Cylinder troubles - The Firearms Forum

J.levi · 02-12-2010, 06:27 PM

First off, if this was covered in a different thread and I missed it, I apologize.

I have an 1851 Navy Colt revolver. The cylinder spins sometimes, other times it doesnt. Im getting a new hand spring and know that a streched body might be a problem since it is brass.

The thing that leaves me thinking is that there are small groves worn next to the large ones on the cylinder. Is this a problem or normal wear and tear?

herb41 · 02-13-2010, 12:05 PM

Ain't blachpowder great! I'm looking for comments/experience with Traditions A1309 Loadingstand that is used to load ball into cylinder. Boy, Do I have a tale of a bad experience. Herb

J.levi · 02-16-2010, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by herb41

Ain't blachpowder great! I'm looking for comments/experience with Traditions A1309 Loadingstand that is used to load ball into cylinder. Boy, Do I have a tale of a bad experience. Herb

What happened?

armedandsafe · 02-16-2010, 08:42 PM

Brass frames rarely stretch, unless you are shooting a lot of full-bang loads. IF your load is in the medium range, you shouldn't have frame stretching problems over the reasonable life of the pistol.

There are many possible causes for a hanging cylinder. Without an examination, it is hard to day. A common cause if the hand not returning to rest because of gunk build-up in the frame slot. A good smith should be able to diagnose the problem for little or no cost. Otherwise, completely strip the gun and clean the frame and parts thoroughly.

The small grooves on the cylinder are signs that the stop is dragging. Either it is extending too soon or is not retracting fully. It is not at all uncommon.

Pops

J.levi · 02-16-2010, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by armedandsafe

Brass frames rarely stretch, unless you are shooting a lot of full-bang loads. IF your load is in the medium range, you shouldn't have frame stretching problems over the reasonable life of the pistol.

There are many possible causes for a hanging cylinder. Without an examination, it is hard to day. A common cause if the hand not returning to rest because of gunk build-up in the frame slot. A good smith should be able to diagnose the problem for little or no cost. Otherwise, completely strip the gun and clean the frame and parts thoroughly.

The small grooves on the cylinder are signs that the stop is dragging. Either it is extending too soon or is not retracting fully. It is not at all uncommon.

Pops

Thanks for your help, can the dents in the cylinder cause it not to rotate fully to the next nipple?

armedandsafe · 02-18-2010, 10:35 PM

The dents themselves are not the problem, but an indication. If the stop is dragging heavily and the hand is worn, bent or chipped, then that combination can stop the cylinder from registering. Timing one of these pistols is not terribly difficult, just fussy-fussy. I've done it and would much rather pay a 'smith to let me watch him mutter at it.

Pops

J.levi · 02-19-2010, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by armedandsafe

The dents themselves are not the problem, but an indication. If the stop is dragging heavily and the hand is worn, bent or chipped, then that combination can stop the cylinder from registering. Timing one of these pistols is not terribly difficult, just fussy-fussy. I've done it and would much rather pay a 'smith to let me watch him mutter at it.

Pops

Thanks yove been a great help, how do you time the motion?

armedandsafe · 02-20-2010, 12:42 AM

Timing means that the hand moved the cylinder into the exact position to latch up aligned with the barrel and the stop retracts and extends the proper amount at the proper times. The final step in timing is to ensure the stop actually locks the cylinder into alignment with the barrel.

Stop retracts and releases the cylinder, dropping completely out of the cylinder notch.

Hand engages the cylinder rotation notch and pushes up, rotating the cylinder into the next position. No more and no less (within a few thousandths.)

Stop extends back up into the cylinder locking notch and locks the cylinder into alignment with the barrel.

The cylinder locking notches are not always cut square on the "leading" edge, so the stop can start coming up before the hand reaches the limit of rotation. On many revolvers, the stop comes into contact with the cylinder early and scratches a tiny groove around the cylinder. This is a sign of improper timing. It is not terribly important to the proper operation, usually. However, it is one of the fussy-fussy things one can fuss-fuss with, if such interests you.

Pops

scrat · 02-21-2010, 02:24 PM

1. If you have the proper air gap between the cylinder and barrel then the problem is with the hand.
2. If the cylinder and barrel are too tight then you have driven in the wedge too much. take off the barrel and try rotating the cylinder again. By pulling back the hammer.
3. Before anything anything anything anything.
4. Take off the back strap and make sure the main sping is on tight. Then make sure all screws are tight. A loose main spring can give you many problems.
5. Now if that does not solve the problem a new hand is in order. When you recieve the hand you will have to compare it to the old one and hone it down until it gets closer to the original one. keep trying it out. if its too long it will feel like its binding on you. if its too short (well you already know that)

Cylinder
a cylinder that has a small ring around it are caused by several problems. not going to get into that but going to get into the notch in the cylinder. What your describing is when the bolt and cylinder are either not aligned properly or the size of the two are not properly met. Take a micrometer and measure the size of your bolts thickness. Then measure the slots on your cylinder. if they are different then guess what. the bolt needs to be honed down a tad on thickness. now with the cylinder off. and bolt up all the way take a permanet marker and mark the part that is sticking up on the bolt. Then remove the bolt. the bolt should be able to go in that far in each cylinder notch if not then again need to modify slightly.

The following links will show you what i mean with pics.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...45#post4917845

02-12-2010, 06:27 PM	#1
J.levi Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 7	Cylinder troubles First off, if this was covered in a different thread and I missed it, I apologize. I have an 1851 Navy Colt revolver. The cylinder spins sometimes, other times it doesnt. Im getting a new hand spring and know that a streched body might be a problem since it is brass. The thing that leaves me thinking is that there are small groves worn next to the large ones on the cylinder. Is this a problem or normal wear and tear? -->

02-13-2010, 12:05 PM	#2
herb41 Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 6	Re: Cylinder troubles Ain't blachpowder great! I'm looking for comments/experience with Traditions A1309 Loadingstand that is used to load ball into cylinder. Boy, Do I have a tale of a bad experience. Herb

02-16-2010, 08:42 PM	#4
armedandsafe Former Guest Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Moses Lake, WA Posts: 10,344	Re: Cylinder troubles Brass frames rarely stretch, unless you are shooting a lot of full-bang loads. IF your load is in the medium range, you shouldn't have frame stretching problems over the reasonable life of the pistol. There are many possible causes for a hanging cylinder. Without an examination, it is hard to day. A common cause if the hand not returning to rest because of gunk build-up in the frame slot. A good smith should be able to diagnose the problem for little or no cost. Otherwise, completely strip the gun and clean the frame and parts thoroughly. The small grooves on the cylinder are signs that the stop is dragging. Either it is extending too soon or is not retracting fully. It is not at all uncommon. Pops

02-18-2010, 10:35 PM	#6
armedandsafe Former Guest Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Moses Lake, WA Posts: 10,344	Re: Cylinder troubles The dents themselves are not the problem, but an indication. If the stop is dragging heavily and the hand is worn, bent or chipped, then that combination can stop the cylinder from registering. Timing one of these pistols is not terribly difficult, just fussy-fussy. I've done it and would much rather pay a 'smith to let me watch him mutter at it. Pops

02-20-2010, 12:42 AM	#8
armedandsafe Former Guest Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Moses Lake, WA Posts: 10,344	Re: Cylinder troubles Timing means that the hand moved the cylinder into the exact position to latch up aligned with the barrel and the stop retracts and extends the proper amount at the proper times. The final step in timing is to ensure the stop actually locks the cylinder into alignment with the barrel. Stop retracts and releases the cylinder, dropping completely out of the cylinder notch. Hand engages the cylinder rotation notch and pushes up, rotating the cylinder into the next position. No more and no less (within a few thousandths.) Stop extends back up into the cylinder locking notch and locks the cylinder into alignment with the barrel. The cylinder locking notches are not always cut square on the "leading" edge, so the stop can start coming up before the hand reaches the limit of rotation. On many revolvers, the stop comes into contact with the cylinder early and scratches a tiny groove around the cylinder. This is a sign of improper timing. It is not terribly important to the proper operation, usually. However, it is one of the fussy-fussy things one can fuss-fuss with, if such interests you. Pops Last edited by armedandsafe; 02-20-2010 at 12:47 AM..

02-21-2010, 02:24 PM	#9
scrat V.I.P. Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 86	Re: Cylinder troubles 1. If you have the proper air gap between the cylinder and barrel then the problem is with the hand. 2. If the cylinder and barrel are too tight then you have driven in the wedge too much. take off the barrel and try rotating the cylinder again. By pulling back the hammer. 3. Before anything anything anything anything. 4. Take off the back strap and make sure the main sping is on tight. Then make sure all screws are tight. A loose main spring can give you many problems. 5. Now if that does not solve the problem a new hand is in order. When you recieve the hand you will have to compare it to the old one and hone it down until it gets closer to the original one. keep trying it out. if its too long it will feel like its binding on you. if its too short (well you already know that) Cylinder a cylinder that has a small ring around it are caused by several problems. not going to get into that but going to get into the notch in the cylinder. What your describing is when the bolt and cylinder are either not aligned properly or the size of the two are not properly met. Take a micrometer and measure the size of your bolts thickness. Then measure the slots on your cylinder. if they are different then guess what. the bolt needs to be honed down a tad on thickness. now with the cylinder off. and bolt up all the way take a permanet marker and mark the part that is sticking up on the bolt. Then remove the bolt. the bolt should be able to go in that far in each cylinder notch if not then again need to modify slightly. The following links will show you what i mean with pics. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...45#post4917845