If the stuff really hits the fan.

[delta13soultaker]

Originally Posted by piglatinhater

Aks all the way. Theres a reason you see the rest of the world using them.

Because they cannot afford to fit all their men with M4, R4, FAL, G3, or an SA80.

[ski9393]

Wow. Looks like I opened a can of worms. A crappy plan is better than trying to play it by ear. You can never have too much ammo, and you will never have enough ammo (for the shtf situation), food, MRE's are great, stock up on them. When you run out, I hope you can hunt or fish. Water, maybe more important than food, hope that you have a semi clean creek near you and some way to purify the water you take outta the creek. In the case of nukes, I don't know what to tell you about the water, but you probably won't last long anyway, so drink up and hope for the best. I'm sure there will be alot you will have not thought of anyway, and have to improvise on the fly. I'm no dummy, but I can't think of everything.

Alot of countries use AK's, because they are durable, cheap, and easy to use. Also, sometime ago, a small developing nation says "yeah sure we'll be Communists", and the former U.S.S.R. would send those rifles to them by the thousands.

As far as home grown henchmen go, have a contingency plan. Cosmo up a rifle or two, can some ammo, case the cosmolined rifle and bury it or hide it or something would be my idea. Then when they show up to take your guns, you smile, say oh well I got rid of most of them, hard times you know, hand them a cheap pistol or something and insist that you don't have anything else. Then a few days later, go dig up your stuff and laugh at those a-holes.

Currently I live in a small city. Any excuse to blow this popsicle stand is a good one. In the case of the pooh hitting the fan, I'm outta here. Like I said earlier in this forum, I'm going to the farm as quick as I can. I'll dig in there with my family, and hope for the best.

I think I covered most of the points that had been brought up thus far. Merry Christmas, and ba hum bug to all!!

[Cautious Bob]

I have to agree with SKI and Cycloneman: 1. Military surplus weapons are by definition going to be tougher, and function better in adverse conditions (like a mosin in 30 below zero weather, or an ak or sks in the mud). 2. "A gun without ammo is a paperweight". One needs a plentiful and continuous supply of ammo. Mil surp ammo for Mosin Nagant and AK/SKS is, at the moment, plentiful and cheap. The mil surp stuff is corrosive; so clean your weapon after shooting. 3. Mosin M91/30 s are available now for $89 from several dealers; Tokarev TT33 pistols (7.62x25) are selling for $199 +. Both are powerful, tough, reliable, relatively inexpensive to purchase, and, at the moment, have ammo supplies both plentiful and cheap. (Also, I.O., Inc. is making AK s in the U.S. now, so maybe American ammo mfgrs will have more incentive to make more 7.62x39).
My humble opinion is that anyone concerned about the shtf is should buy a Mosin (long rifle or M44 carbine), and several spam cans of 7.62x54R for backup.
Especially for the prices this stuff is selling for now, there's no reason not to.

[killbuck]

My M1 Garand might be a little heavier than the new rifles but I'll take it any day for something like that if it ever happens. She's sighted in for 200 to 500 yards and I've got lots of rounds and clips for it not to mention the cleaning kit it needs. She's proven herself and I'll put my life in her hands any day.

killbuck
.........
America is a land of taxation that was founded to avoid taxation. Milton Friedman

[Cautious Bob]

To killbuck: I love my Garand too; (really my favorite gun), and I have sufficient ammo, and supplies for it, and would trust it in combat.
I'm just saying to get the (really cheap) tough Mosin and surplus ammo as backup in case the really unthinkable happens after the shtf...
I doubt prices and availability will ever be any better than now.

[Laufer]

On hindsight, for portability in a car, the Mini 30.
On foot or bicycle (but no where to go...), the Lee-Enfield "JC".

Not worried about ammo. For now, 6,500 rds. for the Mini/SKS and 3,000 for the Jungle Carbines will do.

[gandog56]

Say hello to my little friend.............

[mncarpenter]

A rifle you can take ammo from your enemy for, same with a handgun. 223/308-9mm/45acp/40s&w. Thats where your ammo comes from.
If the SHTF, you better find like-minded individuals to join. Because they aint gonna come at you 1:1. And a Remington 700 will hold up fine.
I'd rather be in the Plains country than heavy woods. Shoot and scoot, they can't burn the woods down around you.

[RickN]

The most likely SHTF situation at this time is a collapse of the economy and then the most important things will be long term foods and the fewest expenses you can possibly have. In other words pay off everything you can, stock up on all the food you can, then worry about which gun to take.

While all of the firearms mentioned will do, you better plan on having at least one good 22 and plenty of ammo for it too.

As for surplus rifles and ammo, there have been some Mauser rifles coming in lately from Brazil I believe in 30.06 that will cover both ruggedness and ammo availability issues.

I have an old sporterized 03A3 I picked up but my favorite working rifle is my old No4Mk1 and I would not be afraid to carry either if SHTF.

[jack404]

folks , this is looking like ford v's holden ( GM to you folk) debate

its a case of what you know best

i like battle rifles but thats what i am used to

i've a mate never been in the military but knowing the guy and his .308 sporting rifle , i'd be REAL worried going up against him,

same for some older bloke with thier LE .303's i want them on my side as i know what they can do

use what you are comfortable and know best

my personal thought use the weapon of your enemy if your invaded as they'll have resupply and you may not

if the boots on the other foot use what your side uses

keeping whatever rifle you have fed and maintianed is way more important than brand,type and hype

i know what a few good men in a bad spot can do,

i started with a L1A1 ( FN ) then backwards to a Owen gun and a M79

then to a M 16 with 203 attachment then to a GPMG M60
then to a Parker Hale 2000 series,
then to a styer and along the way used AK47 AK 74's AKM's
Skorpion even later HK MP5's and MPK's

all had thier point, good and bad, but when learned and used correctly all got the job done

folks its the man/woman using the weapon 95% of the time ( Khmer Rougue snipers where mainly women and scarey good eh)

not the weapon that gets the job done, they all just sit there without a operator......

so choose what you want based on what you can get/have /supply/afford/ maintain ( read as practical for you)

and good shooting to all of you, if/when indeed the doo doo does hit the whirly thingamajig

cheers

jack

[Big ugly]

Here Here Jack you are right on the money.

[petesusn]

As Jack said. "use what you are comfortable with and know best." One rifle, one pistol/revolver, one knife and the knowledge to use them.

[old semperfi]

WELL FOR ME THERE IS ONLY ONE.MY HAND BUILT M-14.IT DIF CAN ROCK AND ROLL AND IT FEELS LIKE A BABY IN MY HANDS. OLD SEMPERFI

[islenos]

invest in a good leather or paracord slingshot, bullets will soon run out but there will always be a abundance of rocks.

[45nut]

Originally Posted by Alpo

Then you have the people that don’t own a gun because they don’t want a gun because they think the police are gonna protect them and that guns are bad and that only criminals and gangbangers have guns and that guns are bad (oh, I already said that, didn’t I?). Then, when the fecal matter strikes the rotary oscillator, he comes running up and says, “Gimme a gun”. Screw you. You don’t know anything about guns, you’re afraid of guns, you still think the cops are gonna protect you, and if I give you a gun you will probably shoot me in the back with it if one of the blue-helmets offers you nylons or Hershey bars.

+1 Alpo

[wpage]

Keep it simple. I like the tried and trued .22 and 06 rounds & 12 ga. Same with weapons. Planning to dig in at home and ride out the event. If we have to go. It will be with the lightest stuff to carry.
Its all dependent on situations and plans exactly what to take for defense.

[Airborne80]

Originally Posted by Alpo

I have seen the “arm my neighbors” put forth on several boards. Back when you could get an SKS for 80 bucks, “Buy a bunch of ‘em, so I can arm my neighbors, in case the world goes to hell”. 75-dollar Yugos? Same thing. Buy a half-dozen or so, along with case upon case of that 35-dollar-a-case ammo. “To arm the neighbors”. Now the 50-dollar Moisins. But I’ve actually given that some thought.

First, anyone that is really, as john put it, a “friend of the Constitution” probably already has a gun. And if he has a gun, he ain’t gonna want that. You come up to me with a 5-foot long piece of “commie crud”, that looks like it was found in the muck when they were digging a new foundation at a construction site in Stalingrad, and tell me I should use it, instead of my Browning BLR. Now, my BLR is a fine gun, but it was never designed for shooting a thousand rounds a day, every day for a week. The Moisin is a better choice. But I ain’t’ gonna believe you, and am gonna stick with my Browning, until it lets me down in the middle of a firefight.

Then you have the people that don’t own a gun because they don’t want a gun because they think the police are gonna protect them and that guns are bad and that only criminals and gangbangers have guns and that guns are bad (oh, I already said that, didn’t I?). Then, when the fecal matter strikes the rotary oscillator, he comes running up and says, “Gimme a gun”. Screw you. You don’t know anything about guns, you’re afraid of guns, you still think the cops are gonna protect you, and if I give you a gun you will probably shoot me in the back with it if one of the blue-helmets offers you nylons or Hershey bars.

Lastly you have the group that wants a gun, but is either too young, too broke, or too henpecked to have one. These people, most likely, have no experience with guns, because they don’t own one, so giving them a 5-foot long rifle that will kick the heck out of ‘em doesn’t seem like the best choice.

Hahahah! Man... I am new here but yea..... You got it right brother. Very well said. Hooah!

[Airborne80]

Originally Posted by cycloneman

Most of the ammo i see in 7.62 x 39 is of the non reload type. Should shtf this ammo will dry up. Importation of this ammo will cease and probably long before shtf will happen. Domestic manufactures will not care about this ammo since they will probably be making 223 and 308's out the a$$. I think ammo is the biggest reason for your decission on what gun you may want to have. A gun without ammo is a paperweight.

I like the way some people think. I see it all the time. A guy buys a pistol at a cheaper price and says something like "well I bought this cheapie cause I am only going to carry it in the car". What this person is actually saying is that in the worst position I could possibly be in, I will accept a cheap POS to defend my life with. Think about it, does your life not deserve the best you can afford? Also does your life not deserve a weapon you will allways be able to find ammo for?

How much ammo is enough? When you think you have that one figured out, you dont.

That is why I took up reloading my own ammo. I never pass the gun store without buying primers, powder or projectiles. This stuff (along with ammo) will be used for trade as well if things go sideways. Just a thought.

[jack404]

Heck when they started banning guns an looking hard at ammo sales here i chose what i could make everything myself

FLINTLOCKS

Powder 100% home made

Rifle 100% home made

Ball and shot 100% recycled Lead cast at home

then i got my battle axe's and machettes

actually i got stashes all over the place, been stocking since about 86

ammo , both regular and powder and ball

food , med supplies,

with 300Million jihadis of the coast an a few hundred thousand in the country already you'd be mad NOT TO

[Laufer]

jack404:
Do you mean being sort of near Indonesia? Maybe some of you guys have LE "Jungle Carbines", or a #4?
If so, you might enjoy Youtube: "Jollygreenslug": he's over there in "Oz".

Cautious Bob:
The price/value and dependability of a MN can't be surpassed, but my first Mauser (Yugo 48A) allows me to hit a target at 50 yards in a much smaller group with surplus Yugo/Rom. 8mm ammo, than with both of my MN 44s, bayos extended or retracted.

The groups with my former MN 44s (bright bore/good rifling did not help me much) and common Bulgarian x54R were terrible.

ski9393:
I'm sorry that I sidetracked your interesting topic away from just a choice of guns, but the vast majority of people would be stuck if fuel can not be pumped up.
The lack of clean water in the summer would be very nasty (where cottonmouth snakes and farm chemicals float by) or deadly, unless pur. tablets are handy.

[jack404]

Originally Posted by Laufer

jack404:
Do you mean being near Indonesia? Maybe some of you guys have LE "Jungle Carbines", or a #4?
If so, you might enjoy Youtube: "Jollygreenslug": he's over there in "Oz".

yeah rodger has been around a while

i sold him a 1897 Mk 1 and a few other bits for his collection recently

you'd be surpised what we have but we'll leave that as a surprise till needed eh

cheers

jack

[Laufer]

His videos are interesting and informative.

You might also enjoy typing into Youtube, "420 yards". A guy in northern CA compares muzzle and 420 yard energy of several rifles, and appears to attempt part of "the mad minute".

[Bigdog265]

Originally Posted by carver

I tend to lean to the modern fire arms. Not to say that the military surplus rifles won't get the job done, because they will. The biggest reason for my choice is caliber. .44 Mag in pistol, and rifle. .357 Mag in pistol and rifle, etc. If the SHTF, and you have to move out, ammo that will work in a hand gun, and or, rifle/carbine, would be so much easier to carry. I know that the distance the military rifles will shoot is so much greater than the pistol type ammo. However, if I have to bug out, and I probably won't, I would be headed for the deep woods. There shots of over 100 yds are hard to find, so I don't think I would need a rifle that would shoot out to 1000 yds. If I lived in open country I'm sure that I would have a different out look! Still, I would love to own one of these fine military rifles, and have told my wife that I would like a K-98 for Christmass! Keep your fingers crossed for me!!

If your looking for the best pistol and old mil and modern rifle ammo it would be 9mm.That and 223 would be the most common ammo in a bug out sit.308 would be very common but not for a pistol.223 wouid also be very common and even 7.62x39 for a rifle or pistol

[The_Rifleman]

Originally Posted by 308 at my gate

I love my non military bolt action rifles and it only takes one shot to get the job done.

I took "one shot" with my Eddystone US Model of 1917 yesterday.

Iron Sights, 8 Inch Target, 400 Yards

It may not be able to shoot as well as my Howa...

Iron Sights VS Scope

...so I will use the Eddystone and have a less experienced shooter use the Howa.

[ampaterry]

I agree on the SKS - GREAT little piece.

03 is good too -

Shoot, come to think of it, there are a LOT of good ones -