Smith victory model? - The Firearms Forum

fleetwood1976 · 12-24-2009, 04:35 PM

I just got this as a christmas present. I needed a victory model for my collection. This one is different though. The serial number has not v or vs. Just 872225 then lanyard ring and then WB then ordinance bomb then a small capital P. Under the grips on the frame is I H F around the right side grip pin and on the left side 3 and H 8. nothing that makes any since to me. It is all numbers matching and there is an "s" in the corner under the barrel where that serial number is.

I have concluded that it is a 38/200 victory model within the serial number range of the M&P 1905 4th change. About '41 or '42 production. It has not been rechambered. Educate me, If i am missing something. I like it because it is original and has lots of character. Lock up is great and I wouldn't hesitate taking into battle again. Is anyone familiar with this Importer? Any info of where it was sent or how used would be awesome.

fleetwood1976 · 12-24-2009, 04:37 PM

more pics

fleetwood1976 · 12-24-2009, 04:41 PM

Yet more.

fleetwood1976 · 12-27-2009, 11:13 AM

Does anyone know if the Vam distribution from OHIO is an old importer? I have never heard of them.

Lotsdragon · 12-27-2009, 12:20 PM

I cant help you on the info but I too think that is one fine piece and wouldnt hesitate to shoot it, in battle or the firing range.

Alpo · 12-27-2009, 12:31 PM

I typed VAM DIST CO LLC into google, and came up with this.

Vam Distribution Company Inc.
1141-B Mechanicsburg Rd.
Wooster OH 44691
United States
(330) 262-0622
(330) 262-0623
Company description
Manufacturing: Small Arms

Jim K · 12-27-2009, 10:55 PM

Well, VAM didn't manufacture that gun; they are probably the importer that brought the gun back from some foreign country. You should be able to ask them with the info Alpo has provided. The other markings are standard S&W markings of the period; the letters inside the grips are S&W inspection marks.

A bit on the "Victory Model." That gun is indeed in .38 S&W, aka .38/200, and was made on the contract for Lend Lease for England. Technically, it was U.S. property, on the legal basis that the nation could not lend or lease what it did not own. WB was Col. Waldemar S. Broberg, head of the Hartford/Springfield Ordnance District from July 1, 1941 to June 16, 1942.

Your gun is sometimes called a "pre-Victory Model." The Victory model came about in a somewhat prosaic way. As you see by the serial number on your gun, S&W was fast approaching the million mark on those guns. But their numbering machine only went to six digits so they planned to add a prefix letter that would be stamped on all frames before they even went to be serial numbered. Supposedly, they planned to use "A", then someone suggested "V", "V for Victory" being a common slogan at the time. "V" it became, and the Victory Model was born. There is some discrepancy as to when the first Victory Model, V1, was made. One source says November 1941, another says April 1942, but regardless it followed 999999. Lend Lease, incidentally, took effect PRIOR to US entry into the war; the law was passed in March 1941.

The government never used the term "Victory Model", calling it the Military & Police Model (to S&W, it was the .38 Hand Ejector, Model 1905, Fourth Change), and S&W called it the same thing in official correspondence. The term "Victory Model" was used in S&W advertising, though. The .38 S&W for the British and the .38 Special for the U.S. were intermixed throughout production.

Jim

fleetwood1976 · 12-28-2009, 10:49 AM

Jim, That is what I was leaning toward too. I was a little off on the date. It probably is pre U.S. involvement in the war. I like the fact that it is totally original. not converted or enhanced in any way. I really like these wartime surplus pieces. They are like opening a history book.

12-24-2009, 04:35 PM	#1
fleetwood1976 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Southern Indiana Contributor Posts: 1,333	Smith victory model? I just got this as a christmas present. I needed a victory model for my collection. This one is different though. The serial number has not v or vs. Just 872225 then lanyard ring and then WB then ordinance bomb then a small capital P. Under the grips on the frame is I H F around the right side grip pin and on the left side 3 and H 8. nothing that makes any since to me. It is all numbers matching and there is an "s" in the corner under the barrel where that serial number is. I have concluded that it is a 38/200 victory model within the serial number range of the M&P 1905 4th change. About '41 or '42 production. It has not been rechambered. Educate me, If i am missing something. I like it because it is original and has lots of character. Lock up is great and I wouldn't hesitate taking into battle again. Is anyone familiar with this Importer? Any info of where it was sent or how used would be awesome. Attached Images -->

12-24-2009, 04:37 PM	#2
fleetwood1976 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Southern Indiana Contributor Posts: 1,333	Re: Smith victory model? more pics Attached Images

12-24-2009, 04:41 PM	#3
fleetwood1976 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Southern Indiana Contributor Posts: 1,333	Re: Smith victory model? Yet more. Attached Images Last edited by fleetwood1976; 12-24-2009 at 04:42 PM..

12-27-2009, 11:13 AM	#4
fleetwood1976 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Southern Indiana Contributor Posts: 1,333	Re: Smith victory model? Does anyone know if the Vam distribution from OHIO is an old importer? I have never heard of them.

12-27-2009, 12:20 PM	#5
Lotsdragon Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Potosi, Mo Posts: 813	Re: Smith victory model? I cant help you on the info but I too think that is one fine piece and wouldnt hesitate to shoot it, in battle or the firing range. __________________ "First comes smiles,then lies.Last is gunfire" Roland Deschain

12-27-2009, 12:31 PM	#6
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,662	Re: Smith victory model? I typed VAM DIST CO LLC into google, and came up with this. Vam Distribution Company Inc. 1141-B Mechanicsburg Rd. Wooster OH 44691 United States (330) 262-0622 (330) 262-0623 Company description Manufacturing: Small Arms __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

12-27-2009, 10:55 PM	#7
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: Smith victory model? Well, VAM didn't manufacture that gun; they are probably the importer that brought the gun back from some foreign country. You should be able to ask them with the info Alpo has provided. The other markings are standard S&W markings of the period; the letters inside the grips are S&W inspection marks. A bit on the "Victory Model." That gun is indeed in .38 S&W, aka .38/200, and was made on the contract for Lend Lease for England. Technically, it was U.S. property, on the legal basis that the nation could not lend or lease what it did not own. WB was Col. Waldemar S. Broberg, head of the Hartford/Springfield Ordnance District from July 1, 1941 to June 16, 1942. Your gun is sometimes called a "pre-Victory Model." The Victory model came about in a somewhat prosaic way. As you see by the serial number on your gun, S&W was fast approaching the million mark on those guns. But their numbering machine only went to six digits so they planned to add a prefix letter that would be stamped on all frames before they even went to be serial numbered. Supposedly, they planned to use "A", then someone suggested "V", "V for Victory" being a common slogan at the time. "V" it became, and the Victory Model was born. There is some discrepancy as to when the first Victory Model, V1, was made. One source says November 1941, another says April 1942, but regardless it followed 999999. Lend Lease, incidentally, took effect PRIOR to US entry into the war; the law was passed in March 1941. The government never used the term "Victory Model", calling it the Military & Police Model (to S&W, it was the .38 Hand Ejector, Model 1905, Fourth Change), and S&W called it the same thing in official correspondence. The term "Victory Model" was used in S&W advertising, though. The .38 S&W for the British and the .38 Special for the U.S. were intermixed throughout production. Jim

12-28-2009, 10:49 AM	#8
fleetwood1976 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Southern Indiana Contributor Posts: 1,333	Re: Smith victory model? Jim, That is what I was leaning toward too. I was a little off on the date. It probably is pre U.S. involvement in the war. I like the fact that it is totally original. not converted or enhanced in any way. I really like these wartime surplus pieces. They are like opening a history book.