Where would you go in time of unrest?

[Bobitis]

Carver, the folks that survive are the ones that know how to.
Most of them won't make it 30 days, much less a year. They'll be ill equipped for the mission, and will have no training/experience. They will run for the forest thinking 'I'm safe now'. Most will be dead within 12 months.

If you think it got cold last winter when the power went out, you've got another thing coming in the mountains.

For those that have property and a well, stand by them. If you rely on any water supplied to you other than that, run away.

The strongest will survive, and I don't need a fortress for that. But I do need water.

If moving makes me a target, then you are as well. If you are hunting me, you then become the prey. No city slicker is gonna win that one.

If a bunch of thinkabees want to invade the lowlands and expect to survive by shooting up the place for food.. well.... the food will come to me.

Don't forget the water.

[lentz]

Originally Posted by carver

I might be completly wrong, but the way I see it is that if it comes down to survival of fittest, then there won't be any gasoline, propane, kersoene, or any other type of fuel available, including electricity, unless you take it from some one that has it. Not my bag. I can plant and grow what ever I need with the land I have available, and it will support my kids, and their get as well. I don't think hunting will be a way to supply yourself with food. First, that's what everyone else will be trying to do, and a moving target is easy to spot. Go off out in the woods to hunt meat, and you will most probably become the hunted. Stay put, raise some hogs, goats, cows, or what ever for your meat, and grow the rest. I know that some folks are buying gold, and silver to be able to have ability to purchase form neighbors, and such. Don't come around here with any of that stuff. I'll be wanting to swap for food, chickens, pigs, cows, goats, or what ever I might need. Gold, and silver won't do me any good at all. Stop, and think about what folks will need if there is no government to protect you. No 7-11's, or Wall Marts. I have shelter, avaible food, and water right here. What else do I need? It sure won't be gold, and silver, unless I want to melt it down, and cast me some bullets. Y'all think about this. The mountains sound like a good place to run to, but then again, that's where just about everyone else is going if they don't already have a safe haven. The folks that will make it in the mountains will be those that are already there, and have fortified their property. If you disagree, fire away! But if you really take the time to think about it, you will know that I am right on this one.

And the social security checks?Forget it.There will be no more of those either.

[jack404]

if SHTF really comes it will revert to Fudalism whereby the strongest will band into a group , probably under a leader and rule the area , people moving into that area will have to conform or pay or what ever , thats human nature , it happened in Europe after the collapse of the Romans it happened in Africa after the brits and frogs took off , its happened here with our weak as piss government with muslim drug gangs ruling small packets of some cities, its how things are

personally i think i'd make a great warlord , I know if given some small time ( a couple days at most) i could relocate my small workshop and start spitting out defensive items at a good clip , long way off any beaten track

round up some mates , and settle a area , keep it safe for us and ours

but thats only a if SHTF really comes , the powers that be will trade off bits of the place for a long time, as they are doing now , its not until something threatens the "establishment" and "big money" that i expect things to go the SHTF way

so i'm setting my kids and their kids up as i think it'll be a slow decline , and i'm now in a area that wont be too affected by the shenanigan's of the powers..

[wpage]

The more things change the fundamentals remain the same...
Plan for what appeals to you. If you like camping and roughing it. Head for the hills.
If your a homebody. Map out plans to turn your castle into a fort.

[jack404]

let me know if this is hijacking a thread ok ?

Is a house in the burbs a viable option ? , you'd have to steel coat the exterior and fill the dry wall air gap with sand or something to stop most rounds

when i was in Kosovo , i saw how many times folks had barricaded themselves in and how many times AK's took these folks out , straight through the walls of the modern places , while old stone built places lasted , single brick did not work either , in fact the US army did a study of the damage there ( i met the L,Col who was doing it ) he was amazed and we discussed this at length, the things some folks did that made a difference and the folks who left

most who left where not prepared even though many saw it coming for months

many who stayed where not prepared for Rifle ammo

those in high rises and apartment blocks where stormed methodically almost , a gang would form and take out the entire building one apartment at a time.

preparation is the key , co-operation in many cases saved many

5 guys out of 11 families held off bands of dozens for weeks with a few (5) hunting rifles but all had figured out what to do ..

but cities are no place to be when troubles start, food and water alone will dissappear fast where any concentration of people exist

and if your city is blockaded even simply , then it'd be hell on earth given the examples of Kosovo and Sarajevo and these are not backward places Sarajevo was the winter Olympics city not long before it went to hell

are suburban forts really viable ? I dont have a alternative for the age or not up to traveling for whatever reason , but staying unless very very well set up , in any urban environment is very hard to defend long term

[millwright]

I read the same mistakes here I've read elsewhere......."No man is an island"......describes it best. Call it the "Farnham's Freehold" syndrome..... [R. H. Heinlein]

In order to survive at any level above a stone-age primitive takes a hell of a lot of doing and knowledge ! Can you blacksmith ? Perform common dentistry tasks ? How's your chemistry ? (organic and inorganic ) How about medical/surgical/trauma care ? How much of an electrical engineer are you ? Know anything about radio theory ? Brewing ? Distilling ? Agronomy ? Animal husbandry ? And about ten thousand other skills and arts it takes to make a society worth living in - and for !!

All SHTF scenarios - here and elsewhere - operate from the fools' premise the cavalry will ride over the hill to save you if you manage to survive long enough.......In reality, to survive y'all will need a knowledge base of skills and training large enought to comprise a good sized town. You will need water/energy/food resources sufficient to support that population. And - most important of all - you will need a vast library of information - in real paper books - covering all the stuff you do and don't know, because you'll need to pass these skills on.......

Now all that remains is to find a defensible locality that will support a 5-6K population indefinitely in whatever climate exists/prevails. Oh ! I didn't mention the real "nut of the deal"......being able to find/convince/bond the 4-6K people into cohesive society !!

GFL !! >MW

[Bobitis]

Millwright, you raise some good points.

If it did hit the fan, NONE of us would be able to put together the comunity you speak of, other than organized religions. They will be busy battling each other. The same holds true to me yesterday, today, and tomorrow. I just want to be left alone.

More have died in the name of religion than any other cause.

I don't need most of the folks you mention. Fire will keep me warm and light my way. Animals will breed. Food will grow. It will take a LONG time for anarchy to go away, and a society to become established.

We overcame the stoneage. We fought a war against religious persecution.
It's all been done before, and if history repeats itself, we may have to do it again. The strongest will survive. It's the way of nature.

If you're looking for an instant commune, it ain't gonna happen.
If you're thinking 12 months from now it'll all be a bad dream, it ain't gonna happen.
On the slight chance you believe it'll all be skookum in 5 years, guess again.

Society as we know it took tens of thousands of years to evolve. To expect something different in this case is naive. We will be the building blocks for this evolution. It will take more time than we have in our measly lives, but we are a start.

[lentz]

That's how I see it Bobbits.
And how will people in a city defend their home against thousands of hungry people.All that ammo they have stored will blow when they're burned out.

[rentalguy1]

We've lived as "clans" for a few centuries in my neck of the woods. I'm pretty sure the only things that would change much around here are electricity and indoor plumbing, both of which have only been widely accepted here within the last 50 years or so.

[millwright]

Bobitis,
It all seems so simple......until you've worked a couple of decades from can to can't just getting by......There's a reason why pioneer families were so large, and Mormons had several wives, FTM.

And who's keeping watch when your head is under that cow milking ? Plan to have an armour-plated shield around you behind that mule/plow ? Food doesn't j's grow' !! Takes time to prepare and plant a seed bed, cultivate it and harvest and store it all the while protecting it 24/7.....speaking of which, how do you plan to store food - for yourself, family, the work animals you'll need and next season's crops ? BTW, have any experience handling mules/horses/oxen ?

All of this pre-supposes you won't get sick, suffer an infection, or get hurt/wounded, either. >MW

[Bobitis]

It is simple. We need to stop thinking of 'instant gratification'.
That would be surrender.

It takes time. I'm not looking to feed the needy. I'll feed my own.
Food does grow. Animals do breed. I don't need to be a farmer or a Dr of animal husbandry to make this viable. It already is.

We've been through it before. And we've survived.

[millwright]

I submit you ought to read the journals of the mountain men and early pioneers.....

But each generation has to 'larn' some hard lessons on their own.....

But if you're interested in someone else's perspective, read Jerry Pournell's "There Will Be War" series - particularly "Armageddon"...... >MW

[Artemus]

I would go to the phone to report all the people I was forced to shoot because they tried to harm my family.

[noslolo]

I had much better resources when I was younger and lived in Annapolis. My best friend's mother had a 38 foot sail boat that she had dumped 250K into so that she could sail around the world. They also had 35k in dehydrated food. I have since moved to the mountains of PA, where all of my wifes family is. They know how to live off of the land, but I still have a lot to learn. The resources to keep just my family of four fed and safe would be daunting for any extended time.

[navis128]

My family would expect me to go home and if I didn't, I think they'd come get me

We've been here since the beginning...we'll be here thru to the end

[Bobitis]

Originally Posted by navis128

My family would expect me to go home and if I didn't, I think they'd come get me

We've been here since the beginning...we'll be here thru to the end

Amen.

[Teejay9]

Down to the corner of Martin Luther King and Caesar Chavez. It's probably very safe downtown. TJ

[kingchip]

Originally Posted by lentz

I have read glocknut's piece on the new order,and got to thinking,what would the Nation be like if and when this came to pass.
I learned to recognize wild plants as a boy.I know where to take my family.
But how about the millions in N.Y.C.and other places,that will starve with a block of cheese on the table because they can't find the cheese slicer?

Note To Self: Add cheese slicer to BOB.

Originally Posted by navis128

My family would expect me to go home and if I didn't, I think they'd come get me

We've been here since the beginning...we'll be here thru to the end

My family was at Goliad and San Jacinto. We need to meet for a beer somewhere, sometime.

[navis128]

Somewhere...sometime...someday

[rentalguy1]

Originally Posted by kingchip

Note To Self: Add cheese slicer to BOB.

You won't need it where you're at. There is enough deer there to live a lifetime on. No need to even hunt them, best I remember, they just walk right up to you...

[Teejay9]

I envy you that are in the country. Living in the Burbs doesn't offer up a lot of targets (for food, that is). It would be shear terror. No law, no electricity, no hospitals. I'm not looking forward to that day. TJ

[michael t]

I moved where I am over 10 yrs ago for that reason . We are now known and part of the area we live in .So no longer a outsider . People around here very self sufficient and hunters and fisherman.
I will stay here with the family and neighbors. We are way of the main road and be a while before the city folk find way here.

[carver]

Originally Posted by millwright

Bobitis,
It all seems so simple......until you've worked a couple of decades from can to can't just getting by......There's a reason why pioneer families were so large, and Mormons had several wives, FTM.
One of the reasons that families were so large is that there wasn't any reliable birth control.
And who's keeping watch when your head is under that cow milking? One of my sons, my brother, or one of his sons. Plan to have an armour-plated shield around you behind that mule/plow ? Food doesn't j's grow' !! Takes time to prepare and plant a seed bed, cultivate it and harvest and store it all the while protecting it 24/7.....speaking of which, how do you plan to store food - for yourself, family, the work animals you'll need and next season's crops ? BTW, have any experience handling mules/horses/oxen ? Why do you plough the ground? To kill the grass, and soften up the earth. Any vegitable can be planted in a hill, no need to plough at all. And protecting what is planted will be done by those mentioned above. I have ploughed behind a mule, and have been the mule! As for storing food, it will be done here as it always has been done, drying, or canning. Ain't none of this new to me, I've been there and done that!
All of this pre-supposes you won't get sick, suffer an infection, or get hurt/wounded, either. >MW Ain't none of us promised tomorrow, we do what we can. I know how to get what is needed for fevor, infection, or a wound from nature. It grows all by it's self, and no one has to prepare a seed bed for it!

[millwright]

I see you've already got a head start on that "community" Carver !!

Let me know how "hilling" small grains works out !

I'll stand by my original statement. Most of the "SHTF" scenarios/solutions I've come across won't work at any level above stone age primitivism ! >MW

[lentz]

If that were true MW,we wouldn't be here today.