Navy SEALs charged with...

[Marlin T]

As far as I'm concerned, these guys shouldn't have stopped with a fat lip. They should have beat this scum bag to death.

I can not express enough outrage about this story

Now to think that this douche might get a trial in NYC, sickening.

SEALs charged in alleged assault of detainee



By Gidget Fuentes - Staff writer
Posted : Tuesday Nov 24, 2009 17:41:46 EST
SAN DIEGO — Three Navy SEALs are facing court-martial for allegedly assaulting and mishandling a detainee they captured in Iraq in September, military officials said.

The three SEALs — Special Warfare Operators 2nd Class Matthew McCabe and Jonathan Keefe, and SO1 Julio Huertas — will be arraigned Dec. 7 in a military court in Norfolk, Va., said Army Lt. Col. Holly Silkman, a spokeswoman with U.S. Special Operations Command Central.
McCabe is charged with one count each of assault of the detainee, dereliction of duty and making a false official statement, Silkman said. Officials accuse McCabe of “willfully failing to safeguard a detainee,” Silkman said.

Keefe is charge with one count each of dereliction of duty and false official statement; Huertas is accused of dereliction of duty, false official statement and impeding an investigation, she said.
Army Maj. Gen. Charles Cleveland, SOCCent commander, preferred the charges against the SEALs and will serve as the convening authority as the cases proceed to court-martial, tentatively scheduled for mid-January, Silkman said.

None of the SEALs is confined, she added.
The alleged incident happened in Iraq on or about Sept. 1, Silkman said. “The one thing I can’t talk about is this alleged victim,” she said.
No other details about the alleged incident were immediately available.
The SEALs have been assigned military attorneys to defend them in the cases, which will be tried separately as special courts-martial.
One defense attorney said they had refused to accept nonjudicial punishment, administrative actions that some in the military may consider as a admission of guilt.

Neal Puckett, a defense attorney who is representing McCabe, said the SEALs are being essentially charged for allegedly giving the detainee “a punch in the gut.”

They are expected to plead not guilty when they appear at their arraignment. “They are all together and they all maintain that they are innocent of these charges,” said Puckett, a retired Marine Corps lieutenant colonel and judge advocate.

The SEALs were on the tail-end of their deployment to Iraq when the alleged incident happened, he said.

Puckett offered no details about the alleged incident, but said that “in a combat environment, the handling of a detainee … these things happen all the time and can easily be justified as maintaining [control of] a detainee.”
McCabe’s special court-martial is slated to begin Jan. 19, he said.

Huertas, 28, is originally from Blue Island, Ill., and enlisted in 1999. He has served in special warfare units since 2002. He has an Iraq Campaign Medal and was advanced in June 2006, Navy records show.

McCabe, 24 is originally from Perrysburg, Ohio, and enlisted in 2003. He served on the Amphibious Assault Ship Belleau Wood before training in special warfare. He was advanced in September 2007, Navy records show.
Keefe, 25, is originally from Yorktown, Va., and enlisted in 2006. He began SEAL training the same year, Navy records show. He was last advanced in June 2008.

Cmdr. Greg Geisen, a Naval Special Warfare Command spokesman in Coronado, Calif., referred all questions about the charges to SOCCent.
The charges were first reported by Fox News, which posted a story on its Web site Tuesday, saying the charges surround the SEALs’ handling of Ahmed Hashim Abed, who is believed to be connected to the 2004 slaying of four U.S. security contractors in Fallujah.

[Hardballer]

I have no words.

[walien]

Detainee doesn't mean that the person actually did anything. The article notes that no details were available. The Navy doesn't charge people with something like this for no good reason. I think you're both jumping to conclusions without more information. In any case, if the soldiers had orders to safeguard the prisoner and not rough him up, they should have been following orders, should they not? You tend to get in trouble in the military for not doing that even if your actions are fairly justified.

[40CalJoe]

or maybe......just maybe the bad guys have found out how to beat us with our own justice system. They have eliminated 2 Seals from the fight without firing a shot. They have learned that all they have to do is just make an accusation.

This coming from the same people whose police force beats the hell out of detainees under Saddam's reign. This is BS pure and simple.

[red14]

Originally Posted by walien

Detainee doesn't mean that the person actually did anything. The article notes that no details were available. The Navy doesn't charge people with something like this for no good reason. I think you're both jumping to conclusions without more information. In any case, if the soldiers had orders to safeguard the prisoner and not rough him up, they should have been following orders, should they not? You tend to get in trouble in the military for not doing that even if your actions are fairly justified.

First off, they were Seals, not soldiers. Sailors.
Second, if they hit him, it was necessary.
Third, accused means they are innocent until proven guilty. They chose this course to prove they are innocent.

Fourth, we are at war. Let's back our side. These men are there to serve their country. I trust these highly trained and courageous men with anything. I've known a few Seals, and honor them more than anyone else.

[EddieS1967]

Outrageous

Now, if they had cut the MF's head off, I might could see making em' do.....................................................2 pushups each

[carver]

WTF! Maybe they just should have shot him intead of puching him! What a crock! Leave our military men and women alone you dumb jerks!

[ampaterry]

Originally Posted by carver

WTF! Maybe they just should have shot him intead of puching him! What a crock! Leave our military men and women alone you dumb jerks!

I have to agree.

Remember Getz in Chicago -

In all cases like this, if the scumbag is DEAD, they never call a lawyer and create problems like this.

[Trouble 45-70]

Well at least our President pardoned 2 Thanksgiving Turkeys.
Meanwhile our Seals who laid their lives on the line to catch this Murdering Terrorist are charged with a busted lip and face an Admirals mast. If they are charged with anything it should be for taking this man alive in the current Political Climate.
A tip of the hat to these SEALS and a good swift kick in the a** and reduction in rank for the Admiral who let this proceed. Talk about aiding and abetting the enemy. That used to be the definition of treason.

[killbuck]

The time has come to take no prisoners. Shoot 'em and leave them lay.
End of comment.

[hkruss]

Originally Posted by walien

Detainee doesn't mean that the person actually did anything. The article notes that no details were available. The Navy doesn't charge people with something like this for no good reason. I think you're both jumping to conclusions without more information. In any case, if the soldiers had orders to safeguard the prisoner and not rough him up, they should have been following orders, should they not? You tend to get in trouble in the military for not doing that even if your actions are fairly justified.

What I have heard on the news is that the guy was turned over to Iraqi authorities and then claimed he was assaulted. Maybe, maybe not. In any case, do you really think that the U.S. military should devote time and resources as well as taking valuable assets (SEALs) out of the fight?
This is not like in the U.S., where, if some lowlife accuses a cop of brutality, the cop is usually put on desk duty and Internal Affairs has the luxury of taking several weeks to investigate. We can not afford that in a time of war! Sure, if it was some My Lai type incident, yeah, a full fledged investigation would be appropriate, but this is some little turd who got a fat lip.


Boo Frickin' Hoo!!!


I seriously doubt the SEALs orders included the words, "don't rough up the suspect". If you know anything about the SEALs, you would know they are professionals of the first order. And no, I am not a SEAL, but I have read extensively about them and from what I have read, I feel certain these guys did only what was necessary to capture this guy. But you are right in one respect, we were not there, so how do we know? Well, you believe what you want, I will believe what I want.

How about this argument. The word gets out, (and it will), that if you are captured by the Americans, all you have to do is say they assaulted you, and you will effectively tie up U.S. resources and take U.S. personnel from the battle field. We can not allow this to happen! This is war, not some U.S. city with a citizen making a complaint. To believe otherwise is foolish in my opinion!
At most, I think their immediate superiors should question them, and then decide if it is serious enough to go up the chain of command. Personally, I think the U.S. commanders are so scared of that joke of a president and attorney general we have, that they allow this kind of B S proceeding to go forward to cover their rears fearing repercussions from above. Now why would I say that? How about having to Mirandize enemy combatants in the field. Or giving enemy combatants civil trials instead of military tribunals.
These guys are NOT U.S. citizens, therefore they should not be afforded these rights. There is no gray area here! Our top leaders are a bunch of spineless wussies and the fear of upsetting them is pervading our military leadership.

In case you are not picking up on it, I am calling
B.S. on our so called leaders!!!


I doubt I have the intellectual firepower to win a debate with some folks here, but I do have some common sense. I just wish more people would use their common sense.

[EddieS1967]

Well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[red14]

Originally Posted by EddieS1967

Well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes it is. Outstanding is what I say.

[Qoute, hkruss]""If you know anything about the SEALs, you would know they are professionals of the first order.
This is war, not some U.S. city with a citizen making a complaint. To believe otherwise is foolish in my opinion!
In any case, do you really think that the U.S. military should devote time and resources as well as taking valuable assets (SEALs) out of the fight?
These guys are NOT U.S. citizens, therefore they should not be afforded these rights. There is no gray area here!""[Qoute]

I will disagree with you on one point. You have won the argument. You can talk for me anyday.

Thank you HK!

[TheGunClinger]

Originally Posted by red14

Yes it is. Outstanding is what I say.

[Qoute, hkruss]""If you know anything about the SEALs, you would know they are professionals of the first order.
This is war, not some U.S. city with a citizen making a complaint. To believe otherwise is foolish in my opinion!
In any case, do you really think that the U.S. military should devote time and resources as well as taking valuable assets (SEALs) out of the fight?
These guys are NOT U.S. citizens, therefore they should not be afforded these rights. There is no gray area here!""[Qoute]

I will disagree with you on one point. You have won the argument. You can talk for me anyday.

Thank you HK!

#1++

[GMFWoodchuck]

Our servicemen our soldiers and sailors, not prosecutor, judge, and jury. If they touched him without cause then they should be thrown out and punished to the fullest extent of the law. Remember, this is the exact thing that they are supposed to be fighting, corruption in government. Our servicemen have specific orders, break them and they should be punished.

We need to rememeber, our servicemen are NOT judge and jury. These people whether or not citizens of the United States or not are afforded the same exact rights that you and I all have. Remember this quote from our Declaration of Independence "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." We can not assume that people of other countries don't have these same very rights that our declaration of independence states that ALL MEN have.

We can not have our servicemen going around doing as they please. We need them to be absolute upstanding men following ethics to the letter. They aren't there to play "He touched me first." We need them to get the populations of both Iraq and Afganistan to look at us and say "Hey, maybe they are better than us. Perhaps we should do what they do and stop this nonsense." Only then will our missions succeed.

[jedwil]

Originally Posted by GMFWoodchuck

Our servicemen our soldiers and sailors, not prosecutor, judge, and jury. If they touched him without cause then they should be thrown out and punished to the fullest extent of the law. Remember, this is the exact thing that they are supposed to be fighting, corruption in government. Our servicemen have specific orders, break them and they should be punished.

We need to rememeber, our servicemen are NOT judge and jury. These people whether or not citizens of the United States or not are afforded the same exact rights that you and I all have. Remember this quote from our Declaration of Independence "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." We can not assume that people of other countries don't have these same very rights that our declaration of independence states that ALL MEN have.

We can not have our servicemen going around doing as they please. We need them to be absolute upstanding men following ethics to the letter. They aren't there to play "He touched me first." We need them to get the populations of both Iraq and Afganistan to look at us and say "Hey, maybe they are better than us. Perhaps we should do what they do and stop this nonsense." Only then will our missions succeed.

I don't things are so simple, so black and white that you can expect prefect behavior and judgment during WAR. I certainly believe if this sort of PC mentality persists, we might as well withdraw and never engage another enemy. Can't win a war with the PC guys running things.
Perhaps we should allow our service personnel to adopt the behavior of those we are opposing.

[Terry_P]

If you read "Lone Survivor" by Marcus Luttrell you realize that the PC crap caused 3 members of Seal Team 10 their lives plus all the Seals that were killed on the recue helo that was shot down while coming to their aid in Afghanistan.

One of the last thing I'm going to worry about is whether a terrorist gets a fat lip or not. To automatically give them what was called an Article 15 in the Army (Captains Mast in the Navy) based on what a terrorist said tells the servicemen what they say doesn't count. It's great the seals refused and hopefully the officers who judge them will have the same fortitude and find for the Seals. If not they are screwed as this President only pardons turkeys and gang bangers oh but I repeat myself.

[22WRF]

I think it's time to come home there is no way this administration wants to win this war. It's senseless to waste anymore live. Reminds me of another time another war that was won until the politicians decided they didn't want to win.

[Terry_P]

I agree if you aren't going to support them then bring them home. BO is supposed to announce he is giving McChrystal 3/4 of what he asked for 3 months ago. Col Hunt today said what we should do is pull the regular troops out of Afghanistan and put 20,000 special ops in there to just hunt bad guys and forget the nation building. Actually makes sense.

[hkruss]

GMF, while I certainly respect your opinion, I still have a couple of problems with it. First, while they may be endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, I do not believe that includes the same civil rights afforded to U.S. citizens under our constitution.
These are enemy combatants not U.S. citizens. Should we have given the Nazi and Japaneses war criminals civil rights when they were prosecuted after WWII? Do you think Khalid Sheik Mohammed and the other 9/11 conspirators deserve a civil trial? I just feel if you attack the U.S., you are an enemy combatant and should be treated as such. You may have unalienable rights but not civil rights, (unless you are a U.S. citizen).
As far as this "alleged" terrorist with the fat lip, I feel it could have been addressed by the immediate superiors of the SEALs. Maybe it was. Maybe the higher ups did not like how it was handled and escalated the incident from the local level. I know, supposition on my part, but I certainly do not think it warrants these guys being put through courts martial. Just my opinion.
As an aside, the SEALs could have pled guilty ( I think the term was "to an Admission of Grievances", [not sure]) and not faced court martial. The fact that they chose to face court martial and dispute the charges says a lot to me about the veracity of the charges against them. Again, I know, that does not prove their innocence, just my opinion.
Another problem. What if every suspected terrorist who is caught claims he was abused by his American captors? How do you handle that? You know it is going to happen now that it worked for this one guy. Do we create a mountain of administration and pull every accused G.I. off the line while his case is being decided? That is exactly what will happen if we allow this one guy to establish a precedent. For the most part, I think our guys fight as fairly as possible. Our enemies don't have that hindrance. They will use this as another weapon against us.
You are right in saying, "we can't have our servicemen going around doing as they please". For the most part, they don't. But this is not like the recent case where some G.I.'s were convicted of murdering some Iraqis and dumping them in a canal.That, deserved a full investigation, a fat lip does not. Just my opinion.
One more opinion. I have never seen combat. I have never seen a friends head blown off or a bomb kill numerous innocent women and children in a market. Or four Blackwater security guys murdered, mutilated and hung on a bridge in celebration. But if I had, I don't think I would lend much credence to someone who has done those things.
Just my opinion.


.

[mncarpenter]

Originally Posted by GMFWoodchuck

Our servicemen our soldiers and sailors, not prosecutor, judge, and jury. If they touched him without cause then they should be thrown out and punished to the fullest extent of the law. Remember, this is the exact thing that they are supposed to be fighting, corruption in government. Our servicemen have specific orders, break them and they should be punished.

Woodchuck, I generally agree with you, but I don't think the Navy sends the SEALS on a mission to capture someone unless they have some pretty damn good intelligence and are confident this guy is who they think he is. On that note, he's lucky he got a fat lip, and his rights, in my mind are less than a sewer rat, considering the hideousness of what he allegedly did..yes , I said allegedly, but oh, well.

[EddieS1967]

I'm sorry, saying that the terrorist's have certain unalienable rights is bullchit. If he did have any rights, he pissed em away when he decided to take up terrorism and murder as his hobby, just like that piece of sh!t that our messiah thinks should be brought to NYC to be tried as a civilian while our servicemen are brought before a military tribunal, wth.

[Bobitis]

When did POWs in other countries get the same rights as the citizens?

It seems it's ok to chop of an American journalists head, but we can't give a fat lip to a terrorist?

When did anyone die from a busted lip?

Dead men tell no tales.

[Lori Mick]

Why is it ok for the SEIU to beat up a tea bagger ?
Why do terrorists get constitutional rights?
Why are Americans the bad guys?

When I heard this story on the news this morning, I went bonkers! Those Seals are Heros!

[Mr. Nameless]

So they're in trouble for doing their job?