Gun show hypocrisy at it's finest!!!!

[Redhand]

I just attended a small local show that was anything but a gunshow. At the ticket booth there was a printer designed sign that said all sales or trades of firearms had to occur in the show. If you were to sale offer for sale or trade outside the show you could be charged with trespassing. Now this is a show that is held in a publicly funded civic center. This sign set my whole mood for the show. I tried reasoning with myself that it was some asine rule of the civic center or possibly the promoter of the show, but it just didn't wash. It is absolutly my last show. I have a sneaking suspicion that the dealers have called for this restriction so they wouldn't miss out on any carry-ins. And a big question is if the outside of the civic center is restricted, What happens if you are carrying your stuff in from your car and someone ask you about a particular piece or vice versa? You are on public property that has no signs restricting firearms on the premises. In MHO its just another chip off the gunshow business by the anti private sales by individuals at shows. At this particular show there were more folks selling accessories and other junk than lincensed FFL's selling their wares. It would make a strong statement for the gunshow loophole crowd because they could state as a fact there were more unlincensed individuals selling at this show than dealers. Give those bastiges an inch and they will take a mile. Some clown who didn't represent himself as one of the promoters or an employee threatened my son with arrest because he and his wife were setting outside the center trying to decide whether to leave or go back in the show. The gunshow business just lost 3+ ticket sales forever. Most dealers I've talked to won't express a strong sentiment concerning the 2nd amendment, they say it's only business and parttime at that and they wouldn't miss it if it shut down tomorrow.Tomorrow is just hrs. away as I type this post. The civic center has lost future tickets sales for any of their other events. Thanks for letting me rant.

[questor]

Your profile doesn't state what state/country you are from, where?

Did you check the local laws?


OUT

[Popeye]

For your information.



Gun show owner, police at odds over recommendations


http://www.statesman.com/news/local/...ns-186641.html

Show owner says police advice heavy-handed.

By Tony Plohetski
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Published: 9:26 p.m. Tuesday, Jan. 19, 2010


An Austin police effort to curtail the illegal sales of firearms at a weekend gun show sparked an angry response from the event's organizer and raised concerns about whether the department overstepped its authority.

Several police recommendations about the operation of the show were intended to curtail crime there and should not have been viewed as requirements, authorities said Tuesday.

But the show organizer said he thought that law enforcement officials were instructing him to adopt rules that violated state and federal law, including a requirement that only licensed gun dealers be allowed to sell firearms. He said he begrudgingly enforced the recommendations.

The dispute, which began late last week, has since sparked a controversy that is playing out on Web sites and radio talk shows.

Darwin Boedeker, owner of Texas Gun Shows, said he is collecting petitions from people who support gun shows without such requirements and will present them to the Texas attorney general's office.

"All they are doing is keeping the honest man from being able to do what is afforded to him by the Constitution," Boedeker said. "We have a right to buy and sell firearms as citizens of America, as legal, law-abiding citizens. That right is being infringed on us."

According to state and federal law, the private sale of guns is not illegal unless the seller knows the buyer is prohibited from purchasing a weapon, which includes being a convicted felon or an undocumented immigrant.

Gun dealers must have a license.

Austin police said that last year, while assisting federal agents in combating the sale of guns to undocumented immigrants, they recorded a number of illegal transactions. The repeated offenses at the site — a former Sam's Club location on North Lamar Boulevard — prompted police to refer the location to the department's nuisance abatement unit, which works with owners to reduce the number of crimes on their properties.

Police officials said they met last week with representatives from H-E-B, which handles the lease of the property, and with Boedeker, during which they outlined recommendations for reducing crime at the site.

The suggestions included permitting only licensed gun dealers to sell firearms, providing private security to prevent parking lot gun sales and defining a process for people other than licensed dealers who want to sell a gun at the show.

"We merely gave suggestions to reduce the amount of criminal violations that were occurring at this property," Austin police spokesman Cpl. Scott Perry said.

Boedeker said H-E-B representatives told him to follow the recommendations during the two-day show, which featured about two dozen vendors Saturday and Sunday.

"What they did was strong-arm H-E-B into making me do what I did," he said. "The problem is that it is unconstitutional to say I can't sell my private firearm to another individual."

H-E-B spokeswoman Leslie Lockett said Tuesday that police told company officials Monday about a possible illegal gun sale during the weekend and have decided that gun shows should not be hosted at the site until the issue is resolved.

Boedeker said he will look for a new venue to host shows.

He said that in the past couple of days, he has received numerous calls from across the state and nation from people who want information about what happened.

"There are a lot of upset people who want to know the truth," he said.

[Redhand]

Sales by individuals have occured at this location for years without a problem. Most show attendee's will carry whatever they have into the show and pay the admission price. They carry their stuff around and I suppose they get tired of all the BS downgrading of their guns and somtimes go out of the show to get a breath of fresh air and retreat to consider all things considered. It's just a backdoor approach to curbing individual sales or having control over them. If they can get everyone in the door then it's Katy bar the door as far as the powers to be to control the whole activity. BS in the making.

[pinecone70]

I hate that they make us surrender our ammo when we're carrying. The gun show folks walk away with five gallon pails full of live ammo, usually the self defense varieties.

[Redhand]

Incrementalism is creeping into all the shows.

[Suicide*Ride]

Thanks for posting the story Popeye.

Boedeker said H-E-B representatives told him to follow the recommendations during the two-day show, which featured about two dozen vendors Saturday and Sunday.

"What they did was strong-arm H-E-B into making me do what I did," he said. "The problem is that it is unconstitutional to say I can't sell my private firearm to another individual."

I can't believe the show's promoter went along with this B.S.!! IMHO, this guy Boedeker needs to grow a pair!

SR

[Hells Toy Master]

Originally Posted by Redhand

I just attended a small local show that was anything but a gunshow. At the ticket booth there was a printer designed sign that said all sales or trades of firearms had to occur in the show. If you were to sale offer for sale or trade outside the show you could be charged with trespassing. Now this is a show that is held in a publicly funded civic center. This sign set my whole mood for the show. I tried reasoning with myself that it was some asine rule of the civic center or possibly the promoter of the show, but it just didn't wash. It is absolutly my last show. I have a sneaking suspicion that the dealers have called for this restriction so they wouldn't miss out on any carry-ins. And a big question is if the outside of the civic center is restricted, What happens if you are carrying your stuff in from your car and someone ask you about a particular piece or vice versa? You are on public property that has no signs restricting firearms on the premises. In MHO its just another chip off the gunshow business by the anti private sales by individuals at shows. At this particular show there were more folks selling accessories and other junk than lincensed FFL's selling their wares. It would make a strong statement for the gunshow loophole crowd because they could state as a fact there were more unlincensed individuals selling at this show than dealers. Give those bastiges an inch and they will take a mile. Some clown who didn't represent himself as one of the promoters or an employee threatened my son with arrest because he and his wife were setting outside the center trying to decide whether to leave or go back in the show. The gunshow business just lost 3+ ticket sales forever. Most dealers I've talked to won't express a strong sentiment concerning the 2nd amendment, they say it's only business and parttime at that and they wouldn't miss it if it shut down tomorrow.Tomorrow is just hrs. away as I type this post. The civic center has lost future tickets sales for any of their other events. Thanks for letting me rant.

Its the same here in Washington state.

The Washington Arms collectors dose not allow fire arms transactions outside the show... you can do it inside but not outside. If your caught they will throw you out and ban you from coming back.

Why?

Its not because "their greedy" or their giving in... its because they want to protect their membership and the shows themselves.

At my local shows the ATF have been outside in a nondescript van, and every now and then the newsletter will report on a arrest that took place about a straw man purchase.

[Redhand]

The BATF had a table set up at this show for recruitment. A straw purchase can happen inside as well as outside but is less likly since someone selling individual to individual does not require the paperwork that a dealer to individual requires. If gun show promotions is a business they had better get a set before they lose their customer base. I personally would like to see a show where it was only a swap meet between individuals and dealers who were selling only used firearms and firearms parts. But until that happens I won't be going to anymore. Gun show promoters should give and take some to protect their memberships in whatever their org is but tthe customers belong to the NRA,GOA,VCDL and other 2nd amendment groups to protect their membership in the gun owning community. So if an individual to individual sale occurs inside the show the promoter is assuming some liability for that sale if it is their requirement that those sales take place under the pervue of that show? Why don't the promoters just restrict all individual sales at shows afterall it appears that their only interest is getting their table money from the dealers and their admission fees from the customers? What happens when the BATF decides to pull the FFL's of all those dealers who only sell at shows? There needs to be a strong voice raised in these matters before they are incrementally stripped away.

[Trouble 45-70]

Haven't seen that here in NE Ar. yet. Attending shows from Hardy to Mountain Home, Batesville and Mountain View, Ar.

[Nolaphoto1]

I've only been to one gun show in my life and doubt I'd ever visit another. One reason is exactly because of similar vendors. They had more crap pertaining to "survivalist" than to firearms enthusiasts. The other reason is because the most troubling sight was a young mother with a baby over one shoulder and an AR-15 on the other. I consider myself a responsible person and believe highly in the concept that children learn through "modeling" or watching others. I can't stand seeing a young parent buy alcohol in front of a child. When shooting with my 9 year old nephew, we only use bullseye targets. I don't want him to associate a firearm with shooting someone or even the likeness of a person. Hell I can't tell you the last time I bought a silhouette target. While I believe the 2nd amendment is a right, I don't think we as a group need to be giving the leftist any more reasons to trample on that constitutional right. Personally, I wouldn't miss gun shows if they disappeared forever. Besides, I want to be able to return an item should it not function properly, therefore I make my purchases at reputable shops.

[Trouble 45-70]

Originally Posted by Nolaphoto1

I've only been to one gun show in my life and doubt I'd ever visit another. One reason is exactly because of similar vendors. They had more crap pertaining to "survivalist" than to firearms enthusiasts. The other reason is because the most troubling sight was a young mother with a baby over one shoulder and an AR-15 on the other. I consider myself a responsible person and believe highly in the concept that children learn through "modeling" or watching others. I can't stand seeing a young parent buy alcohol in front of a child. When shooting with my 9 year old nephew, we only use bullseye targets. I don't want him to associate a firearm with shooting someone or even the likeness of a person. Hell I can't tell you the last time I bought a silhouette target. While I believe the 2nd amendment is a right, I don't think we as a group need to be giving the leftist any more reasons to trample on that constitutional right. Personally, I wouldn't miss gun shows if they disappeared forever. Besides, I want to be able to return an item should it not function properly, therefore I make my purchases at reputable shops.

You would have a problem with me. Went to NRA convention in N.O. about 1970. Was visiting with a Remington salesman and we were having a great conversation, long forgotten. My #1 son was siting in his stroller while we talked and when I looked down he was gnawing on the front sight of a .22 rifle the rep. was holding (a nylon 66 I think but don't hold me too it) to help with his teething. So at a very young age he cut his teeth on a rifle. He is now a Msgt. in the USAF and a good shot. Unfortunately, he married a woman who was a marksmanship instructor in the USAF. She is even a better marksman than he is. She often ends arguments with, "but I'm a better shot than your are". You should see his face.

[CampingJosh]

Originally Posted by Nolaphoto1

I've only been to one gun show in my life and doubt I'd ever visit another. One reason is exactly because of similar vendors. They had more crap pertaining to "survivalist" than to firearms enthusiasts. The other reason is because the most troubling sight was a young mother with a baby over one shoulder and an AR-15 on the other. I consider myself a responsible person and believe highly in the concept that children learn through "modeling" or watching others. I can't stand seeing a young parent buy alcohol in front of a child. When shooting with my 9 year old nephew, we only use bullseye targets. I don't want him to associate a firearm with shooting someone or even the likeness of a person. Hell I can't tell you the last time I bought a silhouette target. While I believe the 2nd amendment is a right, I don't think we as a group need to be giving the leftist any more reasons to trample on that constitutional right. Personally, I wouldn't miss gun shows if they disappeared forever. Besides, I want to be able to return an item should it not function properly, therefore I make my purchases at reputable shops.

Children certainly learn from what they see others doing. When they see adults acting responsibly, they learn responsibility. When they see adults acting irresponsibly, they learn that.

Many people handle firearms responsibly wherever they go. This doesn't go away just because they went to a gun show. Many people drink alcohol responsibly. It does not bother me the first bit that they allow their children to see them purchase firearms or alcohol.

Drinking is not inherently irresponsible. Gun shows are not inherently irresponsible. I have to disagree with your entire sentiment.

[CampingJosh]

I was at a gun show just today, and they required that all deals be made inside. They didn't require everything to go through an FFL holder, but they wanted it all to be in the building.
This seems fair to me. The promoters rent the venue and pay for advertising. They ought to be able to charge everyone who wants to do business there. If people set up in the parking lot, maybe 15 or 20 people don't pay the entrance fee, which is $75 to $100 for the promoters (or more). Maybe 2 or 3 people don't pay for tables, which is another $100.

You may feel that your rights are being violated, but they are not. You do not have the right to do business at a venue that someone else is renting. If that makes you mad, ask yourself this: Are you allowed to set up a little shop in the parking lot of Walmart? No way.

[Hardballer]

Originally Posted by CampingJosh

I was at a gun show just today, and they required that all deals be made inside. They didn't require everything to go through an FFL holder, but they wanted it all to be in the building.
This seems fair to me. The promoters rent the venue and pay for advertising. They ought to be able to charge everyone who wants to do business there. If people set up in the parking lot, maybe 15 or 20 people don't pay the entrance fee, which is $75 to $100 for the promoters (or more). Maybe 2 or 3 people don't pay for tables, which is another $100.

You may feel that your rights are being violated, but they are not. You do not have the right to do business at a venue that someone else is renting. If that makes you mad, ask yourself this: Are you allowed to set up a little shop in the parking lot of Walmart? No way.

Exactly right.

Originally Posted by pinecone70

I hate that they make us surrender our ammo when we're carrying. The gun show folks walk away with five gallon pails full of live ammo, usually the self defense varieties.

The part where they made you empty your ammo, that would be a deal breaker for me. I would exit and never return. Ever. Put up with this stuff at a gun show and it just gets worse and worse. I vote with my dollars. I purchase online, through the shoppers, local BBs local gun shops etc. ad nauseum.

The minute savings; if any at all, available at a gun show does not move me. I have all the worthless junk I need and don't have any use for Nazi Brown Shirt daggers or WWI artillery shell art. Can't use any more key-chains, ashtrays or Lorcin or Jenning's 9mm's. All stocked up on 303 British ammo too.

[pinecone70]

I can see them checking and having people remove mags before entering the shows, but confiscating ammo is stealing.

[Redhand]

So Camping Josh what I ascertain from your statement is that I can't have an individual to individual transaction within the rented venue although the show is advertized as a buy,sell and trade show? Most of the people I observe making transactions outside the public facility are folks walking into the building to go into the show. Someone in the parking lot see's another carrying in an interesting piece and you ask about whats being sold and get first crack at it is wrong. The others are waiting in line to pay their admission and the same thing happens, is that wrong? How about paying your admission walking thru the show and having a number of dealers try to seriously low-ball you so you go out side to set down and consider the information or dis-information you've been hit with,Is that wrong? And someone just happens to make you an offer outside that is much more realistic and closer to what you expect, Is that wrong? I think when a promoter rents a venue he/she doesn't rent the whole facility including the parking lot, here I maybe wrong but this is a civic center,publicly funded. I personally have no problems carry a for sale item into the show,only to be condesended to and berated by alot of the dealers in their attempt to low-ball me. I would have stopped going to gun shows long ago if it were not for the walk-ins. I remember one instance when I was going into a show seeing a little old lady carrying a pristine Colt 1911. I ask her what she wanted for it, at which she replied I won't sell it until I talk to the dealers and find out what its worth. I offered her $2000. for it on the spot without checking to see if it was all original. I saw her later come out of the show sans pistol. It her me to think some dealer got it for little of nothing, and here I'm assuming but from firsthand experience I know how things work. The dealers want the walk-ins too how else would they have anything worthwhile to sell. They will never see another of mine.

[millwright]

Remember ONE thing folks !!!

All of this "gun show harrassment" succeeds.....If you don't go !! Sales/exchange of firearms is a "secondary objective" to the gun haters/baners, aka "freedom haters".....Destruction of the culture and information exchange is the "primary objective".... >MW

[45Auto]

I went to a small military collector's show in Mid-Michigan and was informed that no guns were permitted at all! Unbelievable, I refused to ever attend another one of the promotor's shows 'till these silly rules are changed.

[Redhand]

Millright, what you say has some merit, but if people keep going and abiding by their nuiances, those arses you refer to see our compliance as a win for them. They could have had a field day at the show I mentioned by counting the number of individuals inside the show selling their guns to the highest offer compared to the FFL dealers present. And to use this opportunity to address an earlier response from a dealer or promoter who mentioned that they had to do certain things to keep their membership in an association of dealers, I would say that any org. that dictates the business practices rather than its principals is nothing more than a protectionist union. I think a little devide and conquer tactic's are being incrementally applied in these situations. I think we all need to get on the same page or throw the baby out with the wash.

[cakes]

Originally Posted by pinecone70

I can see them checking and having people remove mags before entering the shows, but confiscating ammo is stealing.

It sounds like you GAVE it to them. That's not stealing. I don't understand why you wouldn't leave the ammo in the car once you found out that you could not bring it inside.

[pinecone70]

Originally Posted by cakes

It sounds like you GAVE it to them. That's not stealing. I don't understand why you wouldn't leave the ammo in the car once you found out that you could not bring it inside.

I have never carried into a gun show. I only got my permit last September, and the only show I attended, I reluctantly left the gun in the car because I knew they'd take my ammo.

[Redhand]

The ammo deal is asinine because anyone wanting to be careless,reckless or mean can walk into a show with an unloaded firearm cut off the twist tie, buy some ammo reload and replace the twist tie just in case one had any other intentions. I leave my loaded carry gun in my car. If my car is broken into and my firearm is used illegally then I would hold the gun show promoter liable since they apparently have extended their venue to include the paking area.

[pinecone70]

Originally Posted by Redhand

The ammo deal is asinine because anyone wanting to be careless,reckless or mean can walk into a show with an unloaded firearm cut off the twist tie, buy some ammo reload and replace the twist tie just in case one had any other intentions. I leave my loaded carry gun in my car. If my car is broken into and my firearm is used illegally then I would hold the gun show promoter liable since they apparently have extended their venue to include the paking area.

Exactly. I couldn't enjoy the show (and I drove quite a ways to get there) because I was concerned about my car being broken into. I hate to go unarmed too.

[Hardballer]

Let them know how you feel the only way they understand. Don't spend your money with them until they discontinue harassing honest, law abiding citizens. Watch out for the "sensible rules" caveat as well. There are no sensible rules that disarm an honest citizen.