No Serial Number - The Firearms Forum

lonewolfmp63 · 12-18-2009, 11:56 AM

I have a question of concern that I am hoping can be answered. I do not have that much knowledge on the law pertaining to the specifics on the missing serial number on a handgun. I do know that it is a Remington Rand Inc 1911 made in Syracuse, NY. I received the handgun as a gift from an older Combat Veteran, who has passed away, that served in the War and was issued this weapon. The weapon is in by no means mint condition, but it fires very well. The handle piece of the handgun is a shiny silver metal (chrome, nickel...not sure) and the rest seems to be standard issue. After a period of time, I took the handgun to a local gun shop and was told that he cannot help me because there was no serial number. He then tried to find one with a small grinder of some sort and chemical, but to no avail. Really all he did was made the appearance worse. "Thanks guy". I never found out if the serial number was either filed off, did it ever have one or what. Then he told me that the gun was more trouble than it is worth to have and suggested that I get rid of the handgun and purchase a handgun with a serial number. He did say that he could make the handgun legal by replacing the handgrip, but was going to cost me a min. of $450. I do not want to have an illegal handgun, but at the same time it is a very functional gun that I can use to protect my wife and child if the time ever came.

My question is... 1. Is it legal or illegal to have a handgun without a serial number?

2. If I was ever to use this weapon in self defense (someone breaking in my house, robbing me ect..), would I also be in trouble?

Any information will be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Shane

gdmoody · 12-18-2009, 12:51 PM

lonewolf - first, welcome to the forum

This is just my opinion but I think the guy is trying to rip you off with charging you $450 to "change the handgrip". That is kind of steep to put a new receiver on a 1911, in these parts you can buy a new Rock Island or one of the lower grade Springfield 1911s for that $450.

I am not sure of this next statement but I will make it anyway - it is possible that the early Remington Rand 1911's did not have serial numbers. I know that some early rifles did not have them because they were not required at the time.

RJay · 12-18-2009, 01:24 PM

All 1911's of that era had serial numbers. If it has any markings at all it's not a " Lunch box gun" and the serial number has been removed. It is illegal as h-e double LL. Sorry about that. However the parts are not illegal and collectors are always looking for the correct slide, barrel, and so on. but the grip frame with no serial number has to go.If I remember correctly. long arms were not required by law to have serial numbers prior to 1968, but handguns were required that nicety since 1935. regardless, all 1911's by Colt or any of the authorized wartime makers had serial numbers. To keep the gun as is , is really playing with fire.

guns4life · 12-18-2009, 04:52 PM

please do not part that gun out I would be interested in it could you take a picture of it and post it thanks

deadin · 12-18-2009, 05:30 PM

Quote:

please do not part that gun out I would be interested in it

Are you trying to talk this guy into an illegal act??
If it has no serial and from what he has stated, a gunsmith tried to raise one with a grinder and acid. Whether it ever had one is now a moot point as it will appear that the serial was removed or obliterated. In either case it is a Federal offense to buy or sell a firearm that had had the serial removed, altered or otherwise defaced.

johnlives4christ · 12-18-2009, 05:32 PM

serial numbers were not required until 68 if i recall correctly. the frame is not a remington rand unless it has been altered. but it could have been a frame someone sneaked out, and made a lunch box guns as it's coined. i would expect any gunsmith could order frames without numbers... and then build custom pistols and number them accordingly. and before 68, no numbers were required.

i would keep it and not worry about it. in a few years you'll need all the guns you can get

Alpo · 12-18-2009, 05:33 PM

I don't know whether pistols were required to have numbers since '35. I do know that all guns made for the military, in the 20th century, had serials. And I do know that having a gun that has had the SN removed is illegal.

So, if you have a Remington Rand receiver, someone has removed the SN. Like Ron said, illegal as aitch eee double hockey sticks.

If it was me, I'd strip the receiver and then get in touch with ATF. Tell them what you have, and that you want to see if they can raise the numbers, so it can be re-serialed. If it works, your gun is legal again, and you can put it back together. If it doesn't work, they will confiscate the receiver, since it is "contraband". But you shouldn't get in any trouble for it. I wouldn't take them the whole gun, though, because if it is determined to be non-fixable, they'd keep the whole gun, and you'd be out everything. Detail strip it, and just take in the frame.

johnlives4christ · 12-18-2009, 05:42 PM

i didnt know serials were required on handguns in 35.

wouldnt it work to just weld the gun back up and stamp a number on it?

deadin · 12-18-2009, 06:45 PM

Quote:

wouldnt it work to just weld the gun back up and stamp a number on it?

You missed the point. All military frames had a serial number. If that serial number has been removed, the gun in contraband. (You can't just "remark" it.) If, by some chance the frame was "lunchboxed" before the serial was applied, there is currently no way to tell because the gunsmith "tried to raise the serial with a grinder and acid." This little operation will appear for all intents and purposes that the serial number has been ground off. I don't think the Feds will buy the "we were just looking for a serial number" bit. The gun is contraband. However, only the frame is considered to be the "gun", so, as suggested, strip all of the parts and lose the frame. (Cut it into at least 3 pieces (at least one cut through the rails), turn it in, deep six it, whatever. Just don't get caught with it.)

RJay · 12-18-2009, 07:05 PM

I could be wrong about the 1935 and 1937 Federal Firearms Acts. Few months ago I was trying to wade through the written pages of the Act and I was surprised that handguns were required to have serial numbers. Come to think about it have anyone seen a hand gun made after 1935 that doesn't have a serial number? Also in addition to what Deadin posted. In the case of a missing serial number, it is presumed that the possessor is the one who removed the number and must prove other wise and that no criminal intent was meant. In other words , you are guilty until you can prove otherwise.

jondar · 12-19-2009, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnlives4christ

i didnt know serials were required on handguns in 35.

wouldnt it work to just weld the gun back up and stamp a number on it?

Don't take my word for it as I can't document where I read it, but I believe you can have a number stamped on it by a practicing gunsmith. A phone call to the BATFE could either confirm or deny this. However; there are things we don't know about this gun from the OP's posting. Is there a United States Property stamping on it? Or a cartouche of the inspector on the frame? If so, it's a military pistol and had a serial number at one time. Removing the serial number was a not uncommon practice by owners that feared the Government was going to come and pick up their pistol. These pistols were released for public sale around IIRC 1951 and you could buy one for $25. Also IIRC all records pertaining to serial numbers were destroyed in the 1960's. FWIW. Jon

yellerdawg · 12-19-2009, 09:43 PM

A very interesting post. I hear often of : lunch box" term and that there " was " maybe periods where serials were not needed..?

I would thik that any would be eager to help concerning this...but I lean toward having such questions checked on by the Fed's themselves...

Sure seems complicated per these areas sometimes....but I do enjoy learning more and I have learned from some here...thanks..and Iwill be checking up some more..it is very interesting...

I have heard that there are the Fed Laws and then there are the State laws...etc..I used to think that the Fed law ALWAYS trumped any State firearms law...but have seen where thats not always true...if what I saw was correct...etc.....

I even read that ...per Fed and SOME State laws you can make a weapon...or ONE weapon or NOT for resale...etc..

so in this guys case...if thats true...well...as an example....I could get a notorized affidavit ( witnessed ) by giving relative or witness thereof...as to original ownership and chain of possesion down...etc...

or in case of making one...and I know people do make 1911's....

well...go piddle in a machine shop for several hours and ask to rent time on any equipment...etc...and get "receipt "...from place that has such mill equipment...etc..voila...you made a receiver....if it is indeed a blank non ever stamped frame...

but this is all grey and I still think the proper thing to do is ask proper authorities possibly...?

Interesting subject......sure like to learn more.....main thing is to observe the law.....

johnlives4christ · 12-20-2009, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadin

You missed the point. All military frames had a serial number. If that serial number has been removed, the gun in contraband. (You can't just "remark" it.) If, by some chance the frame was "lunchboxed" before the serial was applied, there is currently no way to tell because the gunsmith "tried to raise the serial with a grinder and acid." This little operation will appear for all intents and purposes that the serial number has been ground off. I don't think the Feds will buy the "we were just looking for a serial number" bit. The gun is contraband. However, only the frame is considered to be the "gun", so, as suggested, strip all of the parts and lose the frame. (Cut it into at least 3 pieces (at least one cut through the rails), turn it in, deep six it, whatever. Just don't get caught with it.)

i know all military arms had serial numbers. but i was thinking that this isnt a military arm and thus, might not have had one when made. The frame i mean. i could put a remington rand slide on a kimber, but that doesnt make it a remington rand 1911.

having given it some thought, if it were mine, i would do the following. strip the gun. until something is proven to be a way out, either turning the frame in, or modifying it and making it legal again.

if you're friends with a gunsmith you might talk to him, perhaps he can go through the necessary process to have the frame serial numbered as if it were a new frame that he was building a pistol on. weld it back up and number it as normal it could have a unique serial number also. then it would be legal and the feds would have no idea when the frame was made unless it had ordinance marks or some other marks that would date it.

the other option is to replace the frame.

Bill DeShivs · 12-20-2009, 01:48 AM

There were also unfinished frames sold for many years, that you could finish machine.

johnlives4christ · 12-20-2009, 04:37 AM

it's always been a secret dream of mine to buy a mill and a lathe and all the tools needed and completely make a pistol. both a single action colt and a 1911. from scratch. of course i dont know enough about metal, and stress and temporing and all of that to do it. but i would love to learn the knowledge and be able to make myself 2 pistols that were as homemade as they could get and then have them engraved. or better yet learn to engrave and do it myself, but yea... i dream big i guess.

jondar · 12-20-2009, 07:27 AM

It would certainly be nice if the OP would jump back in and accurately describe the pistol.

guns4life · 12-20-2009, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadin

Are you trying to talk this guy into an illegal act??
If it has no serial and from what he has stated, a gunsmith tried to raise one with a grinder and acid. Whether it ever had one is now a moot point as it will appear that the serial was removed or obliterated. In either case it is a Federal offense to buy or sell a firearm that had had the serial removed, altered or otherwise defaced.

I did not offer any money or any other kind of compensation I simply said I was interested in seeing it

lonewolfmp63 · 12-21-2009, 10:02 AM

First, I want to thank yall for all the advice that you have given. Secondly, here are a couple of pictures of the 1911 in question. Although I know that the end result appears that it is not going to be in my favor... I still will not part with this weapon due solely to the history that it involves. As the pictures show, this weapon is not even close to being in mint or even good condition, but what weapon carried in combat is. Both times, Afghanistan and Iraq, I tried to take care of my weapons. I knew they were my life line, but they still got scratched up like it was nobody’s business. After writing the initial Thread, I started thinking about the gentleman that they simply nicknamed Colonel. I thought about how he carried this 1911 in combat, don’t know if it was actually used or not, but do know that he was a leader of men in the field. After the war, I guess he decided that he was going to keep his weapon and he did. This weapon like many of your weapons has much history linked to it. Because of this, I am going to keep the weapon as is and simply just go buy another one that can be carried legally.

As you can see in one of the pictures, the gunsmith was really trying to find the serial number. He said that he is not sure one was there or whoever took the serial number off went really deep.

I do want to thank yall again for all the replies. Shane

deadin · 12-21-2009, 12:12 PM

Well, that's a real mongrel. As you said, the slide is a WW2 Remington-Rand.
However the frame and grips are from a M1911 (WW1 era) It has been denuded except for an inspectors mark at the left bottom of the trigger guard. This mark indicates to me that this was a military frame that should have a serial right where the "gunsmith" whizzed it with a grinder. It has also had the "Unitedf States Property" removed from the left side of the frame ahead of the slide release. In looking at my 1911, this marking is very lightly stamped and it wouldn't take much to polish it out. (However, it doesn't really matter when it comes to legality.)

Good Luck convincing anyone that there never was a serial number.

As for having it "restamped", I seem to recall that if a gunsmith needed to remove or obliterate a serial because of modifications to a gun, they could petition the ATF for permission to do so. They had to do this BEFORE removing the old one and then the same number was stamped elsewhere on the frame/receiver. Just making up a number and stamping it on the gun is a no-no.

Added: AFAIK no one has made 1911 frames (kit form, 80%'ers or whatever) since around 1927 when the 1911A1 came out.

jondar · 12-21-2009, 04:23 PM

Yes, all the important markings have been removed. The inspector's cartouche should be immediately above the magazine release button, the United States Property marking should be left side center below the slide. and serial number on the right side above the trigger. All gone. But I certainly would check with the BATFE and see what's legal and if you can get a number stamped on it. . Go to a pay phone.

BETH · 12-21-2009, 04:37 PM

what if the gun was used to murder someone????????

jondar · 12-21-2009, 05:49 PM

Maybe that's why there are no markings on it. that increases the value.

John S Bryant · 02-10-2010, 02:25 PM

to my knowledge ALL military 1911 and 1911A1 were assigned serial numbers. check a WW1 1911 and you will find a serial number and thats pre-1924

williamd · 05-12-2010, 04:21 PM

There is a barely visible Y where it used to say US Government Property in front of slide stop. Frame has been POLISHED a LOT. Appears to be an assemblers # on the trigger guard. My guess ... Colt frame and an arsenal overhaul with stampings removed for some reason ... corrision?? Remington Rand built none in the time period of the frame, in fact RR did not exist as a firearms manufacturere. Should be markings on top of frame (slide removed).

RJay · 05-12-2010, 05:29 PM

Old post but still alive. That gun was never a WWII issue, All 1911's had serial numbers. No military depot would polish off the all the markings, if so , it went into the scrap. It is a mix-master. Perhaps someone was scared of the Prop. Of the US Government And had it removed so no one would know. I've seen more than one other wise nice 1911 ruined that way. Who knows? It is not a lunch box gun. Odds are very high this gun was never carried in WWII, that fact will never be known for certain, the only thing for sure it was never issued for WWII use with a WWI frame and it was never an issue firearm in WWII ( or anytime ). The OP can do what ever he likes with the gun, Me, I would be scared to death of it and as I stated before, the frame would disappear.

12-18-2009, 11:56 AM	#1
lonewolfmp63 Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 2	No Serial Number I have a question of concern that I am hoping can be answered. I do not have that much knowledge on the law pertaining to the specifics on the missing serial number on a handgun. I do know that it is a Remington Rand Inc 1911 made in Syracuse, NY. I received the handgun as a gift from an older Combat Veteran, who has passed away, that served in the War and was issued this weapon. The weapon is in by no means mint condition, but it fires very well. The handle piece of the handgun is a shiny silver metal (chrome, nickel...not sure) and the rest seems to be standard issue. After a period of time, I took the handgun to a local gun shop and was told that he cannot help me because there was no serial number. He then tried to find one with a small grinder of some sort and chemical, but to no avail. Really all he did was made the appearance worse. "Thanks guy". I never found out if the serial number was either filed off, did it ever have one or what. Then he told me that the gun was more trouble than it is worth to have and suggested that I get rid of the handgun and purchase a handgun with a serial number. He did say that he could make the handgun legal by replacing the handgrip, but was going to cost me a min. of $450. I do not want to have an illegal handgun, but at the same time it is a very functional gun that I can use to protect my wife and child if the time ever came. My question is... 1. Is it legal or illegal to have a handgun without a serial number? 2. If I was ever to use this weapon in self defense (someone breaking in my house, robbing me ect..), would I also be in trouble? Any information will be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Shane -->

12-18-2009, 12:51 PM	#2
gdmoody Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Northeast Georgia Contributor Posts: 6,325	Re: No Serial Number lonewolf - first, welcome to the forum This is just my opinion but I think the guy is trying to rip you off with charging you $450 to "change the handgrip". That is kind of steep to put a new receiver on a 1911, in these parts you can buy a new Rock Island or one of the lower grade Springfield 1911s for that $450. I am not sure of this next statement but I will make it anyway - it is possible that the early Remington Rand 1911's did not have serial numbers. I know that some early rifles did not have them because they were not required at the time. __________________ NRA Endowment Member GeorgiaCarry.Org Member Retired US Army Postal Worker Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin'.....author unknown (but obviously brilliant)

12-18-2009, 01:24 PM	#3
RJay Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,487	Re: No Serial Number All 1911's of that era had serial numbers. If it has any markings at all it's not a " Lunch box gun" and the serial number has been removed. It is illegal as h-e double LL. Sorry about that. However the parts are not illegal and collectors are always looking for the correct slide, barrel, and so on. but the grip frame with no serial number has to go.If I remember correctly. long arms were not required by law to have serial numbers prior to 1968, but handguns were required that nicety since 1935. regardless, all 1911's by Colt or any of the authorized wartime makers had serial numbers. To keep the gun as is , is really playing with fire. __________________ RonJames Last edited by RJay; 12-18-2009 at 02:11 PM..

12-18-2009, 04:52 PM	#4
guns4life V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: south carolina Posts: 281	Re: No Serial Number please do not part that gun out I would be interested in it could you take a picture of it and post it thanks __________________ If ever a time should come when vain and aspiring men shall posses the highest seats in goverment our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin SAMUEL ADAMS 1776

12-18-2009, 05:32 PM	#6
johnlives4christ Former Guest Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,828	Re: No Serial Number serial numbers were not required until 68 if i recall correctly. the frame is not a remington rand unless it has been altered. but it could have been a frame someone sneaked out, and made a lunch box guns as it's coined. i would expect any gunsmith could order frames without numbers... and then build custom pistols and number them accordingly. and before 68, no numbers were required. i would keep it and not worry about it. in a few years you'll need all the guns you can get

12-18-2009, 05:33 PM	#7
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,658	Re: No Serial Number I don't know whether pistols were required to have numbers since '35. I do know that all guns made for the military, in the 20th century, had serials. And I do know that having a gun that has had the SN removed is illegal. So, if you have a Remington Rand receiver, someone has removed the SN. Like Ron said, illegal as aitch eee double hockey sticks. If it was me, I'd strip the receiver and then get in touch with ATF. Tell them what you have, and that you want to see if they can raise the numbers, so it can be re-serialed. If it works, your gun is legal again, and you can put it back together. If it doesn't work, they will confiscate the receiver, since it is "contraband". But you shouldn't get in any trouble for it. I wouldn't take them the whole gun, though, because if it is determined to be non-fixable, they'd keep the whole gun, and you'd be out everything. Detail strip it, and just take in the frame. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

12-18-2009, 05:42 PM	#8
johnlives4christ Former Guest Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,828	Re: No Serial Number i didnt know serials were required on handguns in 35. wouldnt it work to just weld the gun back up and stamp a number on it?

12-18-2009, 07:05 PM	#10
RJay Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,487	Re: No Serial Number I could be wrong about the 1935 and 1937 Federal Firearms Acts. Few months ago I was trying to wade through the written pages of the Act and I was surprised that handguns were required to have serial numbers. Come to think about it have anyone seen a hand gun made after 1935 that doesn't have a serial number? Also in addition to what Deadin posted. In the case of a missing serial number, it is presumed that the possessor is the one who removed the number and must prove other wise and that no criminal intent was meant. In other words , you are guilty until you can prove otherwise. __________________ RonJames Last edited by RJay; 12-18-2009 at 08:14 PM..

12-19-2009, 09:43 PM	#12
yellerdawg Former Guest Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 244	Re: No Serial Number A very interesting post. I hear often of : lunch box" term and that there " was " maybe periods where serials were not needed..? I would thik that any would be eager to help concerning this...but I lean toward having such questions checked on by the Fed's themselves... Sure seems complicated per these areas sometimes....but I do enjoy learning more and I have learned from some here...thanks..and Iwill be checking up some more..it is very interesting... I have heard that there are the Fed Laws and then there are the State laws...etc..I used to think that the Fed law ALWAYS trumped any State firearms law...but have seen where thats not always true...if what I saw was correct...etc..... I even read that ...per Fed and SOME State laws you can make a weapon...or ONE weapon or NOT for resale...etc.. so in this guys case...if thats true...well...as an example....I could get a notorized affidavit ( witnessed ) by giving relative or witness thereof...as to original ownership and chain of possesion down...etc... or in case of making one...and I know people do make 1911's.... well...go piddle in a machine shop for several hours and ask to rent time on any equipment...etc...and get "receipt "...from place that has such mill equipment...etc..voila...you made a receiver....if it is indeed a blank non ever stamped frame... but this is all grey and I still think the proper thing to do is ask proper authorities possibly...? Interesting subject......sure like to learn more.....main thing is to observe the law.....

12-20-2009, 01:48 AM	#14
Bill DeShivs Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Contributor Posts: 1,469	Re: No Serial Number There were also unfinished frames sold for many years, that you could finish machine. __________________ Bill DeShivs www.billdeshivs.com

12-20-2009, 04:37 AM	#15
johnlives4christ Former Guest Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,828	Re: No Serial Number it's always been a secret dream of mine to buy a mill and a lathe and all the tools needed and completely make a pistol. both a single action colt and a 1911. from scratch. of course i dont know enough about metal, and stress and temporing and all of that to do it. but i would love to learn the knowledge and be able to make myself 2 pistols that were as homemade as they could get and then have them engraved. or better yet learn to engrave and do it myself, but yea... i dream big i guess.

12-20-2009, 07:27 AM	#16
jondar V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 458	Re: No Serial Number It would certainly be nice if the OP would jump back in and accurately describe the pistol.

12-21-2009, 10:02 AM	#18
lonewolfmp63 Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 2	Re: No Serial Number First, I want to thank yall for all the advice that you have given. Secondly, here are a couple of pictures of the 1911 in question. Although I know that the end result appears that it is not going to be in my favor... I still will not part with this weapon due solely to the history that it involves. As the pictures show, this weapon is not even close to being in mint or even good condition, but what weapon carried in combat is. Both times, Afghanistan and Iraq, I tried to take care of my weapons. I knew they were my life line, but they still got scratched up like it was nobody’s business. After writing the initial Thread, I started thinking about the gentleman that they simply nicknamed Colonel. I thought about how he carried this 1911 in combat, don’t know if it was actually used or not, but do know that he was a leader of men in the field. After the war, I guess he decided that he was going to keep his weapon and he did. This weapon like many of your weapons has much history linked to it. Because of this, I am going to keep the weapon as is and simply just go buy another one that can be carried legally. As you can see in one of the pictures, the gunsmith was really trying to find the serial number. He said that he is not sure one was there or whoever took the serial number off went really deep. I do want to thank yall again for all the replies. Shane Attached Images

12-21-2009, 12:12 PM	#19
deadin Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 858	Re: No Serial Number Well, that's a real mongrel. As you said, the slide is a WW2 Remington-Rand. However the frame and grips are from a M1911 (WW1 era) It has been denuded except for an inspectors mark at the left bottom of the trigger guard. This mark indicates to me that this was a military frame that should have a serial right where the "gunsmith" whizzed it with a grinder. It has also had the "Unitedf States Property" removed from the left side of the frame ahead of the slide release. In looking at my 1911, this marking is very lightly stamped and it wouldn't take much to polish it out. (However, it doesn't really matter when it comes to legality.) Good Luck convincing anyone that there never was a serial number. As for having it "restamped", I seem to recall that if a gunsmith needed to remove or obliterate a serial because of modifications to a gun, they could petition the ATF for permission to do so. They had to do this BEFORE removing the old one and then the same number was stamped elsewhere on the frame/receiver. Just making up a number and stamping it on the gun is a no-no. Added: AFAIK no one has made 1911 frames (kit form, 80%'ers or whatever) since around 1927 when the 1911A1 came out. Last edited by deadin; 12-21-2009 at 12:17 PM..

12-21-2009, 04:23 PM	#20
jondar V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 458	Re: No Serial Number Yes, all the important markings have been removed. The inspector's cartouche should be immediately above the magazine release button, the United States Property marking should be left side center below the slide. and serial number on the right side above the trigger. All gone. But I certainly would check with the BATFE and see what's legal and if you can get a number stamped on it. . Go to a pay phone.

12-21-2009, 04:37 PM	#21
BETH Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: naugatuck,Ct. Contributor Posts: 6,668	Re: No Serial Number what if the gun was used to murder someone????????

12-21-2009, 05:49 PM	#22
jondar V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 458	Re: No Serial Number Maybe that's why there are no markings on it. that increases the value.

02-10-2010, 02:25 PM	#23
John S Bryant Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: N.J. Posts: 37	Re: No Serial Number to my knowledge ALL military 1911 and 1911A1 were assigned serial numbers. check a WW1 1911 and you will find a serial number and thats pre-1924 __________________ Blessed are those who expect nothing....for they shall not be disappointed Last edited by John S Bryant; 03-27-2010 at 11:37 PM..

05-12-2010, 04:21 PM	#24
williamd Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: SoCal Posts: 772	Re: No Serial Number There is a barely visible Y where it used to say US Government Property in front of slide stop. Frame has been POLISHED a LOT. Appears to be an assemblers # on the trigger guard. My guess ... Colt frame and an arsenal overhaul with stampings removed for some reason ... corrision?? Remington Rand built none in the time period of the frame, in fact RR did not exist as a firearms manufacturere. Should be markings on top of frame (slide removed). __________________ "Outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns!" But, we are moving that direction. NRA Benefactor, Vet VN '64-'65 Never sell a gun or a car and you can retire right!! Last edited by williamd; 05-13-2010 at 12:09 PM..

05-12-2010, 05:29 PM	#25
RJay Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,487	Re: No Serial Number Old post but still alive. That gun was never a WWII issue, All 1911's had serial numbers. No military depot would polish off the all the markings, if so , it went into the scrap. It is a mix-master. Perhaps someone was scared of the Prop. Of the US Government And had it removed so no one would know. I've seen more than one other wise nice 1911 ruined that way. Who knows? It is not a lunch box gun. Odds are very high this gun was never carried in WWII, that fact will never be known for certain, the only thing for sure it was never issued for WWII use with a WWI frame and it was never an issue firearm in WWII ( or anytime ). The OP can do what ever he likes with the gun, Me, I would be scared to death of it and as I stated before, the frame would disappear. __________________ RonJames