Women's Health Care Recommendation Changes in Expectation of National Health Care... - The Firearms Forum

ponycar17 · 11-20-2009, 06:42 PM

It seems that over the past 2 weeks the feds have changed recommendations for several women's yearly procedures to ensure a cancer-free lifestyle. Last week a Federal health advisory board reversed a long-held recommendation that women 40 and over have yearly mammography exams to catch the early stages of breast cancer. Instead, they suggested that 50 was the more appropriate age for yearly mammography procedures. Well, that didn't go over very well with folks and later in the week the suggestion was effectively disowned by whom other than Kathleen Sebelius, Obama's abortion-loving Health and Human Services Secretary.

See http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/11/18...nes/index.html

I said at the time to my wife that I believed this to be a back door reduction in costs if and when a Public Option Health Care plan is passed. After all, many have said and rightfully so, that Nationalized Health Care will result in reduced availability of procedures, contrary to the urgings of Democrats of the liberal persuasion who insist otherwise, and contrary to economic common sense. Care availability will be reduced for most... There's no doubt. This was a test to see how people received this recommendation.

Well, also this week another group recommended that yearly pap smear procedures for early detection of cancer be halted in lieu of a two-year rule instead for women in a younger age group.

See here...

Really folks, this stuff is soooooo obvious. The feds (aka: damn socialists) are pushing for reduced care recommendations as an outlet for cost reduction if and when a Public Option Health Care bill is passed. Don't expect the reduced care recommendations to end here either. The bill hasn't even passed yet, and here are two prime examples of a reduction in care.

The next time you have a conversation with a Pro-Obama ignoramous, ask that person if they're willing to offer up their mother or wife's life in the name of socialism?

Has anyone else formulated this opinion yet?

bcj1755 · 11-20-2009, 07:12 PM

I've already come to the same conclusions you have. Also, the advisory board that made the mamogram recomendation will be the ONLY advisory board allowed to set policy under AdolfCare. Convienent, huh? Nah, it must be a coincidence. Oh wait, I don't believe in coincidence.

My mom, who is basically non-political, hit the roof when they announced this. Of course, my mom has figured out that she'd get the needle under AdolfCare anyhow because she has health problems that include diabetes.

but now I'm a potential right-wing extremist terrorist because I oppose this AdolfCare monstrosity that will euthanize my mother and would have euthanized my grandparents even though my grandfather was a disabled WW2 vet?!

ponycar17 · 11-20-2009, 07:15 PM

bcj, this doesn't sit well with my wife either. She has two coworkers who are currently battling breast cancer. She's pissed, as she should be!

topper · 11-21-2009, 04:29 AM

I think that the longer a person waits to get tested for potential cancer and other problems is the more chance that they will develop thoses problems. The key to cure is EARLY detection.

ponycar17 · 11-21-2009, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topper

I think that the longer a person waits to get tested for potential cancer and other problems is the more chance that they will develop thoses problems. The key to cure is EARLY detection.

While I agree, I don't believe that 'the cure' is the issue at hand here. Clearly, the end goal is cost control of a government program that has virtually guaranteed rationing of care. The program will be nothing more than a vote-buying scheme to the many Americans who are too ignorant to understand why this program is so bad for their personal liberties. Treatment is the last goal of this potential program.

topper · 11-21-2009, 06:33 AM

Then perhaps after waiting until too late the Obamacare will refuse treatment for 'older' persons on the basis that they are not as productive as younger ones. Another way of eliminating the population.

ckill1 · 11-21-2009, 08:13 AM

I have worked in healthcare now for 17 years in direct patient care, all in an adult ICU. As an RN in a teaching hospital I keep up with current research & findings, of course. I am fully in support of yearly health screenings as the son of a cancer survivor, BUT, as a member of the healthcare profession the SCIENCE doesn't support most preventative care. It will take several posts to explain fully, but take mamograms, for instance...there are MANY false positives, costing pain, money, time, and side effects in wasted treatment. And the incidence of discovery is outweighed by all those effects, EXCEPT to the people in whom a cancer is discovered. In the research literature only 4 types of preventative healthcare are effective. Smoking cessation, excercise/weightloss, childhood vaccinations, and well-pregnancy/baby screening. Thats it. Prostate exams are fine, because it doesnt cost anything to have a finger inserted in, well, im sure you guys have been tested! Now, I DO feel we need these exams, mainly because I think healthcare is an INDIVIDUAL responsibility, & I want everything available to me to ensure me & mine are healthy, but I also have to say as a member of a profession, many of these tests arent warrented as they are currently administered. Conflicted? You bet I am...

Chris

mvaldes · 11-21-2009, 01:18 PM

Sorry Chris, but after 34 years as a practicing physician, I disagree. Statistics are great until you try to apply them to an individual. Let's say there's a 98% chance of not getting a particular disease. But, if you happen to be one of the 2% who do get it, it's 100% for you, not to mention that it may kill you. It's true that false positives cause anxiety and "unnecessary" (at least in retrospect) procedures. However, I can't even count the number of people I've seen and treated who are still alive because of diseases detected with these screening protocols. I believe the new recommendations are cost control related and do not plan to follow them with my family or with my patients.

Bobitis · 11-21-2009, 01:53 PM

My 1st girlfried has had both breasts removed due to cancer in her milk ducts. She'll be 50 next year.

If you want a battle, bring this topic up with her.

ckill1 · 11-22-2009, 08:42 PM

Again, guys, my post stated I do believe in health screening, regardless of what the statistics say. Just playing devils advocate, here! I even said, Dr., that I belive healthcare should be an individuals responsibility, so I agree with your statement that, as it applies to an individual, statistics of occurence are meaningless, but the fact remains that these statistics are the reasons for the changes. The Dems are wanting to push healthcare reform as a SOCIETAL issue, & it shouldn't be. We are all on the same side here. Please reread my post if misunderstood.

Chris

11-20-2009, 06:42 PM	#1
ponycar17 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: South Carolina Contributor Posts: 4,884	Women's Health Care Recommendation Changes in Expectation of National Health Care... It seems that over the past 2 weeks the feds have changed recommendations for several women's yearly procedures to ensure a cancer-free lifestyle. Last week a Federal health advisory board reversed a long-held recommendation that women 40 and over have yearly mammography exams to catch the early stages of breast cancer. Instead, they suggested that 50 was the more appropriate age for yearly mammography procedures. Well, that didn't go over very well with folks and later in the week the suggestion was effectively disowned by whom other than Kathleen Sebelius, Obama's abortion-loving Health and Human Services Secretary. See http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/11/18...nes/index.html I said at the time to my wife that I believed this to be a back door reduction in costs if and when a Public Option Health Care plan is passed. After all, many have said and rightfully so, that Nationalized Health Care will result in reduced availability of procedures, contrary to the urgings of Democrats of the liberal persuasion who insist otherwise, and contrary to economic common sense. Care availability will be reduced for most... There's no doubt. This was a test to see how people received this recommendation. Well, also this week another group recommended that yearly pap smear procedures for early detection of cancer be halted in lieu of a two-year rule instead for women in a younger age group. See here... Really folks, this stuff is soooooo obvious. The feds (aka: damn socialists) are pushing for reduced care recommendations as an outlet for cost reduction if and when a Public Option Health Care bill is passed. Don't expect the reduced care recommendations to end here either. The bill hasn't even passed yet, and here are two prime examples of a reduction in care. The next time you have a conversation with a Pro-Obama *ignoramous*, ask that person if they're willing to offer up their mother or wife's life in the name of socialism? Has anyone else formulated this opinion yet? __________________ Arm yourself with intellectual Ammunition! Gunfacts 5.1 Myth-Busting Facts JustFacts.com on Gun Control Stopping Power, the Downloadable Book -->

11-20-2009, 07:12 PM	#2
bcj1755 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: A wretched hive of scum and villiany Posts: 4,357	Re: Women's Health Care Recommendation Changes in Expectation of National Health Care I've already come to the same conclusions you have. Also, the advisory board that made the mamogram recomendation will be the ONLY advisory board allowed to set policy under AdolfCare. Convienent, huh? Nah, it must be a coincidence. Oh wait, I don't believe in coincidence. My mom, who is basically non-political, hit the roof when they announced this. Of course, my mom has figured out that she'd get the needle under AdolfCare anyhow because she has health problems that include diabetes. but now I'm a potential right-wing extremist terrorist because I oppose this AdolfCare monstrosity that will euthanize my mother and would have euthanized my grandparents even though my grandfather was a disabled WW2 vet?! __________________ History is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace, and revolution continue on forever. Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges - Cicero If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. - Samuel Adams

11-20-2009, 07:15 PM	#3
ponycar17 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: South Carolina Contributor Posts: 4,884	Re: Women's Health Care Recommendation Changes in Expectation of National Health Care bcj, this doesn't sit well with my wife either. She has two coworkers who are currently battling breast cancer. She's pissed, as she should be! __________________ Arm yourself with intellectual Ammunition! Gunfacts 5.1 Myth-Busting Facts JustFacts.com on Gun Control Stopping Power, the Downloadable Book

11-21-2009, 04:29 AM	#4
topper Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: deep in the woods Posts: 748	Re: Women's Health Care Recommendation Changes in Expectation of National Health Care I think that the longer a person waits to get tested for potential cancer and other problems is the more chance that they will develop thoses problems. The key to cure is EARLY detection.

11-21-2009, 06:33 AM	#6
topper Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: deep in the woods Posts: 748	Re: Women's Health Care Recommendation Changes in Expectation of National Health Care Then perhaps after waiting until too late the Obamacare will refuse treatment for 'older' persons on the basis that they are not as productive as younger ones. Another way of eliminating the population.

11-21-2009, 08:13 AM	#7
ckill1 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: SW Iowa Posts: 299	Re: Women's Health Care Recommendation Changes in Expectation of National Health Care I have worked in healthcare now for 17 years in direct patient care, all in an adult ICU. As an RN in a teaching hospital I keep up with current research & findings, of course. I am fully in support of yearly health screenings as the son of a cancer survivor, BUT, as a member of the healthcare profession the SCIENCE doesn't support most preventative care. It will take several posts to explain fully, but take mamograms, for instance...there are MANY false positives, costing pain, money, time, and side effects in wasted treatment. And the incidence of discovery is outweighed by all those effects, EXCEPT to the people in whom a cancer is discovered. In the research literature only 4 types of preventative healthcare are effective. Smoking cessation, excercise/weightloss, childhood vaccinations, and well-pregnancy/baby screening. Thats it. Prostate exams are fine, because it doesnt cost anything to have a finger inserted in, well, im sure you guys have been tested! Now, I DO feel we need these exams, mainly because I think healthcare is an INDIVIDUAL responsibility, & I want everything available to me to ensure me & mine are healthy, but I also have to say as a member of a profession, many of these tests arent warrented as they are currently administered. Conflicted? You bet I am... Chris __________________ People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

11-21-2009, 01:18 PM	#8
mvaldes Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 6	Re: Women's Health Care Recommendation Changes in Expectation of National Health Care Sorry Chris, but after 34 years as a practicing physician, I disagree. Statistics are great until you try to apply them to an individual. Let's say there's a 98% chance of not getting a particular disease. But, if you happen to be one of the 2% who do get it, it's 100% for you, not to mention that it may kill you. It's true that false positives cause anxiety and "unnecessary" (at least in retrospect) procedures. However, I can't even count the number of people I've seen and treated who are still alive because of diseases detected with these screening protocols. I believe the new recommendations are cost control related and do not plan to follow them with my family or with my patients.

11-21-2009, 01:53 PM	#9
Bobitis Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 6,612	Re: Women's Health Care Recommendation Changes in Expectation of National Health Care My 1st girlfried has had both breasts removed due to cancer in her milk ducts. She'll be 50 next year. If you want a battle, bring this topic up with her. __________________ ^.^ A point in every direction is the same as having no point at all

11-22-2009, 08:42 PM	#10
ckill1 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: SW Iowa Posts: 299	Re: Women's Health Care Recommendation Changes in Expectation of National Health Care Again, guys, my post stated I do believe in health screening, regardless of what the statistics say. Just playing devils advocate, here! I even said, Dr., that I belive healthcare should be an individuals responsibility, so I agree with your statement that, as it applies to an individual, statistics of occurence are meaningless, but the fact remains that these statistics are the reasons for the changes. The Dems are wanting to push healthcare reform as a SOCIETAL issue, & it shouldn't be. We are all on the same side here. Please reread my post if misunderstood. Chris __________________ People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.