Getting Something Out of Extending Ban - The Firearms Forum

sck · 04-30-2003, 01:38 AM

I was just thinking about the probable extension of the so-called assault weapons ban and was wondering if there wasn't something good that we could get out of it. Here is the situation as I see it. Bush will probably extend the ban because it would be political suicide in an election year not to do so. The supposed reason for the ban as put forth by the anti gunners is, in broad terms, public safety. Why don't we take them at their word and accecpt the renewal of the ban, grudgingly of course, but only after we insist on a few new clauses--just to make the nation safer of course. For example, what about a clause that states clearly that local or state laws cannot override the second ammendment. That would mean no state or local laws like Kalifornia and Taxachusetts, or bans on things like folding stocks as in Cleveland or merely owning high capicity magazines as in Cincinnati. This way everyone knows the rules, they are clear and eazy to follow. Another clause we could insist they add to make the nation safer would be another amnesty for NFA weapons. This clearly is a safety issue--wouldn't the anti's rather know what is out there than not know and wouldn't there be a few people who would be happy for another amnesty? And then what about a clasue that would allow interstate transportation of an inherited collection of firearms. As it stands now it is almost impossible for an individual to retrieve a collection left to him or her from some states. They end up going through a dealer, often at great expense. In the name of safety of course, there could be some provision for the CLEO in the new owners jurisdiction to be notified or some such thing. Finally, what about a provision that would allow anyone who legally owns a firearm (long gun or hand gun) to send it to a licensed dealer, gunsmith or manufacturer through the mail. It's clearly safer to permit it and control it than to make it illeagle and have people try to get around it. See, I'm just concerned about all our safety. Well, it's all just a thought. Just a hope that maybe we could get something out of what otherwise appears to be the inevitable. Your thoughts?

04-30-2003, 05:34 AM

The way politics work in Congress, when it comes back up for renewal, all sorts of baggage will likely be tacked on it from various parties - such as a requirement that all chickens have their nose hairs plucked twice per month.

Now this may be a good thing; with enough baggage tacked on, it will never pass.

Welcome back Steve, long time no see!

tuckerd1 · 04-30-2003, 07:31 AM

Welcome to TFF sck! Glad to see you here.

outdoorsman260 · 04-30-2003, 07:46 AM

Political suicide NOT to renew?

Didn't Bush wine because the majority of gun owners were behind him.

It would be political suicide if he does renew the bill

Just my $.02

By the way, welcome to TFF.

04-30-2003, 07:48 AM

Hello sck and welcome.

danged if you do, and danged if you don't...

I suppose, it'll be a crap shoot.

tuckerd1 · 04-30-2003, 07:57 AM

Well, if it is political suicide for Bush, then who the hell will we vote for in 2004? If Bush does renew, then conservatives better come up with a good replacement fast. I definitely will not vote for any of the primary candidates I'm seeing so far. Especially not a national level Democrat.

1952Sniper · 04-30-2003, 08:00 AM

Welcome to TFF, sck.

I agree with outdoorsman260. It is political suicide for Bush to support renewal of the ban. He's attempting to throw a bone to the Democrats, and it's going to end up costing him a second term. We gun owners need to send a clear message that you don't barter our rights for political gain.

Xracer · 04-30-2003, 08:42 AM

Hi sck....welcome to TFF.

It's always nice to see new members posting their opinions.

armedandsafe · 04-30-2003, 01:35 PM

OK, here is a thought. Let's _really_ do something for the safety of Americans.

Using the same criteria and scientific studies which were used to pass the "It's a Crime, Bill," let's add a clause that _anything_ proved as or more unsafe than firearms be also banned. Now there is a case of unintended consequences waiting to happen.

No more 5-gallon buckets? No swimming pools? Of course,,,,no cars.

It's for the children, doncha know.

280freak · 04-30-2003, 06:27 PM

Steve! Dang good to see ya posting again. Nothin' like jumpin' in with both feet on yer first post!

04-30-2003, 08:59 PM

Hi there sck! Glad your here finally, and like .280 said you stepped right up to the plate.

sck · 04-30-2003, 11:02 PM

Thanks for all your warm welcome folks.

I'm right there with you regarding the lack of support from the Bush administration. The basic problem is, as you have pointed out, the Rep. Party knows that we have no where else to go. Yes, we could vote Libertarian, but in a presidential race there is no realistic hope for a third party candidate right now. The real question is whether we are just going to complain and gripe or be clever enough to get something positive out of this. Politics can be defined as the search for power, and if we can get something that we want from an otherwise bad situation, then we have gained at least some power. So the questions are: 1. do we simply complain about being sold out or taken for granted again or do we conceive a strategy that gets us something, and 2. if we're going to put forward a strategy that will get something, how do we go about it--letters to sympathetic members of congress? NRA? other?

Thanks again folks. I sure would like to hear some more comments and creative ideas from you folks that may be able to turn out something from a bad situation.

Smokin Guns · 05-01-2003, 06:37 PM

I want to give you a "BIG" TFF Welcome!...next...Number two works the best!...

04-30-2003, 01:38 AM	#1
sck V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 117	Getting Something Out of Extending Ban I was just thinking about the probable extension of the so-called assault weapons ban and was wondering if there wasn't something good that we could get out of it. Here is the situation as I see it. Bush will probably extend the ban because it would be political suicide in an election year not to do so. The supposed reason for the ban as put forth by the anti gunners is, in broad terms, public safety. Why don't we take them at their word and accecpt the renewal of the ban, grudgingly of course, but only after we insist on a few new clauses--just to make the nation safer of course. For example, what about a clause that states clearly that local or state laws cannot override the second ammendment. That would mean no state or local laws like Kalifornia and Taxachusetts, or bans on things like folding stocks as in Cleveland or merely owning high capicity magazines as in Cincinnati. This way everyone knows the rules, they are clear and eazy to follow. Another clause we could insist they add to make the nation safer would be another amnesty for NFA weapons. This clearly is a safety issue--wouldn't the anti's rather know what is out there than not know and wouldn't there be a few people who would be happy for another amnesty? And then what about a clasue that would allow interstate transportation of an inherited collection of firearms. As it stands now it is almost impossible for an individual to retrieve a collection left to him or her from some states. They end up going through a dealer, often at great expense. In the name of safety of course, there could be some provision for the CLEO in the new owners jurisdiction to be notified or some such thing. Finally, what about a provision that would allow anyone who legally owns a firearm (long gun or hand gun) to send it to a licensed dealer, gunsmith or manufacturer through the mail. It's clearly safer to permit it and control it than to make it illeagle and have people try to get around it. See, I'm just concerned about all our safety. Well, it's all just a thought. Just a hope that maybe we could get something out of what otherwise appears to be the inevitable. Your thoughts? --> Last edited by sck; 04-30-2003 at 01:47 AM..

04-30-2003, 07:31 AM	#3
tuckerd1 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Paint Rock Valley, Alabama Posts: 3,147	Welcome to TFF sck! Glad to see you here. __________________ You can call Don, You can call me Tuck, Just don't call me late for suppa!

04-30-2003, 07:46 AM	#4
outdoorsman260 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: southcentral, PA Posts: 267	Political suicide NOT to renew? Didn't Bush wine because the majority of gun owners were behind him. It would be political suicide if he does renew the bill Just my $.02 By the way, welcome to TFF. __________________ My Website Last edited by outdoorsman260; 04-30-2003 at 07:48 AM..

04-30-2003, 07:57 AM	#6
tuckerd1 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Paint Rock Valley, Alabama Posts: 3,147	Well, if it is political suicide for Bush, then who the hell will we vote for in 2004? If Bush does renew, then conservatives better come up with a good replacement fast. I definitely will not vote for any of the primary candidates I'm seeing so far. Especially not a national level Democrat. __________________ You can call Don, You can call me Tuck, Just don't call me late for suppa!

05-01-2003, 06:37 PM	#13
Smokin Guns Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: "Gun Culture Members Clubhouse"... Posts: 4,463	SCK...! I want to give you a "BIG" TFF Welcome!...next...Number two works the best!... __________________

04-30-2003, 05:34 AM	#2
Guest Adnanced Senior Member Posts: n/a	The way politics work in Congress, when it comes back up for renewal, all sorts of baggage will likely be tacked on it from various parties - such as a requirement that all chickens have their nose hairs plucked twice per month. Now this may be a good thing; with enough baggage tacked on, it will never pass. Welcome back Steve, long time no see!

04-30-2003, 07:48 AM	#5
Zigzag2 Adnanced Senior Member Posts: n/a	Hello sck and welcome. danged if you do, and danged if you don't... I suppose, it'll be a crap shoot.

04-30-2003, 08:00 AM	#7
1952Sniper Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 5,138	Welcome to TFF, sck. I agree with outdoorsman260. It is political suicide for Bush to support renewal of the ban. He's attempting to throw a bone to the Democrats, and it's going to end up costing him a second term. We gun owners need to send a clear message that you don't barter our rights for political gain.

04-30-2003, 08:42 AM	#8
Xracer TFF Admin Staff Mediator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet! Posts: 9,144	Hi sck....welcome to TFF. It's always nice to see new members posting their opinions.

04-30-2003, 01:35 PM	#9
armedandsafe Former Guest Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Moses Lake, WA Posts: 10,344	OK, here is a thought. Let's _really_ do something for the safety of Americans. Using the same criteria and scientific studies which were used to pass the "It's a Crime, Bill," let's add a clause that _anything_ proved as or more unsafe than firearms be also banned. Now there is a case of unintended consequences waiting to happen. No more 5-gallon buckets? No swimming pools? Of course,,,,no cars. It's for the children, doncha know.

04-30-2003, 06:27 PM	#10
280freak Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Sitting at my computer Posts: 1,581	Steve! Dang good to see ya posting again. Nothin' like jumpin' in with both feet on yer first post!

04-30-2003, 08:59 PM	#11
cointoss2 Adnanced Senior Member Posts: n/a	Hi there sck! Glad your here finally, and like .280 said you stepped right up to the plate.

04-30-2003, 11:02 PM	#12
sck V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 117	Thanks for all your warm welcome folks. I'm right there with you regarding the lack of support from the Bush administration. The basic problem is, as you have pointed out, the Rep. Party knows that we have no where else to go. Yes, we could vote Libertarian, but in a presidential race there is no realistic hope for a third party candidate right now. The real question is whether we are just going to complain and gripe or be clever enough to get something positive out of this. Politics can be defined as the search for power, and if we can get something that we want from an otherwise bad situation, then we have gained at least some power. So the questions are: 1. do we simply complain about being sold out or taken for granted again or do we conceive a strategy that gets us something, and 2. if we're going to put forward a strategy that will get something, how do we go about it--letters to sympathetic members of congress? NRA? other? Thanks again folks. I sure would like to hear some more comments and creative ideas from you folks that may be able to turn out something from a bad situation.