.22 a killer?

[ineedsoap16]

It is not my defense load of choice but I have spoken with many farmers who keep a .22 just for killing hogs. The say it is the best for such an endeavor. I know that pigs have very dense skulls so this doen't make sense. Is the .22that good a round at penetration at close distances? I am not a farmer nor have I ever killed a hog but any input would be interesting.

[RJay]

Why would you think a .22 isn't a killer? I grew up on a farm, we used a .22 rifle with 22 Shorts to kill hogs, cattle What ever. Using .22 Long Rifles I picked off 4 of a pack of dogs that were running our sheep. Each one was dead when it hit the ground. Hit in the right place a .22 will kill a man just as fast. Well, let me change that, if you shoot a man in the heart, it will take him 20 to 25 seconds to realize he's dead ( but that's true also wilth a 38 or 9MM ). Believe me, regardless of what the Internet warriors post, a .22 is not a pellet gun.

[Lotsdragon]

We used them to kill cattle and hogs as well, they are just a good all around gun to have handy.

[Win73]

I believe the statistics are that more people are killed by .22's than any other caliber.

Shot placement is even more important with a .22 than a major caliber but if you are shot in the right place with a .22, you are likely going to die.

[Danwin22]

Shoot your hog behind the ear.

[Thomas_1]

I don't know how true it is but I heard that a .22 will do more damage than a larger caliber. The reason is because the .22 would ricochet inside the body tearing up more organs and internal tissue.

[topper]

i have killed deer with a .22 rimfire when they were eating my garden. .22 rimfire, IMO, is just as deadly and dangerous as any other larger, more powerful cartridge. it all depends where the shot is placed. head, neck and they go down fast. gut shot and they slowly bleed out. wild stray dogs are the most prevalent here, they like to harrass the cows and therefore fair game. sometimes coyotes, but getting less and less because of all the building going on now.


Keep the chamber loaded!

[carver]

I personally know of two people that were killed with a .22. One was a cousin, and the other was a man I worked with. It can, and does kill. The .22 is cheap, readily available, and will get the job done. That's why so many are killed with this small caliber round.

[Crpdeth]

Originally Posted by ineedsoap16

but I have spoken with many farmers who keep a .22 just for killing hogs.

Soap,

I would never hunt wild, Texas hogs, with a .22 but we do trap quite a few of them, sometimes they will pack 4 or 5 hogs in a tiny trap before tripping it, so the .22 is the best caliber for putting them down to ensure that no meat is lost due to over penetration which would either ruin the meat of the hog you just laid down, or end up hitting another one.

I've seen some mighty mean boars who will ram into to side of the trap as I walk in closer, grunting and squealing, making ya a bit uncomfortable while waiting for him to get into position. In my experience the best shot placement is just above the eyes, if you know where the brain is and what angle it helps a lot (I'll take a pic)... I've seen 500 LB boars slam into the ground under their own weight and the only movement left is muscle reflexes in his back legs after being shot with my little girls Whalter P22.

.22LR is no play thing!

[kutaho]

Originally Posted by Crpdeth

Soap,

I would never hunt wild, Texas hogs, with a .22 but we do trap quite a few of them, sometimes they will pack 4 or 5 hogs in a tiny trap before tripping it, so the .22 is the best caliber for putting them down to ensure that no meat is lost due to over penetration which would either ruin the meat of the hog you just laid down, or end up hitting another one.

I've seen some mighty mean boars who will ram into to side of the trap as I walk in closer, grunting and squealing, making ya a bit uncomfortable while waiting for him to get into position. In my experience the best shot placement is just above the eyes, if you know where the brain is and what angle it helps a lot (I'll take a pic)... I've seen 500 LB boars slam into the ground under their own weight and the only movement left is muscle reflexes in his back legs after being shot with my little girls Whalter P22.

.22LR is no play thing!

Ohhh, thats a purdy skull Donny.
Nice bits of enamel on that one.

On the .22 question i couldn't add any more then
then whats already been said

[oldogy]

I have my granddad's old Stevens 22 that has killed many a hog and steer.
oldogy

[wingspar]

Originally Posted by oldogy

I have my granddad's old Stevens 22 that has killed many a hog and steer.
oldogy

Just joined this forum, and the last thing I thought I would see mentioned was an Old Stevens 22. My father gave me one when I was 5, tho I wasn’t allowed to keep it in my room till I was 14. That was in the early 1950's. That was the most accurate gun I’ve ever shot, course, my hand was a lot steadier in those days. Still have it, tho it’s been a few years since I’ve shot it. Can’t even find .22 shells at all right now.

As for killing power, I would Not want to be shot with one, and wasn’t that idiot that shot Reagan using a .22? Reagan didn’t even know he had been shot for a while, but the bullet penetrated in the right place, and he almost died from it. .22's are not toys.

[Crpdeth]

Thanks, Thomas...

[Teejay9]

Yes, it's a killer. TJ

[shootstr8er]

Originally Posted by Thomas_1

I don't know how true it is but I heard that a .22 will do more damage than a larger caliber. The reason is because the .22 would ricochet inside the body tearing up more organs and internal tissue.

only if the bullit hits bone at an angle to induce change of course.. it will tumble at lower speeds. i know because ive been shot with a .22 lr.

[fyimo]

The 22LR will kill as stated by many and when you can throw a few bricks of 22LR ammo in a drawer for $35 bucks it's a hell of an insurance policy if things go to hell and you can't buy any other ammo.

A friend of mine was a Green Beret in Vietnam and could carry anything he wanted and his pstol was a silenced 22LR pistol.

[JUNKKING]

I wouldn't want to be shot with one. I have dealt with so much pain in my life that pain doesn't hurt anymore other than my shoulder problem I now have which is constantly nagging like a tooth ache. But the thought of being shot with even a .22 would bring the hurt back to the pain IMO.

[Ursus]

It is a killer, NOT a stopper.

[Hammerslagger]

Yes any .22 Short, Long, or Long Rifle is likely to produce a serious and/or fatal wound.

However, it is not a good choice for personal defense (if you have a center fire caliber available) for several reasons, including that rim fire priming is less reliable than center fire, and that it tends to cause less actual tissue destruction (as opposed to stretching) than heavier calibers.

Even though it has excellent penetration at near perpendicular hits, its light bullet weight allows for easier deflection at lower angles of contact. It is especially notorious for hitting a rib and skidding around to the spine.

I have close personal knowledge of three human shootings involving 22's, and more indirect knowledge of several more. A friend lost a lung to one in 1987, and would have died without its surgical removal. However, he could have likely killed his assailant after being shot, had he been armed.

In 1978 a very large and physically powerful man at work was shot in the head with a 22. He slapped the pistol from the shooter's hand, and would certainly have bashed the much smaller and weaker shooter's brains out on a concrete factory floor if others present had not mobbed an stopped him. No one died.

When I was a boy (about 1957) a notorious bully named Manning (who had already previously badly beaten the shooter) announced that "I'm going to stomp your guts out" as he advanced on his intended victim. The shooter fired several 22 shorts (out of a W. German RG-10) at his feet while retreating, and one shot at Manning's torso. The bullet (.22 Short) luckily slipped between Manning's ribs, and punctured his heart. Most (not all) bullies are cowards. Coward Manning stopped his attack laid down and died.

After the FBI's "Black Tuesday" incident in Florida in 1986, the FBI got serious about handgun cartridge effectiveness. Their research findings were published for LE in the late 1980's. The FBI research confirms what history has demonstrated on countless occasions.

Such can be summarized as follows:

No bullet is certain to disable an assailant; but big heavy ones work better than small light ones.

Some individuals will continue fight when mortally wounded with multiple mortal wounds.

Brain shots are most likely to stop an assailant.

Other than a solid hit to the brain, an animal (beast or human) is usually incapacitated by loss of enough blood to deprive the brain of enough oxygen to remain conscious and direct voluntary actions. Such usually takes some time. Even if the heart is totally destroyed, the brain will be still capable of directing physical action for long enough for your assailant to empty most hand guns at you (typically at least 5 to 10 seconds).

Things like "ballistic energy levels", "shock effect", "wallop" "knock down", "temporary cavity" are basically myths relative to most handgun calibers. {My personal favorite example is magazine publisher Larry Flynt staying on his feet after two solid lower torso hits from a .44 Mag. out of a Ruger carbine. The third shot destroyed his lower spine, and dropped him.}

Reliable deep penetration with bigger diameter bullets has been proven in the laboratory and by history to be the most important factor in stopping dangerous animals, both two and four legged.

[Crpdeth]

We could (once again) compare calibers until the sun comes up... But the bottom line is that the .22 is at the lower end of the spectrum, but a well placed shot is deadly.

I can only draw from my experiences and have never met an aggressive man who came close to the size/weight of some of these hogs who drop like a rock with that well placed round.

I have to go back to the original question "Is the .22 that good a round at penetration at close distances?"

My answer, in my experience, is unarguably... Yes.


Crpdeth

[Hammerslagger]

There is no question that a well placed 22 out of even a short barrel handgun can be deadly. However "deadly" is not the same as "disabling" or "incapacitating".

Many persons reading these threads are unwisely trusting their safety to a 22 RF when it is not necessary to do so.

Enlightening those who wish to learn is what I see a the useful purpose of this thread.

In the late 1980's a well known FBI report noted that perfect shot placement was difficult to obtain in in real life shooting incidents. That while a 22 was commonly used to kill hogs, if the shot placement was off by even a small amount, "the pig goes wild and the process of killing becomes rather lengthy and involved" according to this report.

The 22 LR 40 grain out of a rifle @1335 fps (or even 1250fps) is an excellent near perpendicular penetrator, especially at 25 yards when it has achieved gyroscopic stability. It often did better against early police body armor than the .357 or .44 Mag out of any revolver. However pistols are lucky to propel this bullet at 1100 fps and it usually impacts the target before it can "settle down" fully stabilized. This combined with light bullet weight and the difficulty of making perfect shots in a violent confrontation, likely accounts for 22's hitting a human rib or skull and "skidding", as opposed to "drilling" or punching through.

The hero (or foolish person) as one may wish to regard him in TranterUK's "Video of a very brave man" thread demonstrates that some men will take multiple center-fire hits and keep coming at you until they take a solid brain hit or their brain shuts down from loss of blood. These individuals are not common; but they do exist. One can never predict when one may encounter such a person.

[gdmoody]

Sad to say, but my Grandfather killed himself with a .22 Long Rifle to the heart. I would have to say that the .22 is a killer!!

[Crpdeth]

Originally Posted by Hammerslagger

There is no question that a well placed 22 out of even a short barrel handgun can be deadly. However "deadly" is not the same as "disabling" or "incapacitating".

Many persons reading these threads are unwisely trusting their safety to a 22 RF when it is not necessary to do so.

Enlightening those who wish to learn is what I see a the useful purpose of this thread.

In the late 1980's a well known FBI report noted that perfect shot placement was difficult to obtain in in real life shooting incidents. That while a 22 was commonly used to kill hogs, if the shot placement was off by even a small amount, "the pig goes wild and the process of killing becomes rather lengthy and involved" according to this report.

The 22 LR 40 grain out of a rifle @1335 fps (or even 1250fps) is an excellent near perpendicular penetrator, especially at 25 yards when it has achieved gyroscopic stability. It often did better against early police body armor than the .357 or .44 Mag out of any revolver. However pistols are lucky to propel this bullet at 1100 fps and it usually impacts the target before it can "settle down" fully stabilized. This combined with light bullet weight and the difficulty of making perfect shots in a violent confrontation, likely accounts for 22's hitting a human rib or skull and "skidding", as opposed to "drilling" or punching through.

The hero (or foolish person) as one may wish to regard him in TranterUK's "Video of a very brave man" thread demonstrates that some men will take multiple center-fire hits and keep coming at you until they take a solid brain hit or their brain shuts down from loss of blood. These individuals are not common; but they do exist. One can never predict when one may encounter such a person.

Actually, "dead" is disabled and incapicated.

Remember we are responding to the question concerning "Killing hogs at close distances"... Were we discussing self defense and violent confrontations I would quickly go with another caliber and side with you on many points, we are not...

Anyone who is putting a hog down needs to know where the brain pan is, if he doesn't, then certainly learning from someone more qualified for awhile is a good idea, but it's not hard to figure out where it is after having seen it once or twice... I agree that if the hog were shot between the eyes by an unlearned harvester, the projectile would travel into the nasal cavity, through to the mouth, causing lots of unnecessary pain and suffering... Any caliber short of a cannonball would perform this way.

Again, I hesitate to debate many points made by you concerning the use of this caliber in a self defense scenario because that is only adding confusion to the topic since it has nothing to do with the author's original question.

We do have a good forum for that where this has been thoroughly discussed, but wouldn't mind revisiting it again, over in DEFENSE TACTICS & WEAPONS.


Crpdeth

[da357mag]

Unfortunatly I had a relitive we called "Grampa garten", I think he was my fathers uncle,
he also killed himself with a .22 handgun shot himself tru the brain and they said he was
deaad instantly. I was just a kid so I didn't find out the deatials intil much later

[300 H&H]

Food for thought...

I know a couple of guys that run meat lockers here in good old midwest. One had a 1,200 lb steer leave his down town establishment, and made several "parade laps" around the county court house with my friend and his helpers hot behind it....The cops got it cornered in the fair grounds. He had shot it with a 22lr. like he always had. Another guy from a different locker had a 22lr failure as well, again on a large steer. They both are now using 22 Winchester mags, with solids. Not that the 22lr is not enough, as these guys will tell you. It just makes sense to them to spend a few more cents, and make sure the job gets done the FIRST time, and there is no second time. Just thought I would let you know what the "pro's" in my neck of the woods are doing.

Best regards, Kirk