I'm new to all this, have a self-defense ammo question - The Firearms Forum

WildcatFan · 10-26-2009, 07:23 PM

I need to stock some high-end self-defense rounds. I'm on cheaperthandirt.com. What rounds should I be considering?
Thanks.

user · 10-26-2009, 08:18 PM

You can't do wrong with Federal Hydrashock or Hornady XTP. A bit more recoil with the latter. You can buy more expensive stuff, but the increment of value added is minimal.

Lotsdragon · 10-26-2009, 08:40 PM

Yeah love the hydrashock for self defense got a box thats about 10 years old cause I have never felt the need for it. Well except for a couple of evil pumpkins that is.

WildcatFan · 10-26-2009, 08:50 PM

Thanks, guys. What about these Winchester Black Talons - can I get 'em? Are they expensive and, if so, how much?

Lost One · 10-26-2009, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildcatFan

Thanks, guys. What about these Winchester Black Talons - can I get 'em? Are they expensive and, if so, how much?

You can get them but you will pay a premium for it, I dont see why buying the name would help other than to empty the wallet some. When Winchester did away with the black talon the SXT came into play, I have both still and keep them for my carry gun. There is now the Winchester Ranger SXT series that I believe has taken over for the Black Talon/SXT they keep renaming it basically and slightly changing the looks but its still their premium defense ammo.

If you want to get some good defense ammo you may also want to consider Remington Golden saber, it and winchester are about the same when put against each other in tests and the Remington is easy to find. I have it loaded in some of my mags as well.

What ever you get make sure to get enough to test it in the gun, some guns are funny about what they will take and when the SHTF isnt the time to find out your gun doesn't like it.

RJay · 10-26-2009, 09:48 PM

Black Talons are no longer being made under that name. Try Winchester Ranger. You can still find Black Talons but at a high price. They are also over rated.

Lost One · 10-26-2009, 09:57 PM

Also I forgot to mention it, its been a long time since I read the article on it but when put to the test the Federal Hydra shock was doing just as good as the Winchester Black Talon and Remington Golden Sabers. Dont be sucked in by the name of a bullet and pay for something that will not do any better than something else. I have all of them but when I bought them they where all going for the same price and I was out to see which one would digest through my pistols the best, turned out they all went through just fine for my .45's and 9mm's.

johnlives4christ · 10-26-2009, 10:04 PM

speer gold dots is good ammo. you should look other places than cheaper than dirt, they gouge their ammo prices i think. if you're looking for premium ammo you shouldnt have a problem finding it as it's expensive and noone is buy any amounts of it

PharmrJohn · 10-26-2009, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildcatFan

I need to stock some high-end self-defense rounds. I'm on cheaperthandirt.com. What rounds should I be considering?
Thanks.

Is your question brand related or grain related? Or both? You don't want a round that will fly in and out of your target. The idea is for it to stay in, both to protect innocent bystanders and release all the energy within the target. What caliber are we talking here?

....and with that I will let it go....as I am a relative newb as well.

WildcatFan · 10-26-2009, 11:13 PM

PharmrJohn,
First, thanks. I'm talking brand loyalty. .45 ACP

Claude Clay · 10-27-2009, 12:07 AM

you don't mention caliber.
get the brand/model your local police or state police carry.
....good enuf for them= good enuf for you.
useful if you ever actually use it and find a prosecutors face in yours

Lost One · 10-27-2009, 12:45 AM

OK looking at Cabela's they have the Winchester PDX1 heres the link http://tinyurl.com/yzpgepy anyway looking at it it looks just like the Black Talon only not black and they say its what the FBI is using. Winchesters site http://www.winchester.com/marketing/...0Bonded%20PDX1 says the same thing.

user · 10-27-2009, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claude Clay

you don't mention caliber.
get the brand/model your local police or state police carry.
....good enuf for them= good enuf for you.
useful if you ever actually use it and find a prosecutors face in yours

disagree - law enforcement agencies buy under government contracts - low bidder gets the business; Also, your use of better ammo is not going to be the big issue if you're charged with a crime in connection with having shot someone - if it was a good shoot, the ammo's no problem. But the 800 pound gorilla will be the fact that you shot someone. So make sure you don't touch the gun unless you're in a position to tell a jury, "You're dam'right I shot him, it was the right thing to do, and I'd do it again under the same circumstances!"

pinecone70 · 10-27-2009, 07:40 AM

re: Black Talon, I saw a box at the last gun show, I didn't even notice the caliber because the price was $68. Looked like they'd been laying around a while.

carver · 10-27-2009, 08:21 AM

WildcatFan, take a look at Hornady's Critical Defense ammo. Hollow points tend to clog up when passing thru some materials, like heavy clothing. When this happens the round acts as ball ammo, and will not open up. It then acts like ball ammo, and will over penetrate. Hornady's CD ammo is designed to prevent this from happening. They claim that their CD ammo will open up every time, no matter what you shoot through.

oscarmayer · 10-27-2009, 08:32 AM

check this out. a little dated but good useful information http://www.mouseguns.com/ammoart.htm. and the advice on hornady is excellent. after years of looking for the best load i've settled on hornady for my 9mm and 45 acp. for my larger calibers ie 45 colt or 44 spl. it's winchester silver tips

44alltheway · 10-27-2009, 10:53 AM

Try these.
http://www.extremeshockusa.com/cgist...d=7487792.3736

They are really expensive but they work even better than a regular hollowpoint. Plus they break apart so they wont go through the bad guy and hit something else or maybe go through a wall.

Lotsdragon · 10-27-2009, 11:08 AM

Oly Toledo! 44 dont know if those are even legal LOL!

Claude Clay · 10-27-2009, 01:07 PM

Quote:

low bidder gets the business

my not to small city police dept uses Speer Gold Dot.
not what i would consider second rate. and since when does purchasing at the best price affect quality if it is the same product?

Quote:

use of better ammo is not going to be the big issue

again, if it is the same product at a better price, how does that make the product 'better' ?
and cause the 'product' has already been accepted in court for use by your local police, your defense doe not have to argue that point.

10-26-2009, 07:23 PM	#1
WildcatFan V.I.P. Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: St. Louis Posts: 68	I'm new to all this, have a self-defense ammo question I need to stock some high-end self-defense rounds. I'm on cheaperthandirt.com. What rounds should I be considering? Thanks. __________________ These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. -Thomas Payne- -->

10-26-2009, 08:18 PM	#2
user Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northern piedmont of Va. and Middle of Nowhere, West Virginia Posts: 1,013	Re: I'm new to all this, have a self-defense ammo question You can't do wrong with Federal Hydrashock or Hornady XTP. A bit more recoil with the latter. You can buy more expensive stuff, but the increment of value added is minimal. __________________ ===== Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

10-26-2009, 08:40 PM	#3
Lotsdragon Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Potosi, Mo Posts: 813	Re: I'm new to all this, have a self-defense ammo question Yeah love the hydrashock for self defense got a box thats about 10 years old cause I have never felt the need for it. Well except for a couple of evil pumpkins that is. __________________ "First comes smiles,then lies.Last is gunfire" Roland Deschain

10-26-2009, 08:50 PM	#4
WildcatFan V.I.P. Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: St. Louis Posts: 68	Re: I'm new to all this, have a self-defense ammo question Thanks, guys. What about these Winchester Black Talons - can I get 'em? Are they expensive and, if so, how much? __________________ These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. -Thomas Payne-

10-26-2009, 09:48 PM	#6
RJay Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,487	Re: I'm new to all this, have a self-defense ammo question Black Talons are no longer being made under that name. Try Winchester Ranger. You can still find Black Talons but at a high price. They are also over rated. __________________ RonJames

10-26-2009, 09:57 PM	#7
Lost One V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: SLC, Ut. Posts: 64	Re: I'm new to all this, have a self-defense ammo question Also I forgot to mention it, its been a long time since I read the article on it but when put to the test the Federal Hydra shock was doing just as good as the Winchester Black Talon and Remington Golden Sabers. Dont be sucked in by the name of a bullet and pay for something that will not do any better than something else. I have all of them but when I bought them they where all going for the same price and I was out to see which one would digest through my pistols the best, turned out they all went through just fine for my .45's and 9mm's.

10-26-2009, 10:04 PM	#8
johnlives4christ Former Guest Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,828	Re: I'm new to all this, have a self-defense ammo question speer gold dots is good ammo. you should look other places than cheaper than dirt, they gouge their ammo prices i think. if you're looking for premium ammo you shouldnt have a problem finding it as it's expensive and noone is buy any amounts of it

10-26-2009, 11:13 PM	#10
WildcatFan V.I.P. Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: St. Louis Posts: 68	Re: I'm new to all this, have a self-defense ammo question PharmrJohn, First, thanks. I'm talking brand loyalty. .45 ACP __________________ These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. -Thomas Payne-

10-27-2009, 12:07 AM	#11
Claude Clay V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central CT Posts: 451	Re: I'm new to all this, have a self-defense ammo question you don't mention caliber. get the brand/model your local police or state police carry. ....good enuf for them= good enuf for you. useful if you ever actually use it and find a prosecutors face in yours __________________ teachers may learn you the rules; experience will teach you the exceptions. NRA Instructor

10-27-2009, 12:45 AM	#12
Lost One V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: SLC, Ut. Posts: 64	Re: I'm new to all this, have a self-defense ammo question OK looking at Cabela's they have the Winchester PDX1 heres the link http://tinyurl.com/yzpgepy anyway looking at it it looks just like the Black Talon only not black and they say its what the FBI is using. Winchesters site http://www.winchester.com/marketing/...0Bonded%20PDX1 says the same thing. Last edited by Lost One; 10-27-2009 at 12:47 AM..

10-27-2009, 07:40 AM	#14
pinecone70 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Minnesota Gal! Posts: 4,730	Re: I'm new to all this, have a self-defense ammo question re: Black Talon, I saw a box at the last gun show, I didn't even notice the caliber because the price was $68. Looked like they'd been laying around a while. __________________ _____________________________________________ "Miss Scarlet, in the library...with a revolver...."

10-27-2009, 08:21 AM	#15
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,295	Re: I'm new to all this, have a self-defense ammo question WildcatFan, take a look at Hornady's Critical Defense ammo. Hollow points tend to clog up when passing thru some materials, like heavy clothing. When this happens the round acts as ball ammo, and will not open up. It then acts like ball ammo, and will over penetrate. Hornady's CD ammo is designed to prevent this from happening. They claim that their CD ammo will open up every time, no matter what you shoot through. __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

10-27-2009, 08:32 AM	#16
oscarmayer Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Contributor Posts: 2,387	Re: I'm new to all this, have a self-defense ammo question check this out. a little dated but good useful information http://www.mouseguns.com/ammoart.htm. and the advice on hornady is excellent. after years of looking for the best load i've settled on hornady for my 9mm and 45 acp. for my larger calibers ie 45 colt or 44 spl. it's winchester silver tips

10-27-2009, 10:53 AM	#17
44alltheway Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11	Re: I'm new to all this, have a self-defense ammo question Try these. http://www.extremeshockusa.com/cgist...d=7487792.3736 They are really expensive but they work even better than a regular hollowpoint. Plus they break apart so they wont go through the bad guy and hit something else or maybe go through a wall. __________________ Cover, not concealment.

10-27-2009, 11:08 AM	#18
Lotsdragon Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Potosi, Mo Posts: 813	Re: I'm new to all this, have a self-defense ammo question Oly Toledo! 44 dont know if those are even legal LOL! __________________ "First comes smiles,then lies.Last is gunfire" Roland Deschain