Disturbing news confirms zombie theory.

[keepitlow]

Was watching the 1/15 show of 'OnQ' from WQED Pittsburgh. The discussion was around the Haiti tragedy and how desperate people do desperate things. One frumpy, middle aged lady who was a lawyer told the lady panelist across from her that "she would take her out to get some water for her kids' if it became necessary.

I thought to myself, WOW, if someone like her would resort to such tactics, how much more uncivil will the lower dregs of society be is such an emergency?

My own philosophy is this...If I have not prepared or my preparations become unusable...then too bad for me. I would not plan on killing others or robbing by force. Survivalists should understand that no ones head is bullet proof and we all have to go outside some time. I would accept that is how things are and try to 'pass on' in peace.

[graehaven]

I hope you never have to test your theory. I hope none of us do.

[ponycar17]

I generally feel that you're right about preparation and it being one's own fault for poor preparation. I don't know how I would react if I had to watch my wife or child starve. I hope I don't have to experience anything like that...

Originally Posted by keepitlow

Was watching the 1/15 show of 'OnQ' from WQED Pittsburgh. The discussion was around the Haiti tragedy and how desperate people do desperate things. One frumpy, middle aged lady who was a lawyer told the lady panelist across from her that "she would take her out to get some water for her kids' if it became necessary.

I thought to myself, WOW, if someone like her would resort to such tactics, how much more uncivil will the lower dregs of society be is such an emergency?....

With that said, I don't think we have to worry about anything too much. You seemed to imply that this lady is of an upper crust of society while simultaneously stating that she is a lawyer. I believe that's an error in judgement as some (and maybe most) lawyers are the lower dregs of society. The lowest dregs of society are lawyers who hold public office.

User, you're still alright even if you are a lawyer.

[ampaterry]

Lots of people will have that attitude, and NOT the ones that have prepared in advance.

Everyone can add LOW COST staples to your store so you CAN give to those that are in dire need -
We keep bags of rice and dried beans in the freezer strictly to hand out to anyone who is in GENUINE need when the fecal material interfaces with the rotary ventilation device.

And we are armed for those that are not satisfied with that -

[keepitlow]

Good replies. I agree.

'Survivalists should understand that no ones head is bullet proof and we all have to go outside some time. "

The above quote came from a thread I participated in at another forum on peak oil A member said he did not have tons of ammo stockpiled - maybe a thousand rounds. But that amount would allow him to 'get more,' implying he would get the supplies by force or killing.

If society would decomposes to that threat level where as soon as one steps outside one would be shot, robbed, raped or even cannibalized. The burning question would be, if such a world is even worth living in?

In Richard Heinberg's book 'Power-Down' he contrasts the survivalist mentality with that of the preservationist.

The wiki on this topic:

"A survivalist is a person who anticipates and prepares for a future disruption in local, regional or worldwide social or political order."

"Preservationism...as a term distinguishing between survivalist groups who wish merely to survive a collapse of civilization, and communities who wish to preserve as much of human culture as is possible in the event of collapse."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivalist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preservationist

Mr. Heinberg talked about a gene bank founded by Nikolai Vavilov in Russia and the dedicated preservationists that guarded the seed and gene pool. He went on to say how 9 of the scientists and workers starved to death because they refused to eat the seeds and tubers in the gene bank.

Now, I don't know if a few seeds or tubers would have made much difference in their surviving. But I can say a survivalist would have eaten the first one to die. While their efforts were most admirable, we can say their life was not an enviable one for us to emulate. And in the end they failed miserably at self preservation and survival.

Mr. Heinberg brings up a good point though, balancing the two areas of survival with preservation. For we may well survive, but if we do not preserve a semblance of a somewhat livable world to survive in, we may not wish to survive in what remains.

There is a famous saying: "First you get rich...then you get holy."

This applies especially to our topic at hand. Our first instinct is to survive. The foundation of our survivalist attitude is grounded in mental preparedness, knowing we have the tools and skill to survive. Then, once we have a semblance of peace, knowing we can survive with our skill level and necessities of survival, we can work on community and preservation.

This is how it has always been with a drowning man...we save ourselves first and others second. And if we balk at natures way...both men drown. It is part of natural law as well and is imbedded in our instinct.

[keepitlow]

Originally Posted by ampaterry

Lots of people will have that attitude, and NOT the ones that have prepared in advance.

Everyone can add LOW COST staples to your store so you CAN give to those that are in dire need -
We keep bags of rice and dried beans in the freezer strictly to hand out to anyone who is in GENUINE need when the fecal material interfaces with the rotary ventilation device.

And we are armed for those that are not satisfied with that -

If any of you have little space for gardening, you need to put more effort in your pantry and eating from there.

Check out:

The can opener gourmet
by Karr, Laura

Pantry Cooking : quick and easy food storage recipes
by Robins, Laura

And you supplement your pantry with your garden the best you can. You can also forage for wild foods and animals if available.

If you don't know how to cook and bake bread, make cheese, soap, etc., then better start NOW!

Start keeping a daily log of your usage and extrapolate what a years supply of that item would look like. Then go from there to lay in some proper supplies.

I inventory my staples to find their average life. For instance. One bottle of 12 oz shampoo lasts me 64 showers One bar of ivory soap lasts for 6 showers before the bar breaks in half. One box of 55 yard floss lasts me 62 times. So it is easy to extrapolate a years supply of these products to see what it looks like. An in some cases I may have many, many years supple of certain products.

And to take it a step further. Waxed floss can be rinsed reused 2 or 3 times, the soap scraps boiled down and recast into more soap, and old fashioned handkerchiefs substituted for Kleenex. So many areas can be extended if need be.

These staples that cannot be made easily at home are areas that I concentrate on to bulk up on as long as they do not deteriorate ins storage much. And whether they deteriorate or not I rotate stock.

Even fishhooks, 22 LR ammo, sewing needles, nails...these cannot be made easily at home. So start taking inventory of what you need to lay in.

But hoarding food is not the same as being able to produce food. Growing food is essential to living in a post carbon world. So I would suggest anyone interested in survival seriously learn to grow and raise their own food as well as be master foragers if your local is conducive for foraging.

[ponycar17]

Since you mentioned Peak Oil theory, check out Thomas Gold's book 'Deep Hot Biosphere'. I believe peak oil theory to be a scare tactic by the left and by big oil to justify Marxist environmentalism by the left and price increases by the oil companies.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...A2PPC5NGTX56J0

[Artemus]

I have seen mini riots started because a store did not have enough Cabbage Patch Dolls many Christmas's ago.I can't even imagine what would happen here if we experienced an earthquake like the one in Haiti.

[AL MOUNT]

Originally Posted by Artemus

I have seen mini riots started because a store did not have enough Cabbage Patch Dolls many Christmas's ago.
I can't even imagine what would happen here if we experienced an earthquake like the one in Haiti.

Laughed my arse off.......

You too... understand human nature...

[Hardballer]

I've got what I've got. I don't give a rip about preserving anything but my and my families lives. Those who are in need and do not pose a threat are welcome to join and "work". Find food, scavenge, hunt, protect etc. As for the liberal arts, Oh Well. . .

They can dig it up like we did our past and pontificate on how things were in the 21st Century. If in fact there are any of us left to dig.

My wife is an artist and musician and she holds the same view. These accouterments are just things. When everything is sorted out, maybe we can strum a guitar by a campfire or hearth.

200 years ago, it was cold as H-E-double hockey sticks all winter long. They still saddled their horses and rode and cared for cattle etc. They were cold every minute and in the summer, they were hot all summer long. If you saw your 45th birthday, you were very lucky.

I do not pretend to have any illusions about the kindness of my fellow man in times of dire stress. I know how I will behave but do not know how you will behave so until you are a know quantity, I will act accordingly.

For a good example, just check out what used to be known as Detroit. Anybody want to take a stroll down main street Detroit.

[Terry_P]

Haiti is a country that had noting to begin with. The government was and has been corrupt for ever. They lived day to day and are now incapable of recovering for such a disaster. The problem with aid is it won't reach those that need it but will be allocated by a corrupt government for their further enrichment.

In the US we have seen what happens with Katrina. Where people lived off the government dole they sat on their butts and waited for someone to take care of them. In other parts of the country where people are used to taking care of themselves they got out of the way, came back and cleaned up the mess, rebuilt and got on with their lives.

[mrkirker]

O'Zomba?