Having trouble finding a rifle. - The Firearms Forum

user · 10-17-2009, 03:46 PM

One of my boys has expressed an interest in acquiring a bolt action rifle. I'm thinking to get him one in .22LR. Thing is, I'd like to get one that's available in stainless, with a wood or laminated wood stock, and adjustable iron sights. Magazine-fed as opposed to tube-fed would be best, I'm thinking. Less capacity per reload, but with multiple magazines pre-loaded, that's no problem.

But I'm having a really hard time identifying such a critter. The closest I've been able to come to what I want is the Marlin 983S.

Any suggestions?

Zane71464 · 10-17-2009, 04:00 PM

The question is what kind of price range are you thinking?

user · 10-17-2009, 04:03 PM

They're all relatively inexpensive, it looks like to me, so I wasn't even thinking about price. But over like five or six hundred is going to be a deal-killer for me, I reckon.

fedupdon · 10-17-2009, 04:42 PM

i like my marlin 7 shots and removeable clip

mr.t7024 · 10-17-2009, 07:06 PM

Check out the ruger 10/22,what about what he would like,or is it for U

user · 10-18-2009, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrt

Check out the ruger 10/22,what about what he would like,or is it for U

Bolt action required. Closest things I've seen are the Marlin 983S and Winchester Wildcat.

Terry_P · 10-18-2009, 10:09 AM

Boy does that bring me back. I bought a Marlin Model 80 when I was in high school. I got it direct mail order before all the firearms laws stopped that. I still own the rifle and it is in fine shape and I mounted a regular riflescope via groove mounts on it. I sold off the other ones I owned and kept that one because it has always been my most accurate. I'm on social security now.

It is a seven shot bolt that is fed with a detachable magazine (I won't start that stuff again). They are still available although I don't think they are manufactured in that model anymore:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/909444609...el_80_bolt.htm

Bobitis · 10-18-2009, 02:12 PM

How old is your son?

I would start him off with a single shot rifle.
Patience is a good thing when learning firearms.

I still have my first rifle and would not trade it for anything.
Mid 60's Winchester single shot and it's very accurate.

You should find something in a pawn shop for less than a hundred bucks easy.

I buy some stuff from these guys. I like the warranty.
http://www.galleryofguns.com/Genie/

You can get a VERY good CZ rifle for less than you're thinking. Model 452

And for all things rimfire related, visit here:

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/

Check out the whole site. It will take days/weeks/months to absorb all the information. But it's a start.

Buying a .22 is a lot more involved than picking out a pair of slacks.
.22s are addictive.

Joe M · 10-18-2009, 02:17 PM

You may want to consider the Savage MK II-FSS w/accu-trigger. It's not a bad rifle for a synthetic stock and the trade off is the rifle coming with the accu-trigger.

I don't know for sure, but it might be possible to get a MK II-G wood stock from Numrich that fits the MK II-FSS?

http://www.savagearms.com/markiifss.htm

K75RT · 10-18-2009, 03:26 PM

The Ruger 77/22 is available in SS and laminated stock, they are great shooters.

UncleFudd · 10-18-2009, 04:41 PM

USER; AN INTERESTING QUESTION AND ONE FACED AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER BY US ALL, EITHER FOR PERSONAL USE OR FOR AS YOU SAY A SON, OR GRANDSON OR DAUGHTER ETC.
I HAVE THE ISSUE NOW WITH ALL OF THE ABOVE AND I THINK I OWN OR HAVE OWNED AND OR SHOT MOST OF THE BRANDS OVER THE YEARS.
BUT SPECIFICALLY TO YOUR QUESTION AND AS ALREADY POSTED,THERE ARE EXCELLENT GUNS IN SEVERAL BRANDS AND MODELS AND I AM SURE AT THE PRICE YOU ARE WILLING TO INVET. FOR IT WILL NO DOUBT BE AN INVESTMENT FOR LIFE FOR SOMEONE IF IT IS A FIRST 22 OR FIRST GUN, PERIOD.
I DECIDED MANY YRS AGO TO HAVE A NYLON 66 FOR EACH OF MY GRANDKIDS AS THEY REACHED THE AGE TO WANT AND TO OWN THEIR FIRST GUN. OF COURSE THIS WAS FIRST APPROVED BY THE PARENTS. I STILL OWN AND REGULARLY SHOOT THE FIRST 66 I PURCHASED BACK IN 59 FOR $68 NEW.
I ALSO OWN SEVERAL MODELS OF WINCHESTER AND NOW AS I WAS GOING TO USE FOR EXAMPLE AND TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, A SAVAGE MARK11.
I HAD NEVER OWNED A SAVAGE AS I DID NOT THINK THEY WERE A QUALITY FIREARM. I RECENTLY HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO BUY THIS SAVAGE AT A VERY GOOD PRICE AND DECIDED TO TRY ONE AND I HAVE BEEN ESPECIALLY HAPPY WITH IT THUS FAR.
IT IS THE LAMINATED, THUMBHOLE STOCK WITH THE HEAVY SS BARREL, BOLT ACTION AND 7 SHOT MAGAZINE.
I MOUNTED AN INEXPENSIVE SCOPE ON IT AND I CAN TELL YOU IT IS A TRUE TACK DRIVER. I AM TRULY IMPRESSED WITH ITS ACCURACY AND ACTION AND COULD NOT BE MORE PLEASED OVERALL.
SO AMONG OTHERS I WOULD HIGHLY RECOMMEND THIS LITTLE GUN WHICH YOU WILL FIND IS QUITE A BIT LESS EXPENSIVE INITIALLY.
OTHERS HAVE MENTIONED THE CZ AND OF COURSE THE REMINGTON AND WINCHESTER MODELS AND NOW SMITH AND WESSON HAS A 22LR IN THE MARKET AS WELL.

IF IT WERE ME AND I WAS LOOKING AGAIN (AREN'T WE ALWAYS) I WOULD STAY WITH A KNOWN BRAND AT LEAST AND THEN LOOK FOR THE BEST DEAL AS MOST OF THESE LITTLE GUNS WILL BE IN EXCELLENT CONDITION AS SHOOTERS EVEN IF SOMETIMES THE STOCKS ETC MAY BE A LITTLE USED OR HARD FOR WEAR.

GOOD LUCK AND CONGRATS ON BEING THERE FOR THE BOY.

UF

Bobitis · 10-18-2009, 04:56 PM

CAPS LOCK off please.

UncleFudd · 10-18-2009, 05:06 PM

Sorry BOBITIS;
I am a one finger typist and did not realize they were on until most of my reply was on paper. I do not know how to erase or change it once it was done so I continued to the end in caps knowing full well that I would be castigated by someone with hurt feelings.
But I assure you and others before anyone else is injured, there was no malice aforethought intended or otherwise and I was not swearing at a single person.
I have only the utmost respect for all who post or read or whatever on these forums.
My bad and my apology.
Nuff said, and oh yes the caps are off!!!

UF

isnipe · 10-18-2009, 08:04 PM

get a winchester wildcat its bolt action and comes with a 5 round mag. and 3 10 round mags. SUPER ACCURATE,GREAT STARTER RIFLE THAT WONT BREAK THE BANK!ITZ WORTH EVERY PENNY! AND ITS ONLY 210 TO ABOUT 240 BUCKS!It is a real tack driver!

gazzmann · 10-18-2009, 08:53 PM

I will stick to my Remington 510 and Winchester 67 single shots. Tack drivin' son of a guns. (no pun intended)
Check out the gun shows and pawn shops, some times there are some pretty good deals on bolt action single shot 22's.
Just ran across a Winchester 121 in really nice shape for a $100.00. I'll probably go back and do some horse trading on it.
As a kid hunting with a single shot, you learned to make that shot count if you wanted meat on the table.

user · 10-19-2009, 08:52 AM

Thanks for the link to the gun from Savage, Joe, and to the CZ, Bobitis (btw, Tractor Supply is having a sale on Kong toys). And to everyone for the comments. I suppose I should have clarified, that the "boy" I want to get the rifle for, although inexperienced, is 23 years old. He wants to learn to kill paper, and has an interest in very accurate shooting. So I'm not really looking for a "youth" model, and as he learns more about it, I expect he'll hang on to whatever I end up getting for a long time. So quality is important.

cdf50 · 10-20-2009, 03:31 PM

I would definately take a look at the savage modles,i have several in different calibers and styles and they all are accurate and the price is hard to beat!

amiley1@comcast.net · 10-20-2009, 04:02 PM

Hello, I Bought My Grandson A CZ Bolt Action. It Has 5 Or !0 Rounds Magazines. It Is What A Lot Of European Countries Use To Train Their People For The Olympics. They Are Super Accurate. You Might Ask About Them At Your Local Gun Store. Or They Have A Web Sight.

pawn · 10-21-2009, 11:27 AM

synthetic stock but the price is nice:

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...s_id/411537380

fprefect · 10-21-2009, 11:38 AM

I like your choice of a bolt action as it will emphasize the importance of accuracy. Be it a single shot or with a clip, Ruger makes some reasonably priced high quality rimfires, as do most of the "well known" rifle manufacturers such as Winchester and Remington all of which should produce very good accuracy with either iron sights or a 4X scope.

F. Prefect

user · 10-21-2009, 05:53 PM

Thanks, again, y'all.

I've pretty much come to the conclusion that the CZ 452 Lux will do what I want, with the exception of its not being available in stainless. Interesting, it's got a 20 or so inch barrel, and they make a couple of other models in different lengths. The 513 (no relationship to the famous Remington of that designation) is a shorter and simpler design, less expensive, and has a sixteen and a half inch barrel (no checkering on the stock, nonadjustable trigger). The 452 "Ultra Lux" is the same thing, but with a twenty-eight inch barrel.

Bobitis reminded me, offline, that the average .22LR cartridge's powder is pretty much expended by the time the bullet gets fifteen or sixteen inches down the barrel, so what, I wondered, was the point of a 28" barrel? Further research on CZ's website suggested (and it took a bit of diligence to find it) that the pure and simple, only reason for that extended barrel length is to improve accuracy with the iron sights because of the longer sight radius.

I've also read rumors to the effect that the 452 will be discontinued this year; that there'll be a new and improved version out next year with a different model number; and that there will be price increases at the end of this year.

pawn · 10-21-2009, 06:34 PM

Excellent choice! The hogback stock lends itself well to iron sight shooting and I have also heard from numerous sources that the model 452 will be replaced next year. IMHO, you can't go wrong with a CZ. I own a 452 Varmint and a 511 auto loader. The 511 was discontinued several years back... mine has the lux-type stock which I like very much.

Good shooting to you and your son!

Joe M · 10-21-2009, 09:11 PM

I would agree, the CZ is an excellent choice. Everything I've heard and read about them has all been good.

GregD · 10-22-2009, 02:35 PM

I have the 452-2E ZKM w/sights. A very accurate rifle. I use the single shot magazine for most of my shooting.

fprefect · 10-22-2009, 05:32 PM

After all the excellent rifles that were suggested as a first gun, I really didn't expect User to drop half a grand on his son's "first" rifle. I'd hate to think what #5 might cost you.

Uncle Fudd, you hit the nail squarely on the head.

And by the way, the 28 inch tube will not only produce superior accuracy, but an increase in muzzle velocity as well. Why scrimp now? Buy it.

F. Prefect

10-17-2009, 03:46 PM	#1
user Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northern piedmont of Va. and Middle of Nowhere, West Virginia Posts: 1,013	Having trouble finding a rifle. One of my boys has expressed an interest in acquiring a bolt action rifle. I'm thinking to get him one in .22LR. Thing is, I'd like to get one that's available in stainless, with a wood or laminated wood stock, and adjustable iron sights. Magazine-fed as opposed to tube-fed would be best, I'm thinking. Less capacity per reload, but with multiple magazines pre-loaded, that's no problem. But I'm having a really hard time identifying such a critter. The closest I've been able to come to what I want is the Marlin 983S. Any suggestions? __________________ ===== Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state. --> Last edited by user; 10-17-2009 at 03:48 PM..

10-17-2009, 04:00 PM	#2
Zane71464 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Ohio NRA Member Contributor Posts: 5,351	Re: Having trouble finding a rifle. The question is what kind of price range are you thinking?

10-17-2009, 04:03 PM	#3
user Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northern piedmont of Va. and Middle of Nowhere, West Virginia Posts: 1,013	Re: Having trouble finding a rifle. They're all relatively inexpensive, it looks like to me, so I wasn't even thinking about price. But over like five or six hundred is going to be a deal-killer for me, I reckon. __________________ ===== Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

10-17-2009, 04:42 PM	#4
fedupdon V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 307	Re: Having trouble finding a rifle. i like my marlin 7 shots and removeable clip

10-18-2009, 10:09 AM	#7
Terry_P Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: NH Posts: 2,513	Re: Having trouble finding a rifle. Boy does that bring me back. I bought a Marlin Model 80 when I was in high school. I got it direct mail order before all the firearms laws stopped that. I still own the rifle and it is in fine shape and I mounted a regular riflescope via groove mounts on it. I sold off the other ones I owned and kept that one because it has always been my most accurate. I'm on social security now. It is a seven shot bolt that is fed with a detachable magazine (I won't start that stuff again). They are still available although I don't think they are manufactured in that model anymore: http://www.gunsamerica.com/909444609...el_80_bolt.htm __________________ NRA and NAHC Life "Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms." -Aristotle

10-17-2009, 07:06 PM	#5
mr.t7024 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Near a brook & pond in Ma Posts: 734	Re: Having trouble finding a rifle. Check out the ruger 10/22,what about what he would like,or is it for U

10-18-2009, 02:12 PM	#8
Bobitis Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 6,612	Re: Having trouble finding a rifle. How old is your son? I would start him off with a single shot rifle. Patience is a good thing when learning firearms. I still have my first rifle and would not trade it for anything. Mid 60's Winchester single shot and it's very accurate. You should find something in a pawn shop for less than a hundred bucks easy. I buy some stuff from these guys. I like the warranty. http://www.galleryofguns.com/Genie/ You can get a VERY good CZ rifle for less than you're thinking. Model 452 And for all things rimfire related, visit here: http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/ Check out the whole site. It will take days/weeks/months to absorb all the information. But it's a start. Buying a .22 is a lot more involved than picking out a pair of slacks. .22s are addictive. __________________ ^.^ A point in every direction is the same as having no point at all

10-18-2009, 02:17 PM	#9
Joe M V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Nebraska Posts: 52	Re: Having trouble finding a rifle. You may want to consider the Savage MK II-FSS w/accu-trigger. It's not a bad rifle for a synthetic stock and the trade off is the rifle coming with the accu-trigger. I don't know for sure, but it might be possible to get a MK II-G wood stock from Numrich that fits the MK II-FSS? http://www.savagearms.com/markiifss.htm __________________ Joe

10-18-2009, 03:26 PM	#10
K75RT V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Litchfield County, CT Posts: 309	Re: Having trouble finding a rifle. The Ruger 77/22 is available in SS and laminated stock, they are great shooters.

10-18-2009, 04:41 PM	#11
UncleFudd Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Phoenix, Az Contributor Posts: 549	Re: Having trouble finding a rifle. USER; AN INTERESTING QUESTION AND ONE FACED AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER BY US ALL, EITHER FOR PERSONAL USE OR FOR AS YOU SAY A SON, OR GRANDSON OR DAUGHTER ETC. I HAVE THE ISSUE NOW WITH ALL OF THE ABOVE AND I THINK I OWN OR HAVE OWNED AND OR SHOT MOST OF THE BRANDS OVER THE YEARS. BUT SPECIFICALLY TO YOUR QUESTION AND AS ALREADY POSTED,THERE ARE EXCELLENT GUNS IN SEVERAL BRANDS AND MODELS AND I AM SURE AT THE PRICE YOU ARE WILLING TO INVET. FOR IT WILL NO DOUBT BE AN INVESTMENT FOR LIFE FOR SOMEONE IF IT IS A FIRST 22 OR FIRST GUN, PERIOD. I DECIDED MANY YRS AGO TO HAVE A NYLON 66 FOR EACH OF MY GRANDKIDS AS THEY REACHED THE AGE TO WANT AND TO OWN THEIR FIRST GUN. OF COURSE THIS WAS FIRST APPROVED BY THE PARENTS. I STILL OWN AND REGULARLY SHOOT THE FIRST 66 I PURCHASED BACK IN 59 FOR $68 NEW. I ALSO OWN SEVERAL MODELS OF WINCHESTER AND NOW AS I WAS GOING TO USE FOR EXAMPLE AND TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, A SAVAGE MARK11. I HAD NEVER OWNED A SAVAGE AS I DID NOT THINK THEY WERE A QUALITY FIREARM. I RECENTLY HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO BUY THIS SAVAGE AT A VERY GOOD PRICE AND DECIDED TO TRY ONE AND I HAVE BEEN ESPECIALLY HAPPY WITH IT THUS FAR. IT IS THE LAMINATED, THUMBHOLE STOCK WITH THE HEAVY SS BARREL, BOLT ACTION AND 7 SHOT MAGAZINE. I MOUNTED AN INEXPENSIVE SCOPE ON IT AND I CAN TELL YOU IT IS A TRUE TACK DRIVER. I AM TRULY IMPRESSED WITH ITS ACCURACY AND ACTION AND COULD NOT BE MORE PLEASED OVERALL. SO AMONG OTHERS I WOULD HIGHLY RECOMMEND THIS LITTLE GUN WHICH YOU WILL FIND IS QUITE A BIT LESS EXPENSIVE INITIALLY. OTHERS HAVE MENTIONED THE CZ AND OF COURSE THE REMINGTON AND WINCHESTER MODELS AND NOW SMITH AND WESSON HAS A 22LR IN THE MARKET AS WELL. IF IT WERE ME AND I WAS LOOKING AGAIN (AREN'T WE ALWAYS) I WOULD STAY WITH A KNOWN BRAND AT LEAST AND THEN LOOK FOR THE BEST DEAL AS MOST OF THESE LITTLE GUNS WILL BE IN EXCELLENT CONDITION AS SHOOTERS EVEN IF SOMETIMES THE STOCKS ETC MAY BE A LITTLE USED OR HARD FOR WEAR. GOOD LUCK AND CONGRATS ON BEING THERE FOR THE BOY. UF

10-18-2009, 04:56 PM	#12
Bobitis Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 6,612	Re: Having trouble finding a rifle. CAPS LOCK off please. __________________ ^.^ A point in every direction is the same as having no point at all

10-18-2009, 05:06 PM	#13
UncleFudd Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Phoenix, Az Contributor Posts: 549	Re: Having trouble finding a rifle. Sorry BOBITIS; I am a one finger typist and did not realize they were on until most of my reply was on paper. I do not know how to erase or change it once it was done so I continued to the end in caps knowing full well that I would be castigated by someone with hurt feelings. But I assure you and others before anyone else is injured, there was no malice aforethought intended or otherwise and I was not swearing at a single person. I have only the utmost respect for all who post or read or whatever on these forums. My bad and my apology. Nuff said, and oh yes the caps are off!!! UF

10-18-2009, 08:04 PM	#14
isnipe Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 4	Re: Having trouble finding a rifle. get a winchester wildcat its bolt action and comes with a 5 round mag. and 3 10 round mags. SUPER ACCURATE,GREAT STARTER RIFLE THAT WONT BREAK THE BANK!ITZ WORTH EVERY PENNY! AND ITS ONLY 210 TO ABOUT 240 BUCKS!It is a real tack driver! Last edited by isnipe; 10-18-2009 at 08:07 PM..

10-18-2009, 08:53 PM	#15
gazzmann V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: So. Fla. Posts: 146	Re: Having trouble finding a rifle. I will stick to my Remington 510 and Winchester 67 single shots. Tack drivin' son of a guns. (no pun intended) Check out the gun shows and pawn shops, some times there are some pretty good deals on bolt action single shot 22's. Just ran across a Winchester 121 in really nice shape for a $100.00. I'll probably go back and do some horse trading on it. As a kid hunting with a single shot, you learned to make that shot count if you wanted meat on the table.

10-19-2009, 08:52 AM	#16
user Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northern piedmont of Va. and Middle of Nowhere, West Virginia Posts: 1,013	Re: Having trouble finding a rifle. Thanks for the link to the gun from Savage, Joe, and to the CZ, Bobitis (btw, Tractor Supply is having a sale on Kong toys). And to everyone for the comments. I suppose I should have clarified, that the "boy" I want to get the rifle for, although inexperienced, is 23 years old. He wants to learn to kill paper, and has an interest in very accurate shooting. So I'm not really looking for a "youth" model, and as he learns more about it, I expect he'll hang on to whatever I end up getting for a long time. So quality is important. __________________ ===== Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state. Last edited by user; 10-19-2009 at 08:53 AM..

10-20-2009, 03:31 PM	#17
cdf50 Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 9	Re: Having trouble finding a rifle. I would definately take a look at the savage modles,i have several in different calibers and styles and they all are accurate and the price is hard to beat!

10-20-2009, 04:02 PM	#18
amiley1@comcast.net Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Jackson Ms. Posts: 4	Re: Having trouble finding a rifle. Hello, I Bought My Grandson A CZ Bolt Action. It Has 5 Or !0 Rounds Magazines. It Is What A Lot Of European Countries Use To Train Their People For The Olympics. They Are Super Accurate. You Might Ask About Them At Your Local Gun Store. Or They Have A Web Sight.

10-21-2009, 11:27 AM	#19
pawn Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Crossville, TN Posts: 1,469	Re: Having trouble finding a rifle. synthetic stock but the price is nice: http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...s_id/411537380 __________________ Take care when you get information. The truth is generally seen, rarely heard. -Balthasar Gracian

10-21-2009, 11:38 AM	#20
fprefect V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Branson, MO Posts: 63	Re: Having trouble finding a rifle. I like your choice of a bolt action as it will emphasize the importance of accuracy. Be it a single shot or with a clip, Ruger makes some reasonably priced high quality rimfires, as do most of the "well known" rifle manufacturers such as Winchester and Remington all of which should produce very good accuracy with either iron sights or a 4X scope. F. Prefect

10-21-2009, 05:53 PM	#21
user Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northern piedmont of Va. and Middle of Nowhere, West Virginia Posts: 1,013	Re: Having trouble finding a rifle. Thanks, again, y'all. I've pretty much come to the conclusion that the CZ 452 Lux will do what I want, with the exception of its not being available in stainless. Interesting, it's got a 20 or so inch barrel, and they make a couple of other models in different lengths. The 513 (no relationship to the famous Remington of that designation) is a shorter and simpler design, less expensive, and has a sixteen and a half inch barrel (no checkering on the stock, nonadjustable trigger). The 452 "Ultra Lux" is the same thing, but with a twenty-eight inch barrel. Bobitis reminded me, offline, that the average .22LR cartridge's powder is pretty much expended by the time the bullet gets fifteen or sixteen inches down the barrel, so what, I wondered, was the point of a 28" barrel? Further research on CZ's website suggested (and it took a bit of diligence to find it) that the pure and simple, only reason for that extended barrel length is to improve accuracy with the iron sights because of the longer sight radius. I've also read rumors to the effect that the 452 will be discontinued this year; that there'll be a new and improved version out next year with a different model number; and that there will be price increases at the end of this year. __________________ ===== Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

10-21-2009, 06:34 PM	#22
pawn Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Crossville, TN Posts: 1,469	Re: Having trouble finding a rifle. Excellent choice! The hogback stock lends itself well to iron sight shooting and I have also heard from numerous sources that the model 452 will be replaced next year. IMHO, you can't go wrong with a CZ. I own a 452 Varmint and a 511 auto loader. The 511 was discontinued several years back... mine has the lux-type stock which I like very much. Good shooting to you and your son! __________________ Take care when you get information. The truth is generally seen, rarely heard. -Balthasar Gracian

10-21-2009, 09:11 PM	#23
Joe M V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Nebraska Posts: 52	Re: Having trouble finding a rifle. I would agree, the CZ is an excellent choice. Everything I've heard and read about them has all been good. __________________ Joe

10-22-2009, 02:35 PM	#24
GregD V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Chenal, Louisiana Posts: 65	Re: Having trouble finding a rifle. I have the 452-2E ZKM w/sights. A very accurate rifle. I use the single shot magazine for most of my shooting.

10-22-2009, 05:32 PM	#25
fprefect V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Branson, MO Posts: 63	Re: Having trouble finding a rifle. After all the excellent rifles that were suggested as a first gun, I really didn't expect User to drop half a grand on his son's "first" rifle. I'd hate to think what #5 might cost you. Uncle Fudd, you hit the nail squarely on the head. And by the way, the 28 inch tube will not only produce superior accuracy, but an increase in muzzle velocity as well. Why scrimp now? Buy it. F. Prefect