Terrorism

[Regular Joe]

Well... I didn't respond yesterday on purpose. I had to think about it. Now I see that this board doesn't really get a lot of traffic, and maybe the wandering thread syndrome is part of the reason.
I am a webmaster, and I've run my own message boards. To me, the OP establishes what this thread is about, and we discuss what he wanted to know. Allowing things to get this far off topic is like trying to fit the wrong ammo in a gun. The trajectory has nothing to do with the point of aim.
Terrorism is an extremely important and poignant topic. Right now, American travelers are being warned to be very careful in European destinations, because Osama has recently released 2 audio tapes that could well contain the triggers for terror operations. An attempt to carry out an assault along the lines of the Mumbai massacre was recently foiled in Europe, and the Eiffel tower has recently been evacuated twice, due to bomb threats.
RIGHT NOW, Ahmenijihad has his blood boiling over the Stuxnet worm invasion of his military/industrial complex, and he has sworn to attack in retaliation in early Oct. This thing has all the looks of an American/Israeli collaboration, and we know that Iran, Syria and Lebanon are funding Hizballah and Hamas. It behooves every American Citizen to get back on topic here, and back into serious discussion. GET A BRAIN.

[pinecone70]

Originally Posted by Regular Joe

GET A BRAIN.

I take offense at this post, especially the quote above. I have known the members of this forum for a long time, they were responding to some young guy that butted into this thread to make trouble. I hardly think that is brainless.

We all come here to discuss things, it is a forum after all. Things occasionally go off-track, and this thread went dangerously close to being closed. Everyone has a right to write here, I don't know what sort of board you're operating, but I am fairly certain you know that it is not easy dealing with people. Oh, and if you have not read the rules of this forum, there is no name-calling allowed. Surely you know you broke that rule by your statement above, as it does fit into that category.

[CampingJosh]

Originally Posted by Regular Joe

I am a webmaster, and I've run my own message boards. To me, the OP establishes what this thread is about, and we discuss what he wanted to know.

GET A BRAIN.

It is wonderful that on your own message boards you allow no thread drift. It's well within your rights to do that, and it may be an excellent place to discuss topics.
It is also wholly irrelevant. This is not your message board, and we are not confined to your rules. We have discussions, and sometimes that means the topic occasionally changes. (We were not particularly far off topic this time, despite your bunched panties. The OP was about recognizing terrorism around us, and the discussion had turned to defining terrorism. Those go pretty much hand in hand.)

It's very unbecoming to join a new group and begin insulting the members. We're not mean spirited people here, and the moderators tend not to take kindly to people who act as such. I have no more authority here than you, and you are by all means welcome to express your thoughts and opinions on a topic, but I would, in a friendly manner, encourage you to cool down and speak peaceably to the rest of us.

Terrorism is a serious topic, and I'm glad you are interested in it. But please don't get mad and start insulting people because the conversation isn't headed the direction you want.

[Regular Joe]

I talk to a lot of active duty military people. When we first started this current round in Afghanistan, and for the first 2 or 3 years, it was common to hear a uniformed serviceman say: "America is at war, but Americans are at the mall".
This is exactly what I see in the way this thread has progressed. It started out as a serious discussion about terrorism. We and every single American need to engage in exactly that kind of discussion. Today, Japan issued a travelers warning to their citizens, regarding the new threats in Europe. Today, Russia withdrew their scientists from Iran, because of implications regarding the Stuxnet worm. I could go on.
This thread went to the mall. We ALL know exactly the definition of terrorism. There is a real and present danger of terrorism in every major city in this country, which increases every single day. I have seen no mention here of the Palestinian walk-out from the current round of peace talks, because Israel insisted on resuming building of settlements. Surely, we must acknowledge that the US is implicated in every strike against Israel, because we are their whole trump card, and Islam knows that. We must acknowledge that the presence and influence of Islam has grown exponentially in the US over the last decade. I could go on and on and on and on. Right now, we are in the last days of a grace period that we have come to believe is our birthright. The time will come when Mumbai style attacks are happening here, in sports stadiums, concert venues and in crowded commuter traffic. The time to discuss this is RIGHT NOW.

[The_Rifleman]

I''ve never seen such childish drivel from a grown man. That you aren't embarrassed is telling.

[oscarmayer]

you're doing a wonderful job promoting the muslim mindset. i'm glad you brought your silly ass to a public forum , the more exposure to creeps like you the more we'll get to know the mindset of the " American muslim"

[oscarmayer]

mods ..... AS REPUGNANT AND REPLUSIVE AS THIS THREAD HAS BECOME IT SHOULD NOT BE DELETED IN MY OPINION . IT GIVES US A LOOK INSIDE THE MIND OF AN AMERICAN muslim AND COULD SERVE AS A REMINDER OF WHAT WE'RE REALLY FACING.....

[pinecone70]

I reported the post from thedoctor, I believe it's time for him to go now. Clearly he can't play nice.

[oscarmayer]

awww shucks i was going to locate him by his ip addy and sent him a pound of bacon ..... oscarmayer brand of course

[ampaterry]

Originally Posted by Regular Joe

I talk to a lot of active duty military people. When we first started this current round in Afghanistan, and for the first 2 or 3 years, it was common to hear a uniformed serviceman say: "America is at war, but Americans are at the mall".
This is exactly what I see in the way this thread has progressed. It started out as a serious discussion about terrorism. We and every single American need to engage in exactly that kind of discussion. Today, Japan issued a travelers warning to their citizens, regarding the new threats in Europe. Today, Russia withdrew their scientists from Iran, because of implications regarding the Stuxnet worm. I could go on.
This thread went to the mall. We ALL know exactly the definition of terrorism. There is a real and present danger of terrorism in every major city in this country, which increases every single day. I have seen no mention here of the Palestinian walk-out from the current round of peace talks, because Israel insisted on resuming building of settlements. Surely, we must acknowledge that the US is implicated in every strike against Israel, because we are their whole trump card, and Islam knows that. We must acknowledge that the presence and influence of Islam has grown exponentially in the US over the last decade. I could go on and on and on and on. Right now, we are in the last days of a grace period that we have come to believe is our birthright. The time will come when Mumbai style attacks are happening here, in sports stadiums, concert venues and in crowded commuter traffic. The time to discuss this is RIGHT NOW.

OK, Joe -
I am a moderator here, and I am asking what you, as a web-master, suggest be done when someone like The Doctor comes into a thread like this and proceeds to give a new definition of 'terrorism' by mis-quoting dictionary sources.
Delete his posts?
Throw him off the forum?
Ignore him?
Or do we try to educate him?

In any of the message boards you run, what would you do?

For my part, I also have several message boards, some of which I admin, and this one which I am a mod. of. My tendency is to allow SOME thread drift, particularly when it is as slight as this one has been. Another tendency of mine is to ABSOLUTELY allow a divergence into definitions of terms involved. NOTHING can be discussed effectively until the people discussing it agree on the definitions of the terminology used. One of my boards, for instance, involves Origins issues. In that area, "Evolution" can mean anything from minor adaptation at one end of the scale, all the way to complete acceptance of Common Descent from goo to google.

[ampaterry]

Now, I do believe the discussion of definitions is over at this point, as everyone has had a shot at looking in the dictionary and cementing our ideas of what terrorism is. I believe that most members here are ready to resume a discussion of terrorism.

I am not convinced that overt terrorist attacks against our nation are effective. The American people, when kicked in the groin, do not fall to the ground and roll around in pain for some extended period of time. They have more of a tendency to get mad and kill the one that hurt them. My fear is not for what any terrorist might directly do to us, but it is more of what we might do on an individual and personal basis as a result of such attacks. I fear a race war in our country more than I fear suicide bombers. The terrorists, on average, have not possessed the intellect to be very successful in their damage to us. The American people, when aroused by continued attempts, will be far more effective in their retaliation.

[RunningOnMT]

Geeez guys...chill. As you all know I'm not really very fond of Islam. However in just briefly skimming through the posts on this thread I don't see anything that offensive in the Doctors comments. He was making a valid point about what actions truly qualify as terrorism versus what actions we choose to call terrorism. Are we so narrow minded that we have to banish those with whom we disagree? By traditional definitions the Doctor is right; fear and intimidation are often used as a means of motivating change in the actions of others. The degree to which violence offends our sensibilities seems to be the determining factor on whether we choose to call it terrorism.

The word terror is thrown around so much these days that the meaning is mutating and evolving. Maybe it's time for a new definition. Perhaps we could say that terrorism is any act of violence displaying a wanton disregard for the safety of innocent persons, designed to effect change through fear and intimidation.

I would argue that what we choose to call terrorism depends largely on what side we are on. The then new guerilla tactics displayed by American revolutionaries was considered terrorism by the brits. Sniping at someone from behind a tree then running was downright unsportsmanlike. To many, zionist groups struggling to form the new state of Israel, commited terrorist acts (see King David hotel).

So let's be a little more tolerant. After all, dialogue is how we begin to understand others. That doesn't mean we have to accept their point of view, just understand it.

[pinecone70]

Originally Posted by RunningOnMT

Geeez guys...chill. As you all know I'm not really very fond of Islam. However in just briefly skimming through the posts on this thread I don't see anything that offensive in the Doctors comments.

The post was removed, it was filled with profanity directed at everyone that interacted with him. Inappropriate and juvenile.

[RunningOnMT]

Originally Posted by pinecone70

The post was removed, it was filled with profanity directed at everyone that interacted with him. Inappropriate and juvenile.

Oh, I didn't see that. Sorry. There I go jumping to contusions again.

[pinecone70]

Originally Posted by RunningOnMT

Oh, I didn't see that. Sorry. There I go jumping to contusions again.

There are quoted remnants of the tirade in post #55. I'm always shocked when someone breaks that name-calling rule with profanity. Eventually, they all snap and start flinging the bad words around, since everyone here is talented at getting them going.

[RunningOnMT]

Geez... if I'd have seen that I'd have never defended him. Nope, we don't need that.

[ampaterry]

Originally Posted by RunningOnMT

Oh, I didn't see that. Sorry. There I go jumping to contusions again.

LOL!!!

I read your first post, and thought "Good GRIEF! ROMT must have been in Basic Training a LOT more recently than I have, if that doesn't look offensive to him!!

Wheew!
Glad THAT is straightened out!

[wyoredot]

you are so right PC, once you call em out they generally degrade into yelling, cussing, insolent persons. Seen it lots.

[Regular Joe]

Shucks Terry, your post that named me seems to have been addressed in the course of the thread. Terrorism is a highly charged subject. I get the impulse that says we should be getting some things worked out here, but that doesn't help much. You can dream up any number of scenarios, and that's all it amounts to, is dreaming.
What I haven't seen is any discussion about the frequency of stuff that amounts to terrorism in our existing world. Specifically, crime in places where OC is allowed, vs. places where guns are strictly controlled. Things like that. I think that's the biggest deterrent to Mumbai style attacks here. An armed society is a polite society...

[Oldeyes]

From yet another frame of reference and getting back to OP's original question, I was always told that attempting to deal rationally with an irrational situation is the stuff that crazy is made of. Terrorism is from our viewpoint inherently an irrational act focused upon randomly achieving some type of maximized and hopefully widespread damage, collateral damage and then of course, recognition for same. Therefore, the only real way to battle it is that you have to get totally in tune with it. That means that today the multitude of really warm and fuzzy things that we felt really secure about in our lives as we grew up in the 50's through the 90's need to be closely re-examined in light of our changing environment. Suffice it to say that the old comfy infrastructure in our country was not designed to repel or inhibit even low level acts of terrorism. Our entire view of the world was different way back then. If you wish get a good dose of the fear of God, talk to anyone in the know of our public utility arena for an eye opening view of our country wide infrastructure vulnerabilities. We as a country are just hyper vulnerable at any number of levels and we need to harden as much of our infrastructure as we can as quickly as we can, as well as seriously ramp up our widespread potential threat awareness. Thus, your re-examination of the tactical lay of the land in light of all of the recent terrorism activities and the numerous threats of future activities is not paranoid, but only prudent. And unfortunately, what we might do at this point is almost way too little and way, way to late. So, being hyper aware of your physical surroundings, the constituency of the crowds and then avoiding situations where your personal risk factor is higher only makes sense. When it comes terrorism today, you are pretty much on your own and it is totally up to you to do those things to save yourself and your family.

[UncleFudd]

Thanks to all who have stopped by and left their thoughts, ideas and comments. We do not all have to agree and as we are human, we will digress and unfortunately it does result on occasion to name calling and back-biting. One thing making it a successful post to begin with is for it to cause each of us to think which can't be all bad. And to think this is nearly a year old and still quite active is a true complement.

Sorry I did not get back sooner or interject more of my original thoughts. But serious health matters have kept me occupied for the lack of a better term.

It is true that we are threatened (under constant threat) by the radical Muslim factions. Are we to disregard or forget the thousands who died on 9-11? Or should we ignore the death threats against the producers of the comedy show where they are always killing Kenny who used Allah in jest during a show. Or perhaps pass on the woman cartoonist from the Seattle paper who had to be placed into the witness protection program because she made a cartoon using Allah. Are there not terrorist training camps inside our borders in several states? Are not Osama and hundreds of other radical clerics calling for the extermination of ALL INFIDELS? Are their Imams not demanding we allow them to practice Sharia law here in this country that has ON LAW, THE CONSTITUTION?

But my original post was not about Muslims in particular nor about the mexican drug runners now occupying thousands of acres of Southern Az. It is about terrorism period and in any and every fashion and name. Put any name or face or religion or race on it you wish, there may be bad guys who will attempt to cause you and your loved ones serious harm.

The question was and remains, are you preparing and doing everything in your power to avoid danger and dangerous situations, be aware of your surroundings, hardening your perimeters and training along with or including practicing with the tools you have chosen to use for your personal protection?

We are a land of law abiding, God fearing, friendly, courteous, and giving citizens. IN spite of the threats, we obey our laws (as law abiding gun owners probably more so than any other faction in this land). I/we will not go out and look for the very animals who threaten us and our families and friends. We will use our elected officials and the courts and the laws of this land to stop them if and when possible. But make no mistake, many are we who will do whatever it takes to remain safe and sound in our homes and any place we may find ourselves at any given time.

Therefore my primary challenge is to make my home as safe and to make it appear to be too difficult to even attempt to cause me problems. My neighbor looks easier and I also placed a sign in my yard with a large hand pointing to his house saying, "He has gold coins and is an unarmed, anti-gun, liberal". LOL
I also try to stay away from large gatherings and when or if I do attend I try to be even more vigillent and aware in and of my surroundings.

As for thedoctor, my first thought is that he is a troll. If not an he is truly, Muslim he has actually proven my point yet I would ask one question, (probably rhetoric). Sir, if or when the shtf, how will you avoid using your catapult, blades etc against the infidels? For unless you read and follow something other than the Koran/quran, you will have no choice unless you plan to forfeit your own life for one or all of us.

Stay safe and thanks for all the thoughts and great comments.

UF

[UncleFudd]

One more item to bolster my concerns. Take a few minutes to watch and listen. The threat is here and growing primarily because of our laws and our gutless leaders. We just keep capitulating and it will only be a matter of a very short time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEmzvAVacLU

UF

[Regular Joe]

Aha!!! Speaking of a shortening time frame... Check in on the front page of this website each day:
http://www.debka.com/
-and I PROMISE that you will see how quickly things are progressing. Iran, and the alliance that they continue to build is bound and determined to destroy Israel. We know that the US will not stand by and watch. It's a matter of ever-shortening time before we are directly involved with Iran. Consider now how completely the US and Britain have been infiltrated by Muslims. There will be terrorism on American soil like you daren't dream of right now. In your face, and in your streets.

[Jeff Midguard]

If the original question is how "can we be prepared to resist terrorism"? The answer would be something like this...
We would need lots of well armed, well qualified,well trained and very alert people availabe at every possible venue. (Continue in the small arms training, add some hand to hand. Krav Maga would be a good choice. Keep some bomb disposal experts nearby.)They would need an effective communication system
to quickly call for reinforcement and pursuit. And an effective nationwide program to detect threats and process the information would be a plus.
Probably the best model in the modern world is Israel.

If the question is how prepared are we, the answer is not very.

If the question is can we trust the govt. to protect us? I would recommend having a back-up plan in place.

One more thing that would be necessary for the preservation of our country and our way of life is a healthy dose of loyalty/patriotism. That will help to hold things together if we aren't all specially trained anti-terror warriors.
One of the things we're up against with Mexico is a number of special forces soldiers specially trained by the U.S who defected to the drug cartels choosing money over national well-being.

[dualsportrider]

Well in response to the doctor, the teacher was telling the student the truth. The police officer was telling the drunk the truth. And the father was telling his sons the truth. Some warnings have a value of growth to them if they fall on prudent ears.
No where in this scenario was anyone blowing up planes, buildings or people. Now if Osama Bin Laden is telling his followers that they will go to heaven and have so many virgins at their feet for going out and blowing people up. That would be a lie.

Refer to page one.