New and Confused - The Firearms Forum

quadcrazy · 11-17-2009, 09:11 PM

I am new to reloading and would like some guidance. I just purchased a new Lyman turret press and other needed reloading equipment including reloading supplies for reloading 38 special with assistance from Cabela's employee. After reading the Lyman reloading manual, it seems that the 38 special brass, primers, bullets and powder don't match any recipes in the book. How should I go about this?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Alpo · 11-17-2009, 09:30 PM

If you've got 38 special brass, it doesn't matter if yours is Federal and the book lists a load with Remington. It will work.

If you've got lead bullets, you need to use data for lead bullets (not jacketed data), but if you have 158 RN and the book has data for 158 SWC, it will work. If you have 122 grain bullets, and the book has data for 125 grain, it will work.

If you've got Small Pistol primers (not Small Pistol Magnum), and they are Winchester, while the book used CCI, it will work.

Powder - you've got to use what it says in the book. If you've got 4895, and the book doesn't have any 4895 loads, don't try to make your own. Bad, Bad idea. BOOM very likely.

But if you've got a powder that is listed in the book's data, and SP primers, no matter who made 'em, and bullets that are within 5 grains of the listed bullet weight (either up or down), it'll work. Just start with the lowest listed load, and work up.

I was loading 38 special, using CCI primers. Switched to Winchester. Nothing else changed. Shooting a cylinderful of mixed loads, I could feel the difference. The ones with the Winchester primers were hotter. But my loads were nowhere near max, and even being hotter, they were still safe. My loads are loaded in mixed brass - WW, CCI, Fed, RP, SB, SupVel, you name it. Never any problems. I've loaded 9mm 122 grain TC bullets in 38s, using 125 grain bullet data. I've not had any problems.

You can swap anything else, but not the powder.

What components do you have?

Suicide*Ride · 11-17-2009, 09:36 PM

Welcome to TFF Quadcrazy!

No sure if I understand your question but are you loading for 38spl & there's not 1 recipe in your reloading manual?

38spl is like the most common rd out there..... what are you using for a reloading manual? Make sure you're in the pistol section of the book & not the shotshell or rifle section.

SR

Suicide*Ride · 11-17-2009, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpo

If you've got 38 special brass, it doesn't matter if yours is Federal and the book lists a load with Remington. It will work.

If you've got lead bullets, you need to use data for lead bullets (not jacketed data), but if you have 158 RN and the book has data for 158 SWC, it will work. If you have 122 grain bullets, and the book has data for 125 grain, it will work.

If you've got Small Pistol primers (not Small Pistol Magnum), and they are Winchester, while the book used CCI, it will work.

Powder - you've got to use what it says in the book. If you've got 4895, and the book doesn't have any 4895 loads, don't try to make your own. Bad, Bad idea. BOOM very likely.

But if you've got a powder that is listed in the book's data, and SP primers, no matter who made 'em, and bullets that are within 5 grains of the listed bullet weight (either up or down), it'll work. Just start with the lowest listed load, and work up.

I was loading 38 special, using CCI primers. Switched to Winchester. Nothing else changed. Shooting a cylinderful of mixed loads, I could feel the difference. The ones with the Winchester primers were hotter. But my loads were nowhere near max, and even being hotter, they were still safe. My loads are loaded in mixed brass - WW, CCI, Fed, RP, SB, SupVel, you name it. Never any problems. I've loaded 9mm 122 grain TC bullets in 38s, using 125 grain bullet data. I've not had any problems.

You can swap anything else, but not the powder.

What components do you have?

Thanks Alpo! You beat me to it.

I was headed in the direction that you went, next, & now I won't have to do all that typing! (Wiping my forehead - whew!)

SR

woolleyworm · 11-17-2009, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quadcrazy

I am new to reloading and would like some guidance. I just purchased a new Lyman turret press and other needed reloading equipment including reloading supplies for reloading 38 special with assistance from Cabela's employee. After reading the Lyman reloading manual, it seems that the 38 special brass, primers, bullets and powder don't match any recipes in the book. How should I go about this?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Welcome to TFF ! Could you list exactly what you have available to you? This will help us out alot. +1 for Alpo's advice also, but being a new reloader, I want to make darn sure you understand what you're looking at in the manual. We're here to help and glad to do it. So give us a little more info and we'll get you headed down a safe and enjoyable path.

Alpo · 11-17-2009, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suicide*Ride

Welcome to TFF Quadcrazy!

No sure if I understand your question but are you loading for 38spl & there's not 1 recipe in your reloading manual?

38spl is like the most common rd out there..... what are you using for a reloading manual? Make sure you're in the pistol section of the book & not the shotshell or rifle section.

SR

I read it as - he has (example) WW brass and 150 grain bullets and Wolf primers, and the Lyman book loads their 38s in (I just checked in mine) Federal cases, using CCI primers, and while they have 155 and 158 grain loads, they don't have 150. So he couldn't find a recipe to match the stuff he bought.

JLA · 11-17-2009, 11:20 PM

This guys a first... A newby that is sticking to the data

Alpo offers sound advice, as long as you stay away from max charges you can substitute everything but the powder. BTW, welcome to the madness

jacksonco · 11-17-2009, 11:34 PM

A good source of information for reloading is "Lee's Modern Reloading". It has all kinds of really good information and a lot of different loads for different calibers. Pick up as many manuals for reloading as you can as they all are good sources for loading info. Good Luck.

armedandsafe · 11-18-2009, 01:06 AM

The Lyman reloading manual is the one I usually recommend to beginners. However, it is a bit of a toss up between them and the one from Lee. Both are very good.

The important thing is to match your powder to your bullet shape, material and weight. Five or even ten grains plus or minus on the bullet weight is not big deal, so long as you are not loading to the MAX. Look up by cartridge, bullet and then powder. Cases and primers will not make a large difference until you get into the very fine details of the hobby. Just make sure you don't use magnum primers when the recipe calls for regular primers. If loading pistol ammo, small rifle and large rifle primers in place of small pistol and large pistol primers is not advised.

Keep the questions coming.

Pops

quadcrazy · 11-18-2009, 08:27 PM

I really appreciate all your help. Everyone is giving great feedback. At this point I will be more clear about what I have. I'm loading 38 special.

Lyman 49th edition reloading handbook
Remington brass
Hodgdon HP-38 (which I understand was designed for loading 38 caliber
Winchester 38/357 - 125 gr. JHP notched
CCI small pistol primers

The Lyman manual doesn't have a recipe with these components so what guidelines do I follow?

I also checked the Hodgdon Website and they do not have a recipe listing these components either.

Thanks again for everyone's help.

quadcrazy · 11-18-2009, 08:30 PM

Exactly!!

woolleyworm · 11-18-2009, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quadcrazy

I really appreciate all your help. Everyone is giving great feedback. At this point I will be more clear about what I have. I'm loading 38 special.

Lyman 49th edition reloading handbook
Remington brass
Hodgdon HP-38 (which I understand was designed for loading 38 caliber
Winchester 38/357 - 125 gr. JHP notched
CCI small pistol primers.

I know now exactly what you are having a problem with. If you have the hard cover copy of the Lyman 49th, you are looking at pg 353. There is no data for HP-38. HP38 and Win231 are identical powders, if you call Hogdons, they will verify this. All load data that I have seen in the last couple years shows identical charges between the two. This has also been discussed on the forum here as well.
http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/show...ight=hp-38+231
http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/show...ight=hp-38+231
So, while I would normally advise not to substituting any powder data whatsoever; this is one case where you can safely use the data for W231. start at the min loads and work your load up from there.

quadcrazy · 11-18-2009, 08:48 PM

Excellent!! What about bullet? They list a Hornady 125 gr. JHP. Can I substitute any 125 gr. JHP?

The Lyman book on page 353 doesn't list the Win231, I'm assuming the 231 that's listed in the Win231 your referring to.

As you can tell, when it comes to loading potentially deadly bullets, I'm being very cautious.

woolleyworm · 11-18-2009, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quadcrazy

Excellent!! What about bullet? They list a Hornady 125 gr. JHP. Can I substitute any 125 gr. JHP?

The Lyman book on page 353 doesn't list the W231, I'm assuming the 231 that's listed in the W231 your referring to.

As you can tell, when it comes to loading potentially deadly bullets, I'm being very cautious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by armedandsafe

The Lyman reloading manual is the one I usually recommend to beginners.
The important thing is to match your powder to your bullet shape, material and weight. Five or even ten grains plus or minus on the BULLET WEIGHT is not big deal, so long as you are not loading to the MAX. Look up by cartridge, bullet and then powder. Cases and primers will not make a large difference until you get into the very fine details of the hobby. Just make sure you don't use magnum primers when the recipe calls for regular primers. If loading pistol ammo, small rifle and large rifle primers in place of small pistol and large pistol primers is not advised.

Keep the questions coming.

Pops

Not a problem, they're both JHP's and very similar design. As you work up your load from min - your sweet spot you may find differences in results if you were to compare the two.

Yes, 231, W231, Win231 are all Winchester 231 powder. Never hurts to be cautious and always pays to ask and double check.

RustyFN · 11-18-2009, 09:48 PM

You can also check the powder manufactures web site for powder charge data.

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

Welcome

medalguy · 11-18-2009, 11:00 PM

Another small piece of advice, don't start with the listed loads. That's what everyone means by start low and work up. A good rule of thumb is to take the lowest load for a given powder and bullet, load about ten cases at 10% below that load, and see how they shoot. If you have a chronograph, so much the better. That way you can see what kind of velocity you are getting. Then you can start working your load up slightly, ten rounds at a time. I try to get velocity close to factory for plinking loads.

I start low, and load a series of several charges of ten rounds each and shoot them one load group at a time, checking my chronograph to see the velocity I'm getting and the accuracy. Keep in mind that often (usually) your best and most accurate load will NOT be the highest load. A lower load is easier on your gun, too. Makes the screws stay tight much longer.

JUNKKING · 11-18-2009, 11:44 PM

You guys are the greatest. There was an awful lot of typing to this thread that was abnormal including dashes dots and numbers.

I think you guys did a hell of a job straightening this guy out.

I have never reloaded because of time and not truly understanding those reloading guides. You all make it seem simple.

I have been reading these threads trying to get the concept as best I could, This thread is very well worded and like I said makes it seem simple.

People I have asked questions to look at me like an alien because they know how many guns I have and automatically think I should have this knowledge.

My hat is off to you guys. I may even start loading myself knowing I can get help here.

Thanks guys. JUNK

Alpo · 11-19-2009, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by medalguy

Another small piece of advice, don't start with the listed loads. That's what everyone means by start low and work up. A good rule of thumb is to take the lowest load for a given powder and bullet, load about ten cases at 10% below that load, and see how they shoot.

Bad advice. Do not go lower than the book recommends. Do not go higher than the book recommends. Hell, if you are not going to pay attention to the loads listed in the book, why buy it in the first place?

"Start low" means never start with the max load. Lots of new reloaders want to start with the max load, so they can get the most they can out of their loads. If you don't want to start with the minimum listed loads, reduce the maximum loads by 10%, as a starting load, and then work up from there.

Going below the minimums listed is asking for a fubar.

woolleyworm · 11-19-2009, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpo

Bad advice. Do not go lower than the book recommends. Do not go higher than the book recommends. Hell, if you are not going to pay attention to the loads listed in the book, why buy it in the first place?

"Start low" means never start with the max load. Lots of new reloaders want to start with the max load, so they can get the most they can out of their loads. If you don't want to start with the minimum listed loads, reduce the maximum loads by 10%, as a starting load, and then work up from there.

Going below the minimums listed is asking for a fubar.

+1 Min is Min is Min; though that varies sometimes between manuals, I've never shot a Min load that resulted in overpressures, regardless of which manual I've used.
Also never shot a min load that resulted in a squib either, all bullets have exited the muzzle end! Going below that is pushing that probability an unknown amount that I don't care to discover.

RustyFN · 11-19-2009, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpo

Bad advice. Do not go lower than the book recommends. Do not go higher than the book recommends. Hell, if you are not going to pay attention to the loads listed in the book, why buy it in the first place?

"Start low" means never start with the max load. Lots of new reloaders want to start with the max load, so they can get the most they can out of their loads. If you don't want to start with the minimum listed loads, reduce the maximum loads by 10%, as a starting load, and then work up from there.

Going below the minimums listed is asking for a fubar.

Agree 100%

bizy · 11-28-2009, 12:49 PM

I've been reloading many years. My opinion is:
The head stamp doesn't make that much difference.
Mind your manners when loading ammo. DO NOT try to load a hot load. There isn't but 1/10 grain between an average load and a ruined gun or missing fingers. Here is a site that has alot of good info about loads.

http://www.accuratereloading.com/reload.html

Try this site...

11-17-2009, 09:11 PM	#1
quadcrazy Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Bonney Lake, WA Posts: 21	New and Confused I am new to reloading and would like some guidance. I just purchased a new Lyman turret press and other needed reloading equipment including reloading supplies for reloading 38 special with assistance from Cabela's employee. After reading the Lyman reloading manual, it seems that the 38 special brass, primers, bullets and powder don't match any recipes in the book. How should I go about this? Any help would be greatly appreciated. -->

11-17-2009, 09:30 PM	#2
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,662	Re: New and Confused If you've got 38 special brass, it doesn't matter if yours is Federal and the book lists a load with Remington. It will work. If you've got lead bullets, you need to use data for lead bullets (not jacketed data), but if you have 158 RN and the book has data for 158 SWC, it will work. If you have 122 grain bullets, and the book has data for 125 grain, it will work. If you've got Small Pistol primers (not Small Pistol Magnum), and they are Winchester, while the book used CCI, it will work. Powder - you've got to use what it says in the book. If you've got 4895, and the book doesn't have any 4895 loads, don't try to make your own. Bad, Bad idea. BOOM very likely. But if you've got a powder that is listed in the book's data, and SP primers, no matter who made 'em, and bullets that are within 5 grains of the listed bullet weight (either up or down), it'll work. Just start with the lowest listed load, and work up. I was loading 38 special, using CCI primers. Switched to Winchester. Nothing else changed. Shooting a cylinderful of mixed loads, I could feel the difference. The ones with the Winchester primers were hotter. But my loads were nowhere near max, and even being hotter, they were still safe. My loads are loaded in mixed brass - WW, CCI, Fed, RP, SB, SupVel, you name it. Never any problems. I've loaded 9mm 122 grain TC bullets in 38s, using 125 grain bullet data. I've not had any problems. You can swap anything else, but not the powder. What components do you have? __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

11-17-2009, 09:36 PM	#3
Suicide*Ride Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Golden, Colorado Posts: 1,340	Re: New and Confused Welcome to TFF Quadcrazy! No sure if I understand your question but are you loading for 38spl & *there's not 1 recipe in your reloading manual? 38spl is like the most common rd out there..... what are you using for a reloading manual? Make sure you're in the pistol section of the book & not the shotshell or rifle section. SR __________________ "The price of FREEDOM can be seen here"* ******(the sign outside every VA hospital)****** In an emergency, people don't rise to the occasion, but are reduced to their level of training. When something is trying to eat you, it is hard to get off a good shot! "If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Twain

11-17-2009, 11:20 PM	#7
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,319	Re: New and Confused This guys a first... A newby that is sticking to the data Alpo offers sound advice, as long as you stay away from max charges you can substitute everything but the powder. BTW, welcome to the madness __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

11-17-2009, 11:34 PM	#8
jacksonco Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Jackson County West Virginia Posts: 2,237	Re: New and Confused A good source of information for reloading is "Lee's Modern Reloading". It has all kinds of really good information and a lot of different loads for different calibers. Pick up as many manuals for reloading as you can as they all are good sources for loading info. Good Luck.

11-18-2009, 01:06 AM	#9
armedandsafe Former Guest Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Moses Lake, WA Posts: 10,344	Re: New and Confused The Lyman reloading manual is the one I usually recommend to beginners. However, it is a bit of a toss up between them and the one from Lee. Both are very good. The important thing is to match your powder to your bullet shape, material and weight. Five or even ten grains plus or minus on the bullet weight is not big deal, so long as you are not loading to the MAX. Look up by cartridge, bullet and then powder. Cases and primers will not make a large difference until you get into the very fine details of the hobby. Just make sure you don't use magnum primers when the recipe calls for regular primers. If loading pistol ammo, small rifle and large rifle primers in place of small pistol and large pistol primers is not advised. Keep the questions coming. Pops

11-18-2009, 08:27 PM	#10
quadcrazy Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Bonney Lake, WA Posts: 21	Re: New and Confused I really appreciate all your help. Everyone is giving great feedback. At this point I will be more clear about what I have. I'm loading 38 special. Lyman 49th edition reloading handbook Remington brass Hodgdon HP-38 (which I understand was designed for loading 38 caliber Winchester 38/357 - 125 gr. JHP notched CCI small pistol primers The Lyman manual doesn't have a recipe with these components so what guidelines do I follow? I also checked the Hodgdon Website and they do not have a recipe listing these components either. Thanks again for everyone's help. Last edited by quadcrazy; 11-18-2009 at 08:29 PM..

11-18-2009, 08:30 PM	#11
quadcrazy Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Bonney Lake, WA Posts: 21	Re: New and Confused Exactly!!

11-18-2009, 08:48 PM	#13
quadcrazy Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Bonney Lake, WA Posts: 21	Re: New and Confused Excellent!! What about bullet? They list a Hornady 125 gr. JHP. Can I substitute any 125 gr. JHP? The Lyman book on page 353 doesn't list the Win231, I'm assuming the 231 that's listed in the Win231 your referring to. As you can tell, when it comes to loading potentially deadly bullets, I'm being very cautious. Last edited by quadcrazy; 11-18-2009 at 08:56 PM..

11-18-2009, 09:48 PM	#15
RustyFN Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: West Virginia Posts: 592	Re: New and Confused You can also check the powder manufactures web site for powder charge data. http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp Welcome

11-18-2009, 11:00 PM	#16
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 585	Re: New and Confused Another small piece of advice, don't start with the listed loads. That's what everyone means by start low and work up. A good rule of thumb is to take the lowest load for a given powder and bullet, load about ten cases at 10% below that load, and see how they shoot. If you have a chronograph, so much the better. That way you can see what kind of velocity you are getting. Then you can start working your load up slightly, ten rounds at a time. I try to get velocity close to factory for plinking loads. I start low, and load a series of several charges of ten rounds each and shoot them one load group at a time, checking my chronograph to see the velocity I'm getting and the accuracy. Keep in mind that often (usually) your best and most accurate load will NOT be the highest load. A lower load is easier on your gun, too. Makes the screws stay tight much longer.

11-18-2009, 11:44 PM	#17
JUNKKING Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Just East of Pittsburgh PA Contributor Posts: 1,783	Re: New and Confused You guys are the greatest. There was an awful lot of typing to this thread that was abnormal including dashes dots and numbers. I think you guys did a hell of a job straightening this guy out. I have never reloaded because of time and not truly understanding those reloading guides. You all make it seem simple. I have been reading these threads trying to get the concept as best I could, This thread is very well worded and like I said makes it seem simple. People I have asked questions to look at me like an alien because they know how many guns I have and automatically think I should have this knowledge. My hat is off to you guys. I may even start loading myself knowing I can get help here. Thanks guys. JUNK __________________ Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and again!

11-28-2009, 12:49 PM	#21
bizy V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Marlow, Ok Posts: 344	Re: New and Confused I've been reloading many years. My opinion is: The head stamp doesn't make that much difference. Mind your manners when loading ammo. DO NOT try to load a hot load. There isn't but 1/10 grain between an average load and a ruined gun or missing fingers. Here is a site that has alot of good info about loads. http://www.accuratereloading.com/reload.html Try this site...