Colt 1911A1 Contract - The Firearms Forum

asmotj · 08-25-2009, 09:31 PM

HI all am looking for some expert opinion on this Argentinean beauty...

Serial number is less than 200 1XX
The Serial number is not visible(on purpose)
The importer is CAI "Century Arms" ST ALBANS VT
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and it has
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and
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these markings
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TWO experts say

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gherovici and Clawson

Te "IP"-marked pistols are both authentic Argentine and mysterious. Several hypotheses have been advanced as to the meaning of the markings and indeed the for both the markings and the pistols themselves.

This is an extremely rare variation. Gherovici notes only two observed (this was in the mid-'90's) and Clawson characterizes them as "extremely rare." Clawson illustrates IP S/N 401 from his collection in figure 8-19 on page 196 of his Colt .45 Government Models (Commercial Series), second edition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WJkuleck Author,
The M14 Complete Assembly Guide, The M1 Garand Complete Assembly Guide,The AR-15 Complete Assembly Guide and The AR-15 Complete Owner's Guide

Quote:

Originally Posted by Military pistols of Argentina by Alex Gherovci

(page 72)
The handgun shown in the opposite page( There is a drawn sketch of a pistol on the opposite page) is a caliber .45 ACP pistol, reported to be of Argentine origin. It was imported from that country to the U.S. It is beleived to be an Argentine Sistema Colt.

A definitive identification was not possible because the unusual and cryptic markings applied to the gun, and the fact that the pistol could not be inspected. From the observation of photographs it seems to have all the typical characteristics of a Sistema Colt. This pistol is fitted with checkered brown NOTE: MINE ARE BLACK plastic grips, with reinforcement righs around the screw holes. These grips seem to be of the U.S. WWII pattern and origin. It is not known if the grips are original or replacement.

About the markings: the serial number is located in several places, in what can be called an "Argentine Pattern"(actually a combination of the patterns used with the "Colt Modelo 1927" and the "Sistema Colt pistols.") The letters and numbers used to mark these pistols are of a styole the resembles that of an old typewriter. The meaning of the marking "I.P" is not known. Argentine sources suggest that it might stand for "Institutos Penales", the school for penitentiary personnel.

This pistol seems to have been made by the Fabrica Militar de Armas Portatiles Domingo Matheu (F.M.A.P.) It has been suggested that this pistol might be a prototype or a pre-production sample of the Sistema Colt, likey made with U.S. made and supplied parts, used to train F.M.A.P. personnel in the manufacture of these pistols. In the other hand, Sistema Colt pistols of early manufacture (low serial number) bear special markings that suggest the use of these last pistols as prototypes or evaluation guns, therefore the "I.P." pistols might be pre-production guns.

Other sources state that thesis is a "sterile" pistol, although the fact that these pistols were exported, almost cancel this possibility.
These guns are known among the collectors as "Argentine I.P. Pistol". At least two are known to be part of a collection in the U.S.

Although not much is know about these pistols, it was included in this section as a possible variation of the Sistema Colt, with the hope that more information will be available in the future, for a next edition of this book.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wjkuleck

Note: the pistol shown on the opposite page (in the book) shows the same "I.P." markings as (the one pictured in this thread) and it also shows the serial number on the barrel hood and the top of the slide. Also on the top of the slide above the serial number are the letters "I.P" just to the rear of the ejection port on the top of the slide.
Like this: With X representing the serial number.
I.P.
x
x
x

There is also some wild speculation that this 1911 was from the I.P. Inteligencia de la Policía Federal Argentina I.P. (Argentine Federal Police Intelligence) the same as our FBI? Secret Service?... which is not refuted by any expert but is discounted but not proven to be incorrect, by Gherovci that this is a Sanitized Argentinean Sistema.

This one is identified exactly the same way the book describes I just removed the serial number 1XX from the pictures.

I do not know anyone the BLUE BOOK but I was told there might be reference in the 29th edition page 555? anyone have that?

I appreciate any information about value & history. Wild speculation and solid research as fact are appreciated.

J

asmotj · 08-25-2009, 11:41 PM

value of plain old sistema

sling · 07-15-2012, 07:03 PM

hello, I just took one of these I.P. 1911's in on trade, its a nickel finish, ser# 451, left side of the slide is marked Century Arms Inc ST ALBANS VT, and Made in Argentina right side say Cal 45 ACP, top has the IP and the 451 from the ejection port to the rear sight. is this 1911 worth anything? i allowed $350.00 in trade because the finish is worn.

Jim K · 07-15-2012, 07:22 PM

To further muddy the waters, the "Made in Argentina" and the caliber markings were almost certainly put on by the importer when the guns were brought into the U.S. before 1968.

Jim

sling · 07-15-2012, 07:26 PM

any way of finding out a date range on ser# 451, did these come in nickel or was this one plated after?

wonderwhippet · 07-15-2012, 10:08 PM

Never came in nickel.

View Poll Results: How much is the Colt Argentinian 1911A1 IP Worth?
$500-$1000	7	63.64%
$1001-$1911	1	9.09%
$1911-$3500	0	0%
Really you posted a poll for this?	3	27.27%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

08-25-2009, 11:41 PM	#2
asmotj Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 12	Re: Colt 1911A1 Contract value of plain old sistema

07-15-2012, 07:03 PM	#3
sling Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 2	Re: Colt 1911A1 Contract hello, I just took one of these I.P. 1911's in on trade, its a nickel finish, ser# 451, left side of the slide is marked Century Arms Inc ST ALBANS VT, and Made in Argentina right side say Cal 45 ACP, top has the IP and the 451 from the ejection port to the rear sight. is this 1911 worth anything? i allowed $350.00 in trade because the finish is worn.

07-15-2012, 07:22 PM	#4
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: Colt 1911A1 Contract To further muddy the waters, the "Made in Argentina" and the caliber markings were almost certainly put on by the importer when the guns were brought into the U.S. before 1968. Jim

07-15-2012, 07:26 PM	#5
sling Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 2	Re: Colt 1911A1 Contract any way of finding out a date range on ser# 451, did these come in nickel or was this one plated after?

07-15-2012, 10:08 PM	#6
wonderwhippet Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,584	Re: Colt 1911A1 Contract Never came in nickel.