply only to law-abiding citizens."

There is no national registration requirement for firearms, although anyone buying a gun from a dealer fills out a Form 4473, which the dealer must keep on file in paper form for 20 years. My home state of California says that all handguns be registered, but it's not as strict as Cicero's requirement (rifles and shotguns are exempt from registration).

David Kopel, research director at the Golden, Colo.-based Independence Institute, said: "I think Heller at least hints that (Cicero's regulation) might be unconstitutional. Registration of noncommercial transactions might be unconstitutional. At least it leaves the question open." (Kopel has pointed out that four Chicago suburbs repealed their handgun bans post-Heller.)

I happened to interview Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign, earlier on Wednesday and asked him about what the Heller decision means for gun control. He replied: "Outside D.C.'s gun ban and perhaps Chicago's, there really probably aren't that many gun laws that are going to be affected by Heller. What I've argued is that Heller, in a way, took the extremes off the table. It said you can't have a total gun ban like D.C.'s. They also took the other extreme off the table, which is that anyone can have any gun, anywhere, any time."

Read literally, the Seventh Circuit's decision means that the U.S. Congress could enact a mandatory registration requirement tomorrow -- a law saying that you must report your handguns, rifles, and shotguns to the FBI and ATF or go to prison -- and at least one federal circuit would uphold it as constitutional. But would the Supreme Court justices? A number of gun cases, including one brought by the National Rifle Association, another out of New York, and a third out of California, are headed in their direction. By next summer we may have an answer.

Update 1:38am ET: A helpful CBSNews.com reader, James E., was kind enough to point me toward the text of the town of Cicero's regulation. You can find it on Municode.com. The interface is awful, but if you poke around on the menus to the left under Chapter 62, Article VI, you'll find it. It's a remarkable read. Cicero makes it illegal to possess "any slingshot," or any "laser sight accessory." Non-dealer firearm transfers are prohibited. Carrying a "concealed" knife is prohibited. The unlicensed sale of a "Bowie knife" is prohibited. A quick read shows that it is illegal to "fire or discharge any gun, pistol or other firearm within the town" except at licensed shooting ranges -- which I imagine poses a problem for residents hoping to use a gun for legitimate self-defense.

Anyway, the portion relevant to today's story says: "All firearms in the town shall be registered in accordance with this division. It shall be the duty of a person owning or possessing a firearm to cause such firearm to be registered. No person shall within the town possess, harbor, have under his control, transfer, offer for sale, sell, give, deliver, or accept any firearm unless such person is the holder of a valid registration certificate for such firearm. No person shall, within the town, possess, harbor, have under his control, transfer, offer for sale, sell, give, deliver, or accept any firearm which is unregisterable under this division." (Police, of course, are exempt.)

Declan McCullagh is a correspondent for CBSNews.com. He can be reached at declan@cbsnews.com.

Pops

[glocknut]

grumble grumble grumble....

mike
gn

[GMFWoodchuck]

Proof that these people do not understand simple language such as "shall not be infringed." Well actually they understand it, they are looking for the Obamesiah to take hold as our very own Hitler. I just wonder who is going to get persecuted in this country.

[kingchip]

I wonder as tax paying citizens, how much money are we spending to fund the research necessary for the feds to figure out a way around the 2nd ?

[tireman7.62x54r]

Wood, Diane Pamela

Born 1950 in Plainfield, NJ

Federal Judicial Service:
Judge, U. S. Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit
Nominated by William J. Clinton on March 31, 1995, to a seat vacated by William Joseph Bauer; Confirmed by the Senate on June 30, 1995, and received commission on June 30, 1995.

Education:
University of Texas, Austin, B.A., 1971

University of Texas School of Law, J.D., 1975

Professional Career:
Law clerk, Hon. Irving Goldberg, U.S. Court of Appeals, Fifth Circuit, 1975-1976
Law clerk, Justice Harry Blackmun, Supreme Court of the United States, 1976-1977
Attorney-advisor, Office of the Legal Advisor, U.S. Department of State, 1977-1978
Private practice, Washington, DC, 1978-1980
Assistant professor of law, Georgetown University, 1980-1981
Faculty, University of Chicago, 1981-1995
Assistant professor, 1981-1988
Professor, 1988-1995
Associate dean, 1989-1992
Special assistant to the assistant Attorney General, U.S. Department of Justice, 1985-1987
Deputy assistant attorney general for international, appellate, and policy, Antitrust Division, U.S. Department of Justice, 1993-1995


Race or Ethnicity: White

Gender: Female

[bcj1755]

Originally Posted by tireman7.62x54r

Wood, Diane Pamela

Born 1950 in Plainfield, NJ

Federal Judicial Service:
Judge, U. S. Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit
Nominated by William J. Clinton on March 31, 1995, to a seat vacated by William Joseph Bauer; Confirmed by the Senate on June 30, 1995, and received commission on June 30, 1995.

Education:
University of Texas, Austin, B.A., 1971

University of Texas School of Law, J.D., 1975

Professional Career:
Law clerk, Hon. Irving Goldberg, U.S. Court of Appeals, Fifth Circuit, 1975-1976
Law clerk, Justice Harry Blackmun, Supreme Court of the United States, 1976-1977
Attorney-advisor, Office of the Legal Advisor, U.S. Department of State, 1977-1978
Private practice, Washington, DC, 1978-1980
Assistant professor of law, Georgetown University, 1980-1981
Faculty, University of Chicago, 1981-1995
Assistant professor, 1981-1988
Professor, 1988-1995
Associate dean, 1989-1992
Special assistant to the assistant Attorney General, U.S. Department of Justice, 1985-1987
Deputy assistant attorney general for international, appellate, and policy, Antitrust Division, U.S. Department of Justice, 1993-1995


Race or Ethnicity: White

Gender: Female

Interesting, this liberal POS has only actually WORKED for a living for TWO YEARS of her life. The rest of it she's been a gov't leech sucking us dry of tax money!!

What part of "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" do these liberal f***tards NOT UNDERSTAND?!?!

[obxned]

Registration is always followed by confiscation which is followed by enslavment and death. Why go through all that annoying paperwork to register your firearms when it would save a lot of time and trouble to just commit suicide?

[Rocket J Squirl]

When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

Lets see, crimminals will still have guns, the government will still have guns.

The people will not.

Whom are the outlaws?

[GunHugger]

I will NEVER register any gun that I own.

And I suggest this is when the straw will break the camel's back. Lock and load and fight for our freedom.

Confiscation ALWAYS follows registration...ALWAYS!

[dycab]

What guns? I don't have no stinkin' guns...

[Haligan]

Originally Posted by GunHugger

I will NEVER register any gun that I own.

And I suggest this is when the straw will break the camel's back. Lock and load and fight for our freedom.

Confiscation ALWAYS follows registration...ALWAYS!

Not good. Not Good.

[armedandsafe]

If you have a desire or need to get sick to your stomach, google < new york "gun confiscation" > I was looking for the New York confiscation of registered guns. I found, in addition to New York, Lousianna, Kansas, Pennsylvania and others.

Pops

[dge479]

and you can add Brittain, Canada, and Austrailia to the list of registration=confiscation

[Marlin T]

This thread is making me sick, so much so that I can't or better not express my feelings here except to say that this is more proof that the Dem party is the Unconstitutional party.

[kerk]

Originally Posted by GunHugger

I will NEVER register any gun that I own.

And I suggest this is when the straw will break the camel's back. Lock and load and fight for our freedom.

Confiscation ALWAYS follows registration...ALWAYS!

Agreed. At some point, some action will ignite the powder keg. I will guess that that action will be some act of resistance or civil disobedience.

But since this issue is that of ultimate 'gun confiscation' (which they are trying to work up to in baby steps), I'm afraid that resistance may be violent, 'unless' we are able to make it to 2010 and shut down this train at the polls.

I'm sure the first shot at Concord was not an easy one to take, but the King added one straw too many. 'Our' king is government in general.......all levels. They do not know when to stop. Tax, regulate, control..........continually increasing..........all at the point of a gun.

Total control of the populace is the goal of the statist's. Disarming them is required to attain it.

[kerk]

Originally Posted by Haligan

See while I agree with whole heartedly, I didn't have a choice.
Ok, mabe I did have a choice. Here in the garbage state of New Jersey you have to get a Pistol purchace permit to buy a handgun. You apply to your local Police Dept. Usually takes at least a month.
This is an automatic registration.
So like I said, my choice was not to ever own a legal handgun, or go through this Registration.
So if they ever start confiscations on a large scale, they'll probably start in a place like New Jersey.

I know, for everyone who lives elsewhere, you guys are like," whewww ! Glad it's not gonna be where I live ! "

Well here's the thing and you guys better be wise to it; No matter where it starts we're all gonna be effected so you better not sit silent when it starts somewhere else, cause rest assured they'll get around to you eventually.

Don't leave us dangling in the wind.

You got that right.

The 'boil the frog slowly' technique can be utilized in two ways:

1, Introduce 'mild' changes in state or federal laws over an extended period as to anesthetize the populace to the changes, and keep resistance low with each new restriction.

2. Implement a radical action in a small area, such as taking their guns. They will do it, then see how much heat it creates, and if it flies, they let things cool, then pick the next location, and continue.

All you can do is hope for a 'Braveheart' to light the fuse, or you follow the rest of the sheep into the pen.

And the longer it takes for a 'Braveheart' to appear, the more likely that all the sheep will be penned.