Crying shame? - The Firearms Forum

Crpdeth · 11-23-2009, 12:13 AM

I was going through some of my knives earlier and started wondering if I am just anal or if most collectors feel as I do...

I received the knife pictured below as a gift from a man who will not be with us much longer, he is a Veteran and a man who I admire, so I cherish the knife... It was given to him by his father so it meant a great deal to me that he thought enough of me to put it in my hand, so I'm not trashing the original owners of the blade.

But I wonder... Do you feel that a knife is worth a little less or even ruined because the blades are scratched?

Another friend of mine and I were chatting here a while back while I was sharpening one of my pocket knives and he mentioned that I may need to lower the angle of the blade on the stone in order to get it as sharp as possible... My response was that I didn't want to scratch the blade on an expensive knife, he replied that "You're going to have a few scratched here and there... No biggie", but I disagreed, stating that "Razor sharp or not, you wont see scratches on a blade that I sharpened".

So, two different views, one sees all knives, regardless of their cost, as a tool and another individual sees it as a useful thing of beauty...

Crpdeth

red14 · 11-23-2009, 12:24 AM

I see both views.

To me scratches are like wrinkles on someone's face. Shows life and time, and character. Your friend earned his wrinkles. I can't think of a better keepsake.

Bill DeShivs · 11-23-2009, 12:44 AM

Scratches seem to be on most knives. I have been around knives all my life, so sharpening them without scratching is very easy for me- but I can't figure out why the average person can't learn how to sharpen properly. I see people scratch blades on jig-type sharpeners!
As far as that particular knife goes, the scratches are part of your friend. Leave them, and cherish the knife for what it is.

Insulation Tim · 11-23-2009, 05:52 AM

I guess the answer would concern whether you view a knife as a working tool, or as a "Safe Queen".

I was a Knife Knut for several years, and to some extent still am. But I really view knives as tools and hence they get sharpened, scratched and occasional chips on the edge. OTOH, if I just spent $ 1500 on a William Henry, I probably would think differently.

pickenup · 11-23-2009, 04:53 PM

I go both ways. I have some that have been sharpened until the blade is half it's original size. Others have never seen any kind of sharpening device, and everything in between. Scratches on a used knife give it it's own character.

308 at my gate · 11-23-2009, 05:25 PM

I have some knives that I use for hunting that get sharpened and some that I use as a tool for general use that get sharpened. I try not to scratch them but if it happens I do not loose sleep over it. But there are some knives that I have that I bought for the beauty and craftsmanship of the knife and I leave them just as they are.

oldogy · 11-23-2009, 05:37 PM

Tools develop character with use and show it.
oldogy

Bill DeShivs · 11-23-2009, 06:34 PM

Improper sharpening is just that-it is not "character." People should learn to take care of their knives, even if they are used as tools.

SARG · 11-23-2009, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red14

I see both views.

To me scratches are like wrinkles on someone's face. Shows life and time, and character. Your friend earned his wrinkles. I can't think of a better keepsake.

*That is a splendid observation*

pickenup · 11-23-2009, 09:59 PM

"character" Is in the eye of the beholder.

DARIN · 03-16-2010, 01:50 PM

In my experience over the past 12 years in dealing in knives I have never seen a lightly scratched blade deter a buy. To me to even suggest that light scratches on a knife blade depriciates the value of a knife is completely ridiculous. The only time that I would consider this type comment to be valid is if the knife/sword/etc.etc. is a knife that was presented as a show item that also inferred this type of respect which, I might add, would place it in the most rare of categories and I would also presume the knife to be within the 4 to 5 digit margins regarding price.

45nut · 03-17-2010, 07:27 AM

Most of my knives are very sharp and some don't have any scratches. The ones I use do. I only have one or two show knives that are new in the box with nary a touch of a stone.

While I am a borderline knife nut, knives are some of the most useful tools I own and I keep them in door pockets, glove compartments, pockets, survival kits, SHTF kits, drawers, tool boxes, so yeah, they do get some scratches that occur with normal wear....................so what's yer point??

If you collect high dollar knives or have a complete CASE XX collection new in the box, then I would expect them to be in mint condition. The collection I prefer, is a bunch of well used and well taken care of pocket knives now sitting in a case retired from active duty to let a new generation do their job.

So yeah, you're anal about knives Donny, but then you knew that before you posed the question.

red14 · 03-17-2010, 09:21 AM

My Dad had knives. If I feel sad, I can pick up one of his knives and still feel a bond. Makes me feel better that he and sharpened it, cared for it. I have the case knife he carried every day, and I can't put a price on it. My son feels the same way, he knows when I die, he gets Dad's knives. He asked me when he was 10 or so, about the time I asked my Dad.

So yes, I am anal about my (his) knives. And I would fight anyone who tried to take one!

carver · 03-17-2010, 09:48 AM

I gave my dad a Case one year for Christmass, he did not know that it was hollow ground, so when he sharpened it, he sharpened it as a flat ground blade. Scratches all over the blade. Depends on how the blade is made. A flat ground blade will lay flat on a stone, and will always have scratches on it from sharping. Hollow ground, and chisel blades need only the edge of the blade to come in contact with the stone.

Bill DeShivs · 03-17-2010, 02:12 PM

Flat ground blades should never be sharpened flat to the stone. The only knives that (arguably) should be sharpened this way are Scandi-ground knives.

deadin · 03-17-2010, 08:55 PM

You want to see a Crying Shame???
Picked this up at a garage sale last year.

DARIN · 03-19-2010, 07:51 AM

Quote:

You want to see a Crying Shame???

That`s not too bad really. I`ve repaired much worse. In fact, if you`d like, I can straighten it out a bit for ya. I do repairs on knives as well as guns. I don`t know if it will ever be ,"good as new" but I can possibly make it much easier on the eyes.

Big ugly · 03-20-2010, 02:12 AM

To me I love these older knives that show a little bit of wear. If I am out at a flea market or something and I see a kniife that even though it shows sighns of use and the blades aint used up, bent, or chipped and broken I will usually by it if it is old enough and the price aint too hight. I love my older knives. I think the scratches or blade wear adds a certain charm to them.

Bill DeShivs · 03-20-2010, 04:51 PM

I wonder how bench grinders became such a popular household tool? They really don't do anything well, and they have screwed up a lot of nice knives.

Old Grump · 03-20-2010, 08:04 PM

I have the slow speed stones for slow grinders but still prefer a little oil and a stone and a seat on a bench outside my shop. I have few knives with out scratches, one is a Hen & Rooster Bowie Knife that I only take out of the box to look at. Every other knife from cheap to expensive is a working knife and I might cringe but I don[t get all broke up when they get a ding or a scratch. I just fix what I can and keep on trucking, er cutting.

Bill DeShivs · 03-21-2010, 03:08 AM

The point is, you don't have to scratch the blade to properly sharpen a knife.

308 at my gate · 03-21-2010, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill DeShivs

The point is, you don't have to scratch the blade to properly sharpen a knife.

That is very true and whole heartedly agree with.

Little Rooster · 03-22-2010, 07:59 AM

deadin that knife isn't bad. So even in the pictured condition, you bought it. Showing it had some value to someone.

wpage · 04-09-2010, 05:50 AM

Shame is most folks have no clue on how to put a decent edge on a blade...
Guess no one showed them.

runswithscissors · 04-12-2010, 01:48 AM

I have the same knife as posted as op has shown.... I got mine in 1977 new for my 11th birthday, and about 5 years later one of my friends and I were hunting the Missouri breaks near Fort Benton , Mt and he nailed a muley deep in a gully, and he asks me for my knife as I was going over the hill after some of the deer from the same cell..... I lent him my treasured Uncle Henry and to my dismay when I received it back both blades were chipped from stearn to bow... I was perplexed to say the least. He said he had tried to chop through the brisket, and I said I guess so. Anyway, I salvaged it with a stone, and it will remain as my main big game hunting knife until I go to the ages... scratches are but scratches and histoy, keep walking the field and enjoy the excellent Uncle H.

11-23-2009, 12:13 AM	#1
Crpdeth Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Location: Location Contributor Posts: 8,247	Crying shame? I was going through some of my knives earlier and started wondering if I am just anal or if most collectors feel as I do... I received the knife pictured below as a gift from a man who will not be with us much longer, he is a Veteran and a man who I admire, so I cherish the knife... It was given to him by his father so it meant a great deal to me that he thought enough of me to put it in my hand, so I'm not trashing the original owners of the blade. But I wonder... Do you feel that a knife is worth a little less or even ruined because the blades are scratched? Another friend of mine and I were chatting here a while back while I was sharpening one of my pocket knives and he mentioned that I may need to lower the angle of the blade on the stone in order to get it as sharp as possible... My response was that I didn't want to scratch the blade on an expensive knife, he replied that "You're going to have a few scratched here and there... No biggie", but I disagreed, stating that "Razor sharp or not, you wont see scratches on a blade that I sharpened". So, two different views, one sees all knives, regardless of their cost, as a tool and another individual sees it as a useful thing of beauty... Crpdeth Attached Images __________________ Our greatest pretenses are built up not to hide the evil and the ugly in us, but our emptiness. The hardest thing to hide is something that is not there. ~Eric Hoffer -->

11-23-2009, 12:24 AM	#2
red14 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: N FLA Posts: 3,913	Re: Crying shame? I see both views. To me scratches are like wrinkles on someone's face. Shows life and time, and character. Your friend earned his wrinkles. I can't think of a better keepsake. __________________ I never argue, I state my opinion, and support my position.

11-23-2009, 12:44 AM	#3
Bill DeShivs Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Contributor Posts: 1,469	Re: Crying shame? Scratches seem to be on most knives. I have been around knives all my life, so sharpening them without scratching is very easy for me- but I can't figure out why the average person can't learn how to sharpen properly. I see people scratch blades on jig-type sharpeners! As far as that particular knife goes, the scratches are part of your friend. Leave them, and cherish the knife for what it is. __________________ Bill DeShivs www.billdeshivs.com

11-23-2009, 05:52 AM	#4
Insulation Tim Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Ohio Contributor Posts: 2,295	Re: Crying shame? I guess the answer would concern whether you view a knife as a working tool, or as a "Safe Queen". I was a Knife Knut for several years, and to some extent still am. But I really view knives as tools and hence they get sharpened, scratched and occasional chips on the edge. OTOH, if I just spent $ 1500 on a William Henry, I probably would think differently. __________________ Tim *"Remember the Ark was built by amateurs....Professionals built the Titanic"*

11-23-2009, 04:53 PM	#5
pickenup Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains Posts: 6,837	Re: Crying shame? I go both ways. I have some that have been sharpened until the blade is half it's original size. Others have never seen any kind of sharpening device, and everything in between. Scratches on a used knife give it it's own character. __________________ The gene pool needs chlorine

11-23-2009, 05:25 PM	#6
308 at my gate Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Lost in SW USA. Posts: 847	Re: Crying shame? I have some knives that I use for hunting that get sharpened and some that I use as a tool for general use that get sharpened. I try not to scratch them but if it happens I do not loose sleep over it. But there are some knives that I have that I bought for the beauty and craftsmanship of the knife and I leave them just as they are. __________________ You got to love it.

11-23-2009, 05:37 PM	#7
oldogy V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: East TN Posts: 309	Re: Crying shame? Tools develop character with use and show it. oldogy __________________ ue"]If gun laws in fact worked, the sponsors of this type of legislation should have no difficulty drawing upon long lists of examples of crime rates reduced by such legislation. That they cannot do so after a century and a half of trying -- " Senator Orrin G. Hatch (R-Utah)[/COLOR]

11-23-2009, 06:34 PM	#8
Bill DeShivs Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Contributor Posts: 1,469	Re: Crying shame? Improper sharpening is just that-it is not "character." People should learn to take care of their knives, even if they are used as tools. __________________ Bill DeShivs www.billdeshivs.com

11-23-2009, 09:59 PM	#10
pickenup Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains Posts: 6,837	Re: Crying shame? "character" Is in the eye of the beholder. __________________ The gene pool needs chlorine Last edited by pickenup; 11-23-2009 at 10:04 PM..

03-16-2010, 01:50 PM	#11
DARIN V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 54	Re: Crying shame? In my experience over the past 12 years in dealing in knives I have never seen a lightly scratched blade deter a buy. To me to even suggest that light scratches on a knife blade depriciates the value of a knife is completely ridiculous. The only time that I would consider this type comment to be valid is if the knife/sword/etc.etc. is a knife that was presented as a show item that also inferred this type of respect which, I might add, would place it in the most rare of categories and I would also presume the knife to be within the 4 to 5 digit margins regarding price.

03-17-2010, 07:27 AM	#12
45nut Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,428	Re: Crying shame? Most of my knives are very sharp and some don't have any scratches. The ones I use do. I only have one or two show knives that are new in the box with nary a touch of a stone. While I am a borderline knife nut, knives are some of the most useful tools I own and I keep them in door pockets, glove compartments, pockets, survival kits, SHTF kits, drawers, tool boxes, so yeah, they do get some scratches that occur with normal wear....................so what's yer point?? If you collect high dollar knives or have a complete CASE XX collection new in the box, then I would expect them to be in mint condition. The collection I prefer, is a bunch of well used and well taken care of pocket knives now sitting in a case retired from active duty to let a new generation do their job. So yeah, you're anal about knives Donny, but then you knew that before you posed the question. __________________ A gun is a tool, Marian; no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that. Shane Nemo me impune lacesset We recall the case of the Shoshone war band which showed up complete with one 30-30 rifle per man the week after Pearl Harbor, and simply wanted to have the enemy pointed out to them. "We hear there's a war going on and we want to go fight it." Jeff Cooper *KCCO*

03-17-2010, 09:21 AM	#13
red14 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: N FLA Posts: 3,913	Re: Crying shame? My Dad had knives. If I feel sad, I can pick up one of his knives and still feel a bond. Makes me feel better that he and sharpened it, cared for it. I have the case knife he carried every day, and I can't put a price on it. My son feels the same way, he knows when I die, he gets Dad's knives. He asked me when he was 10 or so, about the time I asked my Dad. So yes, I am anal about my (his) knives. And I would fight anyone who tried to take one! __________________ I never argue, I state my opinion, and support my position.

03-17-2010, 09:48 AM	#14
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,251	Re: Crying shame? I gave my dad a Case one year for Christmass, he did not know that it was hollow ground, so when he sharpened it, he sharpened it as a flat ground blade. Scratches all over the blade. Depends on how the blade is made. A flat ground blade will lay flat on a stone, and will always have scratches on it from sharping. Hollow ground, and chisel blades need only the edge of the blade to come in contact with the stone. __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

03-17-2010, 02:12 PM	#15
Bill DeShivs Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Contributor Posts: 1,469	Re: Crying shame? Flat ground blades should never be sharpened flat to the stone. The only knives that (arguably) should be sharpened this way are Scandi-ground knives. __________________ Bill DeShivs www.billdeshivs.com

03-17-2010, 08:55 PM	#16
deadin Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 858	Re: Crying shame? You want to see a Crying Shame??? Picked this up at a garage sale last year. Attached Images

03-20-2010, 02:12 AM	#18
Big ugly Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Knoxville Tennessee Contributor Posts: 2,603	Re: Crying shame? To me I love these older knives that show a little bit of wear. If I am out at a flea market or something and I see a kniife that even though it shows sighns of use and the blades aint used up, bent, or chipped and broken I will usually by it if it is old enough and the price aint too hight. I love my older knives. I think the scratches or blade wear adds a certain charm to them. __________________ "You say the Devil made do it with a smile. Raisin' hell and howlin at the moon. Well I'm gonna put your @$$ back in line. I'm gonna scare the Devil out of you." BlackBerry Smoke Song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R513dA4peMg Nothing is "proof" against a truly talented fool. Swanshot

03-20-2010, 04:51 PM	#19
Bill DeShivs Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Contributor Posts: 1,469	Re: Crying shame? I wonder how bench grinders became such a popular household tool? They really don't do anything well, and they have screwed up a lot of nice knives. __________________ Bill DeShivs www.billdeshivs.com

03-20-2010, 08:04 PM	#20
Old Grump Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Little hut in the woods near Blue River Wisconsin Posts: 2,286	Re: Crying shame? I have the slow speed stones for slow grinders but still prefer a little oil and a stone and a seat on a bench outside my shop. I have few knives with out scratches, one is a Hen & Rooster Bowie Knife that I only take out of the box to look at. Every other knife from cheap to expensive is a working knife and I might cringe but I don[t get all broke up when they get a ding or a scratch. I just fix what I can and keep on trucking, er cutting. __________________ "When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil."~~- Thomas Jefferson Roman Catholic, Life Member of American Legion, VFW, Wisconsin Libertarian party, Wi-FORCE, WGO, NRA, JPFO, GOA, SAFand CCRKBA

03-21-2010, 03:08 AM	#21
Bill DeShivs Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Contributor Posts: 1,469	Re: Crying shame? The point is, you don't have to scratch the blade to properly sharpen a knife. __________________ Bill DeShivs www.billdeshivs.com

03-22-2010, 07:59 AM	#23
Little Rooster Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Old Dominion Posts: 564	Re: Crying shame? deadin that knife isn't bad. So even in the pictured condition, you bought it. Showing it had some value to someone. __________________ "Far better it is to dare mighty things, than to take rank with those poor, timid spirits who know Victory Nor Defeat" Teddy Roosevelt

04-09-2010, 05:50 AM	#24
wpage Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1,471	Re: Crying shame? Shame is most folks have no clue on how to put a decent edge on a blade... Guess no one showed them. __________________ "You shall recieve power" Acts 1:8 W

04-12-2010, 01:48 AM	#25
runswithscissors V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: CEDAR CREEK, TEXAS Posts: 59	Re: Crying shame? I have the same knife as posted as op has shown.... I got mine in 1977 new for my 11th birthday, and about 5 years later one of my friends and I were hunting the Missouri breaks near Fort Benton , Mt and he nailed a muley deep in a gully, and he asks me for my knife as I was going over the hill after some of the deer from the same cell..... I lent him my treasured Uncle Henry and to my dismay when I received it back both blades were chipped from stearn to bow... I was perplexed to say the least. He said he had tried to chop through the brisket, and I said I guess so. Anyway, I salvaged it with a stone, and it will remain as my main big game hunting knife until I go to the ages... scratches are but scratches and histoy, keep walking the field and enjoy the excellent Uncle H.