Winchester Model 12 Slam-Fires - The Firearms Forum

CountryGunsmith · 02-24-2003, 01:08 AM

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rounder999
Member
Posts: 1
(1/5/03 10:17:39 am)
Reply | Edit | Del All Winchester Model 12 Auto Trigger?????
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I have the opportunity to trade for a winchester model 12 20ga for a fair price. However the shotgun fires if you hold the trigger down when the action is closed. The seller says he got it that way and it is supposed to be that way. It doesn't sound right to me and I think it may be in need of repair, a disconnector maybe? Has anyone had any experience with this and is it an expensive or complicated fix?

kdub01
*TFF Senior Staff*
Posts: 1698
(1/5/03 12:41:47 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Winchester Model 12 Auto Trigger?????
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Sounds to me like a very worn sear, or reassembled in an incorrect manner. ThinK I'd pass on it unless the problem could be remedied economically.
"Keep Off The Ridgeline"

JayL
Member
Posts: 48
(1/5/03 9:59:05 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Winchester Model 12 Auto Trigger?????
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This is a problem, as opposed to "normal." It is somewhat common on the model 12, but more often seen on the model 97. Generally it can be traced to a worn sear.
Jay L

"Move, Shoot, Communicate!"

rounder999
Member
Posts: 3
(1/7/03 1:49:57 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del I kind of thought so
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Thanks - it didn't seem right, even though it was a "gunsmith" who told me.

Hadaway
Member
Posts: 19
(1/10/03 12:25:24 am)
Reply | Edit | Del Winchester Model 12 Auto Trigger?????
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It's not a worn sear. There is a stud on the side of the hammer that is engaged by the slide lock. The slide lock holds the hammer in the cocked position while the action is being cycled. More than likely, the stud on the hammer is worn. It's not like it's supposed to be, but it's only a problem if you hold the trigger to the rear while cycling the action. If it's priced where you can have the hammer replaced and still come out to the good, you may want to consider buying it.

Thanks,
Lee
www.thearmsroom.com

rounder999
Member
Posts: 4
(1/13/03 5:21:11 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Thanks Lee
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I went ahead with the trade, an argentine police hi power I bought for 250.00 4 years ago and he kicked in 75.00. I don't think i'll get hurt as long as the repair isn't prhibitive.

RobC in Missouri
V.I.P. Member
Posts: 155
(1/17/03 5:53:40 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Thanks Lee
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I was under the impression that older Model 12s and some other shotguns would do this because they were made without disconnectors - at least that's what I read. I had an old Marlin shotgun that would do this...

Some people considered this a "feaure" because you can hold the trigger back and fire off shots as fast as you can pump.

RobC in Missouri

AntiqueDr
*TFF Senior Staff*
Posts: 3209
(1/17/03 6:03:35 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del
ezSupporter
Re: Thanks Lee
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That was the '97, not the Model 12.
We Buy Guns! 1 - 100, Antique or Modern!
www.apaxenterprises.com
Master Dealer for Kimber, Wilson Combat and Dan Wesson

redwing carson · 12-19-2010, 09:14 AM

The Mdl 97 was made to shoot with the trigger down and pump fire the weapon. That is why they were the prefered shot gun of lawmen and outlaws around the turn of the 20th century. I just love the love the old 97s but watch that hammer it will eat your thumb.

RC

mtnboomer · 12-19-2010, 06:34 PM

Yep, the Winchester Model 97 and 12 don't have a trigger disconnect that will only reset by releasing the trigger. They were made that way on purpose as were most firearms up to that period. OTOH, the new reproduction 97's from China DO have a disconnect and will not fire by holding the trigger back and cycling the action.

Jim K · 12-19-2010, 07:25 PM

Yes, the condition described in the original post is normal for a Model 12 as well as for Models 1893 and 1897.

Jim

Gabob · 12-19-2010, 08:15 PM

The Model 12 s are notorious for breaking the firing pin. Being tapered it is still trapped in the bolt but does not retract when the action is worked. Sometimes it continues to protrude and hangs up the shell being lifted to load. It is possible that the uncontrolled broken part of the pin could also cause a slamfire

BillM · 12-19-2010, 08:24 PM

It's normal. Heck----it's a FEATURE!

Winchester '97's and 1912's, Older Ithaca 37's, and IIRC the Stevens
520 shotguns, along with the 1890 Winchester 22's and probably
others, do not have a disconnector. Hold the trigger down and
pump---as soon as it goes into battery it will drop the hammer
and fire.

bluesea112 · 12-22-2010, 11:28 PM

I consider it a feature of the model 12 as well. When you are hunting dove on a tree line, and they fly across the corner at top speed, that slam fire feature is nice to have for a quick follow up shot. I have killed many dove with my model 12 that way.

02-24-2003, 01:08 AM	#1
CountryGunsmith Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Deep Piney Woods of East Texas Posts: 5,116	Winchester Model 12 Slam-Fires << Prev Topic \| Next Topic >> Author Comment rounder999 Member Posts: 1 (1/5/03 10:17:39 am) Reply \| Edit \| Del All Winchester Model 12 Auto Trigger????? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have the opportunity to trade for a winchester model 12 20ga for a fair price. However the shotgun fires if you hold the trigger down when the action is closed. The seller says he got it that way and it is supposed to be that way. It doesn't sound right to me and I think it may be in need of repair, a disconnector maybe? Has anyone had any experience with this and is it an expensive or complicated fix? kdub01 TFF Senior Staff Posts: 1698 (1/5/03 12:41:47 pm) Reply \| Edit \| Del Re: Winchester Model 12 Auto Trigger????? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sounds to me like a very worn sear, or reassembled in an incorrect manner. ThinK I'd pass on it unless the problem could be remedied economically. "Keep Off The Ridgeline" JayL Member Posts: 48 (1/5/03 9:59:05 pm) Reply \| Edit \| Del Re: Winchester Model 12 Auto Trigger????? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is a problem, as opposed to "normal." It is somewhat common on the model 12, but more often seen on the model 97. Generally it can be traced to a worn sear. Jay L "Move, Shoot, Communicate!" rounder999 Member Posts: 3 (1/7/03 1:49:57 pm) Reply \| Edit \| Del I kind of thought so -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks - it didn't seem right, even though it was a "gunsmith" who told me. Hadaway Member Posts: 19 (1/10/03 12:25:24 am) Reply \| Edit \| Del Winchester Model 12 Auto Trigger????? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It's not a worn sear. There is a stud on the side of the hammer that is engaged by the slide lock. The slide lock holds the hammer in the cocked position while the action is being cycled. More than likely, the stud on the hammer is worn. It's not like it's supposed to be, but it's only a problem if you hold the trigger to the rear while cycling the action. If it's priced where you can have the hammer replaced and still come out to the good, you may want to consider buying it. Thanks, Lee www.thearmsroom.com rounder999 Member Posts: 4 (1/13/03 5:21:11 pm) Reply \| Edit \| Del Thanks Lee -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I went ahead with the trade, an argentine police hi power I bought for 250.00 4 years ago and he kicked in 75.00. I don't think i'll get hurt as long as the repair isn't prhibitive. RobC in Missouri V.I.P. Member Posts: 155 (1/17/03 5:53:40 pm) Reply \| Edit \| Del Re: Thanks Lee -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I was under the impression that older Model 12s and some other shotguns would do this because they were made without disconnectors - at least that's what I read. I had an old Marlin shotgun that would do this... Some people considered this a "feaure" because you can hold the trigger back and fire off shots as fast as you can pump. RobC in Missouri AntiqueDr TFF Senior Staff Posts: 3209 (1/17/03 6:03:35 pm) Reply \| Edit \| Del ezSupporter Re: Thanks Lee -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That was the '97, not the Model 12. We Buy Guns! 1 - 100, Antique or Modern! www.apaxenterprises.com Master Dealer for Kimber, Wilson Combat and Dan Wesson -->

12-19-2010, 09:14 AM	#2
redwing carson Former Guest Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: western wyoming Posts: 734	Re: Winchester Model 12 Slam-Fires The Mdl 97 was made to shoot with the trigger down and pump fire the weapon. That is why they were the prefered shot gun of lawmen and outlaws around the turn of the 20th century. I just love the love the old 97s but watch that hammer it will eat your thumb. RC

12-19-2010, 06:34 PM	#3
mtnboomer Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Oklahoma by birth. America by the grace of God. Posts: 649	Re: Winchester Model 12 Slam-Fires Yep, the Winchester Model 97 and 12 don't have a trigger disconnect that will only reset by releasing the trigger. They were made that way on purpose as were most firearms up to that period. OTOH, the new reproduction 97's from China DO have a disconnect and will not fire by holding the trigger back and cycling the action. __________________ The cost of freedom, is eternal vigilance. The cost of bondage, is your life. - mtnboomer Support the Second Amendment - Join the NRA! > http://www.nra.org < Oklahoma State - #1 - GO POKES!

12-19-2010, 07:25 PM	#4
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: Winchester Model 12 Slam-Fires Yes, the condition described in the original post is normal for a Model 12 as well as for Models 1893 and 1897. Jim

12-19-2010, 08:15 PM	#5
Gabob Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: SW GA CSA Posts: 1,161	Re: Winchester Model 12 Slam-Fires The Model 12 s are notorious for breaking the firing pin. Being tapered it is still trapped in the bolt but does not retract when the action is worked. Sometimes it continues to protrude and hangs up the shell being lifted to load. It is possible that the uncontrolled broken part of the pin could also cause a slamfire __________________ NRA Endowment Member Keep Your Powder Dry

12-19-2010, 08:24 PM	#6
BillM V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Amity Orygun Posts: 380	Re: Winchester Model 12 Slam-Fires It's normal. Heck----it's a FEATURE! Winchester '97's and 1912's, Older Ithaca 37's, and IIRC the Stevens 520 shotguns, along with the 1890 Winchester 22's and probably others, do not have a disconnector. Hold the trigger down and pump---as soon as it goes into battery it will drop the hammer and fire.

12-22-2010, 11:28 PM	#7
bluesea112 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: West, TX Contributor Posts: 1,257	Re: Winchester Model 12 Slam-Fires I consider it a feature of the model 12 as well. When you are hunting dove on a tree line, and they fly across the corner at top speed, that slam fire feature is nice to have for a quick follow up shot. I have killed many dove with my model 12 that way.