CCW in WY without a permit

[NitroDave08]

Committee: allow concealed guns without permits

AP News - 2/17/2010

The House Judiciary Committee on Tuesday voted 6-2 to recommend
approval of House Bill 113 after a testimony by spokesmen from
pro-gun groups and other supporters.
Sponsor Rep. Elaine Quarberg, R-Thermopolis, says she believes
the state and federal constitutions spell out that Wyoming
residents have the right to carry concealed guns without needing
government permission.
The Judiciary Committee voted to specify that people who are
mentally incompetent or who have been committed to mental
institutions wouldn't be allowed to carry concealed guns.

I don't know about you, but a bunch of yahoos without any training
carrying is a scary thought to me. Only the gun shops here do
the call-in. ANYBODY can buy from a private party, thats how most
the felons here do it. WY is a "shall" issue state, all you need is
$79, training and a full background check. I want to know is how
the law enforcement is going to prove that someone is "legal" to
carry if this bill passes. The permit process will still be going on
to allow us Wyomingites carry in other states that honor our
CCW permits in their state.

[pinecone70]

Whoa....shocking.

[pickenup]

Originally Posted by NitroDave08

Sponsor Rep. Elaine Quarberg, R-Thermopolis, says she believes the state and federal constitutions spell out that Wyoming residents have the right to carry concealed guns without needing government permission.

WOO HOO......
At least "she" gets it.

to keep and bear arms
shall not be infringed.

[CampingJosh]

Originally Posted by NitroDave08

[I]I don't know about you, but a bunch of yahoos without any training carrying is a scary thought to me.

I'm sorry you think of gun owners as "a bunch of yahoos." I find that most adults are generally responsible. If you find differently, you may need to find new firneds.

Only the gun shops here do the call-in. ANYBODY can buy from a private party, thats how most the felons here do it. WY is a "shall" issue state, all you need is $79, training and a full background check. I want to know is how
the law enforcement is going to prove that someone is "legal" to carry if this bill passes. The permit process will still be going on to allow us Wyomingites carry in other states that honor our CCW permits in their state.

My Constitution doesn't say "the right of the people, but only those people who have paid the NRA for training that meets minimum state standards, to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

[Carne Frio]

" I don't know about you, but a bunch of yahoos without any training
carrying is a scary thought to me "

Well, it doesn't seem to have caused any problems here in Alaska, where
anyone who can legally own a firearm can also carry concealed, without
government permit. Are you saying that the people of Wyoming are less
able to do this ? I would not agree with that.

[carver]

I believe that the Constitution guarantees this right, for all of us. If a cop stops a BG with a gun, there will either be a gun fight, or not. If the BG thinks he can pull the wool over the cops eyes, then he will tell the officer that he is armed, when asked. After the cop runs a check and finds the BG is a convicted fellon, then guess what! Why do I carry in the first place? Because there are folks out there with guns that mean me harm, if they can. Convicted fellons, or not. This should be the law in every state.

[Terry_P]

How about a permit for free speech?

[NitroDave08]

[QUOTE=CampingJosh;600082]I'm sorry you think of gun owners as "a bunch of yahoos." I find that most adults are generally responsible. If you find differently, you may need to find new firneds.
QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Carne Frio

" I don't know about you, but a bunch of yahoos without any training
carrying is a scary thought to me "

Well, it doesn't seem to have caused any problems here in Alaska, where
anyone who can legally own a firearm can also carry concealed, without
government permit. Are you saying that the people of Wyoming are less
able to do this ? I would not agree with that.

Missed the point, not EVERY gun owner is a "yahoo". I have seen in FL when they went to open carry, there were people carrying for the "cool factor". Couple of them that I talked to when talking in detail about their experience was "I pull the trigger and it goes bang", thats a yahoo. I have talked to quite a few of now CCW people and they are all smart about the responsibility of owning and handling a weapon. It's the leaving the door open to the people that just go to gets one to wear one that gets me. Hell why dont we just let someone step in a cockpit and go fly a plane without any lessons. Generally speaking, most things in life we have some kind of training (offical or not) from school, parents and others. I have gone to plenty of gun shows and shops (weekly) and seen people that dont even know the first rule "treat every gun like it is loaded". I cant count how many times I have seen people point weapons at other patrons and myself. If they want to blow away their family in their own home because they dont know how to handle a weapon, so be it. But when they are cut loose, that scares me. firneds or not.

[pickenup]

Dave, I think it is YOU who is "missing the point"

Two states, Vermont and Alaska, believe in the United States Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Any (as you put it) "yahoo" CAN carry concealed in those states, with NO training, NO government "permission" NO permit. The streets are not running with blood. People are not getting shot over traffic disputes. Residents of those states don't seem to be too concerned over those "yahoos" being able to carry concealed. Why? Because it has not been a problem.

Now Wyoming wants to join those that believe in the 2nd Amendment, and it scares YOU.

Even if you want to ignore the United States Constitution, your very own state of Wyoming's Constitution states....

(quote)
97-1-024. Right to bear arms.

The right of citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the state shall not be denied.
(/quote)

It is SAD when a "supposed" gun person is SO EAGER to throw their countries, as well as their state's Constitution and Bill of Rights under the rug.

P.S.
Flying an airplane in not a Constitutionally guaranteed right!!!
Owning and BEARING ARMS.......IS.

[NitroDave08]

Originally Posted by pickenup

Dave, I think it is YOU who is "missing the point"

Two states, Vermont and Alaska, believe in the United States Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Any (as you put it) "yahoo" CAN carry concealed in those states, with NO training, NO government "permission" NO permit. The streets are not running with blood. People are not getting shot over traffic disputes. Residents of those states don't seem to be too concerned over those "yahoos" being able to carry concealed. Why? Because it has not been a problem.

Now Wyoming wants to join those that believe in the 2nd Amendment, and it scares YOU.

Even if you want to ignore the United States Constitution, your very own state of Wyoming's Constitution states....

(quote)
97-1-024. Right to bear arms.

The right of citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the state shall not be denied.
(/quote)

It is SAD when a "supposed" gun person is SO EAGER to throw their countries, as well as their state's Constitution and Bill of Rights under the rug.

P.S.
Flying an airplane in not a Constitutionally guaranteed right!!!
Owning and BEARING ARMS.......IS.

From the WY CCW Statute
http://legisweb.state.wy.us/statutes...tle6/T6CH8.htm

6-8-102. Use or possession of firearm by person convicted of certain felony offenses; penalties.

Any person who has previously pleaded guilty to or been convicted of committing or attempting to commit a violent felony or a felony under W.S. 6-5-204(b), and has not been pardoned and who uses or knowingly possesses any firearm is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than three (3) years, a fine of not more than five thousand dollars ($5,000.00), or both.

(b) The attorney general is authorized to issue permits to carry a concealed firearm to persons qualified as provided by this subsection. The attorney general shall promulgate rules necessary to carry out this section no later than October 1, 1994. Applications for a permit to carry a concealed firearm shall be made available and distributed by the division of criminal investigation and local law enforcement agencies. The permit shall be valid throughout the state for a period of five (5) years from the date of issuance. The permittee shall carry the permit, together with valid identification at all times when the permittee is carrying a concealed firearm and shall display both the permit and proper identification upon request of any peace officer. The attorney general through the division shall issue a permit to any person who:

(i) Is a resident of the United States and has been a resident of Wyoming for not less than six (6) months prior to filing the application. The Wyoming residency requirements of this paragraph do not apply to any person who holds a valid permit authorizing him to carry a concealed firearm authorized and issued by a governmental agency or entity in another state that recognizes Wyoming permits, is a valid statewide permit, and the state has laws similar to the provisions of this section, as determined by the attorney general, including a proper background check of the permit holder;

(ii) Is at least twenty-one (21) years of age;

(iii) Does not suffer from a physical infirmity which prevents the safe handling of a firearm;

(iv) Is not ineligible to possess a firearm pursuant to 18 U.S.C. section 922(g) or W.S. 6-8-102;

(v) Has not been committed to a state or federal facility for the abuse of a controlled substance or convicted of a violation of the Wyoming Controlled Substances Act of 1971, W.S. 35-7-1001 through 35-7-1057 or similar laws of any other state or the United States relating to controlled substances;

vi) Does not chronically or habitually use alcoholic liquor and malt beverages to the extent that his normal faculties are impaired. It shall be presumed that an applicant chronically and habitually uses alcoholic beverages to the extent that his normal faculties are impaired if the applicant has been involuntarily committed to any residential facility pursuant to the laws of this state or similar laws of any other state as a result of the use of alcohol;

(vii) Demonstrates familiarity with a firearm. A legible photocopy of a certificate of completion of any of the courses or classes or a notarized affidavit from the instructor, school, club, organization or group that conducted or taught the course or class attesting to the completion of the course or class by the applicant or a copy of any document which shows completion of the course or class or evidences participation of firearms competition, shall constitute evidence of qualification under this paragraph. Any one (1) of the following activities listed in this paragraph shall be sufficient to demonstrate familiarity with a firearm:

(A) Completion of any certified firearm safety or training course utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association or the Wyoming law enforcement academy;

(B) Completion of any law enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division of law enforcement or security enforcement;

(C) Experience with a firearm through participation in an organized handgun shooting competition or military service;

(D) Completion of any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a state certified or National Rifle Association certified firearms instructor;

(E) Be certified as proficient in firearms safety by any Wyoming law enforcement agency under procedures established by that agency; or

(F) Honorable retirement as a federal or state peace officer who has a minimum of ten (10) years of service.

viii) Is not currently adjudicated to be legally incompetent; and

ix) Has not been committed to a mental institution.

(c) The division may deny a permit if the applicant has been found guilty of or has pled nolo contendere to one (1) or more crimes of violence constituting a misdemeanor offense within the three (3) year period prior to the date on which the application is submitted or may revoke a permit if the permittee has been found guilty of or has pled nolo contendere to one (1) or more crimes of violence constituting a misdemeanor offense within the preceding three (3) years.


So basically you are telling me that you want Untrained people able to walk around unchecked? This is the only change that the new bill will change and is my biggest concern. The right to protect yourself is a RIGHT! But to do it responsibily is common sense. Can I carry now, yes, but I have to prove both the education and the skills to handle a weapon safely before I get a license and be amongst the geneal population. That is my what I wanted to convey as my biggest concern. A weapon that is capable of taking life needs to be in the hands of someone that is educated and able to prove they are safe to others. NOONE is infringing on the right to carry in WY now, wait only untrained, Felons, Drug abusers, Alcoholics, mentally incompetent and habital law breakers. If you look in the list of the accepted training, they are not anything that is not unreasonable. Heck a Hunters safety course is accepted. BUT with the new bill, the training is removed. Oh yeah and the $79 that the state gets for every CCW permit. The CCW is the easiest way to prove that I am not a felon, drug abuser, alcoholic, mentally incompetent, a habital law breaker and that I am TRAINED to SAFELY carry my weapon.

Your CO CCW Statute as many other, also have the same provisions, in one form or another. These are to protect the general population, of which this Yahoo is part of.

ANYONE can request to see my CCW permit and they can be assured that I am not a felon, drug abuser, alcoholic, mentally incompetent, a habital law breaker and that I am TRAINED to SAFELY carry my weapon.

Maybe I should have started the post off as WY wants people not trained on the proper education and have the skills to carry a weapon without any checks". I guess my Redneck shows through with the term "Yahoo" and I apoligize to anyone I offended.

I did not intend to start a constitutional right debate, but one of people that are not trained with a weapon that could be used to take my life or a member of my family able to walk around. Imagine someone thinking they are being a good semarion(sp) trying to stop a gas station hold up and your child or spouse gets killed because someone never has even fired a weapon and lets stray round fly around because they are not used to the lightness of a SA/DA trigger. Yes, this has happened in Omaha when I was stationed there, a 9 year old girl was killed as her father was gassing up.

All I bitch about is the no training requirement. The CCW training here consists of legal use (when can you fire), the general functions of firearms, and actual firing of YOUR weapon. Is this unreasonable?

[CampingJosh]

Originally Posted by NitroDave08

All I bitch about is the no training requirement. The CCW training here consists of legal use (when can you fire), the general functions of firearms, and actual firing of YOUR weapon. Is this unreasonable?

I think it is unreasonable. You don't have to prove competence to a government agency for any other Constitutionally guaranteed right. You don't have to prove that you're competent to run a house before you're protected from unreasonable searches and seizures. You don't have to turn in sample essays in order to have freedom of the press.

The right to keep and bear arms is a safeguard against oppression, both by criminals and by government. You surely wouldn't let an armed robber set standards for who is competent to defend himself from that robber, would you? Then why would you allow (even encourage) that by a government?

[pickenup]

Originally Posted by NitroDave08

I did not intend to start a constitutional right debate

But that is exactly what it boils down to.
Either one believes in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights that this country was founded on, or one does not.

It really IS as simple as that.

[NitroDave08]

Originally Posted by pickenup

But that is exactly what it boils down to.
Either one believes in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights that this country was founded on, or one does not.

It really IS as simple as that.

OK is it not my Right to be protected from people that dont have any idea how to handle a weapon?



Ok so Felons, alcholics, drug users, habitual offenders, mentally unstable arent citizens protected by the Constitution?
There are times when the right of the individual is infringed to protect the "We the People" not "You as an individual".
You have the right to freedom UNTIL it infringes on the rights of others. And there are SOME untrained people
that are just plain dangerous. Granted they are far and few beween, all it takes is one round from one person to take away a life,
I just hope it never happens to anyone here. I wonder how many "accidental" shootings/killings could have been prevented though
proper training. "I didnt know it was loaded", hmmm #1 rule, treat every weapon as if it was loaded.

The current CCW process works pretty damn good, people carrying have the training and the respect of owning a weapon.

I am not going to beat this dead horse anymore. The majority (the people) will prevail, as it should be.
The mods can throw this thread away, delete it whatever.

[pinecone70]

Originally Posted by NitroDave08

OK is it not my Right to be protected from people that dont have any idea how to handle a weapon?



Ok so Felons, alcholics, drug users, habitual offenders, mentally unstable arent citizens protected by the Constitution?
There are times when the right of the individual is infringed to protect the "We the People" not "You as an individual".
You have the right to freedom UNTIL it infringes on the rights of others. And there are SOME untrained people
that are just plain dangerous. Granted they are far and few beween, all it takes is one round from one person to take away a life,
I just hope it never happens to anyone here. I wonder how many "accidental" shootings/killings could have been prevented though
proper training. "I didnt know it was loaded", hmmm #1 rule, treat every weapon as if it was loaded.

The current CCW process works pretty damn good, people carrying have the training and the respect of owning a weapon.

I am not going to beat this dead horse anymore. The majority (the people) will prevail, as it should be.
The mods can throw this thread away, delete it whatever.

I can't speak for everyone else, but I suspect there are untold numbers of alcoholics out there carrying guns already, there is no rule against that, as well as drug dealers, habitual offenders, mentally ill people, perfectly normal sane, responsible citizens, anybody trained or untrained, you just don't know. Just because they didn't go through the 'legal channels' to acquire a license does not mean that they aren't just carrying anyway on a daily basis. Honestly, I thought it was kind of silly that I had to prove my firearms abilities to get a license. I've been handling firearms safely my whole life.

[pickenup]

Just for fun, and I didn't look, I just wanted the numbers.
I googled, "police accidentally shoots"
There were 2,240,000 hits.

Then "soldier accidentally shoots"
910,000 hits.

Sure, some of these are repeats, some have NOTHING to do with the topic at hand. The point is that people in positions that are WELL TRAINED can kill. Accidentally. It HAS/WILL happened. Should we outlaw cops, soldiers, etc. or take their guns away? After all, they may one day shoot someone YOU or I know.

You keep bringing up "Felons, alcholics, drug users, habitual offenders, mentally unstable" as if a LAW would make a difference whether they carry or not.

You do realize one of the definitions of criminal" is, that
THEY DO NOT OBEY LAWS.

What possible difference is a law prohibiting unlicensed citizens from carrying concealed, going to make to these kind of people???
Do you really think that when they make plans to go out and rape, rob, or murder someone, that they stop and think, "Oops, better not carry a gun, THAT is illegal?

After this post, I will "probably" not beat this dead horse any longer either.

Like I said,
"Either one believes in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights that this country was founded on, or one does not."
It is clear that you do not. You approve of this government "infringement" on our right to bear arms, because YOU feel it is "reasonable"

WHO are we to allow to be the judge on what is a "reasonable" infringement?

YOU?
(quote)
The current CCW process works pretty damn good
(/quote)

Nancy Pelosi, speaker of the house?
(quote)
If I had my way, sporting guns would be strictly regulated, the rest would be confiscated.
(/quote)

The Brady bunch?
one of their goals.....
(quote)
banning military-style assault weapons
(/quote)

Or maybe Dianne Feinstein?
(quote)
"If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an out-right ban, picking up every one of them... 'Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in,' I would have done it."
(/quote)

Just what level of "infringement" are YOU comfortable with?

One more quote....
(QUOTE)
They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security.
Benjamin Franklin
(/QUOTE)

[Eddie N]

I, also, would like to see this in all states. You folks have educated me some more. I grew up in a hunting family and was taught firearm safety by everybody I went shooting or hunting with. and with the criminals breaking the laws, why can we all not carry concealed as they do. I think we should get rid of all the stupid, restrictive laws!
However, I do believe that anybody who wants to own a firearm should know about them and safety, but that is just common sense.
BTW, my state is the next one south. Maybe...?

[Terry_P]

It is up to the individual firearms owner to know their weapon, how to safely carry, use and store it. Period. Writing a check for $300 to a state agency does nothing to insure training or profficency it only gives some government hack the right to deny us all our rights. I will be in Wyoming this summer and have no fears if this bill is passed that our lives will be in danger from a law abiding citizen with a firearm.

[Maximilian II]

My understanding after discussion with a friend who has a concealed carry permit is that GA requires a $25 fee and approval from the Sheriff to get the permit.
I'm planning to get one when I get around to it. Just because I like to shoot and sometimes transport firearms in my vehicle between shooting locations. It's one of those things that just seems prudent.
Plus, the way things are going I might decide some time I'd rather depend on a gun than my fists. Getting older these days. Hitting people hurts me more and them less than it used to.

[wpage]

Originally Posted by Terry_P

How about a permit for free speech?

I can think of a few folks that need to have this revoked...
Many in high places.

[old semperfi]

not real sure but i think they call it RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS i live in indiana and its never been an issue here to my knowledge.yes we have some who carry their north american arms on a belt buckel but they are rare....i think you are worried about nothing.... old semperfi

[Jeff Midguard]

As the Constitution reads, the only real requirement to keep and bear is that you become part of a "well regulated militia".

[johnlives4christ]

actually being part of a well regulated militia is not a requirement of the 2nd amendment.

"a well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

the first part "a well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state" is a statement. saying that without local militias the overseeing government is free to take over the state because there will be no organized resistance.

the second part "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" is the part that guarantees us the right to own, carry, and use firearms. this part is put into place so that way we cannot be disarmed, which is the first step of a tyrannical government take over.

people for the most part have forgotten the first part of the 2nd amendment, and have no desire, nor see any reason, for an organized militia.

back to the topic of the OP, this hasn't passed yet has it? was it shot down? whats the news?


i am a yahoo who carries a gun. i dont carry because i need to for self defense, i carry because i can. i open carry because i can. i do have a license to conceal, but i dont conceal because it's legal to open carry here.

i dont have any training of any type other then my own experience shooting on the farm and learning through tv and online what is considered safe. i also have common sense so that helps a lot.

people carrying guns without training, this probably isnt the best idea... but a worse idea is limiting who can carry, or in some way licensing them. once the ability to license is set in place, it can be used as an ability to deny. so if it was a case that you could not carry without training, then people would end up being denied for reasons other then irresponsible gun handling.

people should teach their kids about how to safely handle firearms, then you would have people that are "trained".

a lot of people see guns as this deadly thing that can kill, but it didnt used to be that. it used to be seen as a tool that was used for defending yourself, your country, and for hunting and fun. but now, because its popular to limit or ban things that are dangerous even gun owners are jumping in on the band wagon.

[TheDoctor]

It does say BEAR ARMS. It does not say CONCEAL ARMS. The definition of Bear that I found to be most relevant was, "to hold or carry (oneself, one's body, one's head, etc.): to bear oneself erectly. "
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Bear?&qsrc=
I'm not against the constitution, or the bill of rights. I am against twisting the meaning of words to fit our needs, though. There is no law saying you cannot carry a weapon in a non concealed manner. And if you'd like to get really technical with the Bill of rights it does say, "A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." Now, what is a well regulated Militia? It's a military organisation that has strict rules and obliges them. Who sets the rules is never specified.

[johnlives4christ]

i prefer to carry open. people deal with me accordingly...... respectfully and polite.

[berto64]

I believe that Arizona has passed a no permit concealed carry law too. It waz earlier this year I think. If Wyoming follows thru it would be the fourth state to allow this practice, thus following the tenants of the Second Amendment.