problems with 7.62mm X 54R rounds in a Mosin Nagant. - The Firearms Forum

Mp15-22 · 03-18-2010, 05:51 PM

I dont know if someone knows something about the 7.62mm X 54R rounds, because i have a Mosin Nagant model 1944 and it jams alot on the bulgarian and russian rounds. The rifle fires but when im about to eject the empty casse , i just cant pull back the bolt, it gets really stuck, i have to hit it with a hammer covered with a cloth so i dont damage the bolt. but it works well on the rounds from poland. i want to know if thats commun, and also if i shoud try different ones, if someone have any idea of any other kind ( brand) of this type of cartridge, please let me know. Thanks alot

blackcat_attilio · 03-18-2010, 06:01 PM

Hi! I got a Mosin 91/30, Soviet production, captured and re-worked by the Finns. It shoots pretty good and well. I had such a trouble shooting original (Russian) Barnaul ammo for hunting. After 14 shots the chamber was very hot and I had to wait it was cold to open the bolt. Shooting military Barnaul ammo I hadn't such a heavy trouble anyway the bolt was/is not so "smooth". Never I had/have that trouble using ammo loaded at home...

well, now I load my ammo. Maybe the ammo you're firing are "over pressure" for your rifle. Be careful.

Mp15-22 · 03-18-2010, 06:16 PM

Thanks for the advise (blackcat) im going to consider reloding my own ammo, i dont want that thing to explode on me.

By the way i am a member of the NRA Too.
Thank you.

JLA · 03-18-2010, 06:18 PM

The 7.62X54R has been around for 120 years. Its been chambered in everything from the original 1891 Nagant rifles and the Maxim Machine gun to the SVD sniper rifles and its variants. The stuff sticking in your rifle may be ammo designed for machine guns and is loaded to higher pressures. You can usually tell its machine gun ammo because it will be loaded with a heavy projectile. Id be willing to bet the bulgarian ammo shoots a projectile in the 175 to 185 gr range and the polish stuff is probably loaded with a projectile weight in the 150 gr range. You will want to stay with the light stuff. i had an M44 and it shot best with 149 gr ball.

res45 · 03-20-2010, 12:37 PM

Well you could be experiencing several thing,the majority of the 54r ammo is steel case and lacquer coated. Copper washed steel or even some of the brass case stuff can cause similar problems.

First off steel case ammo doesn't expand like brass case ammo does,when it's fired the case doesn't relax back like brass if you have a tight or dirty chamber it going to be just that much harder to extract.

Second regardless of country of origin you may experience sticky bolt syndrome with either LB or HB ammo in the past when I used to shoot lots of surplus I experiences it with both. Both LB and HB can be high pressure,I've broken down quiet a number of different surplus rds. lowered the powder charge and experienced better accuracy and better extraction along with felt recoil. Handloads in most cases usually take care of the problem all together as long as the rifle is in proper working order.

You might want to give the sticky bolt fix a try and see if it improves things and use a buffer wheel and some fine polishing compound to polish up the bolt lugs,it want hurt to put some of the polishing compound on the lugs themselves and rotate the bolt head to polish the insides. As far as blowing up your rifle with surplus I highly dough that will ever happen the Mosin rifles are way overbuilt,you would have just as good a chance doing so with you own handloads as any surplus,I've seen cases split all the way down the side,blow the primers out and never hurt a thing.

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting...esbs/index.asp

Pt.1
http://www.youtube.com/user/Iraqvete...65/yXC_PQkLkNA
Pt.2
http://www.youtube.com/user/Iraqvete...64/dDngd6LWvzY

After rework
http://www.youtube.com/user/Iraqvete...34/ELd4qpctFmU

blackcat_attilio · 03-20-2010, 04:37 PM

Hi! I talked together some buddies about "your" trouble. From our talk: the Bulgarian and Russian ammo are commonly steel cased ammo and there are some cases that swell tight in the chamber. As long as the primers of the STICKY rounds look the same as those that do not stick after firing: then you are okay. We have had sticky bolts (thats what we call a hard to open bolt on a Mosin) with every kind of ammo except civilian ammunition made nowadays. The Communist ammunition was all over the place on tolerances and the ammo shows it at times. It would be near impossible to blow up a Mosin action: its very strong . We would just shoot the ammo and not worry about it IF primers look the same after firing it. If you are worried about this ammo, you can pull the bullets and reduce the powder charge by 10% and reload the bullet and shoot but I/we will bet you will still encounter sticky bolts every now and then. The worst sticky bolts I/we get are from Czech green lacquer coated steel cased light ball 7.62x54R ammo. Same ammo Czech copper washed steel case rarely does it but the green lacquer stuff is horrible....especially as the barrel heats up after a few round and REALLY TERRIBLE in the summer hot weather months.

Take a brush and solvent and be sure your M44 chamber is really clean of oil and grease as sometime this old grease can become like a hard layer in the chamber and make the rounds stick after firing. . Clean the chamber real well with brush and solvent and see what happens.

PS: forgive my "slang"....... Thanks.

Popgunner · 03-22-2010, 03:46 PM

Apart from the cases actually getting stuck in your Mosin I would suggest you try another "fix". Take out your Mosin bolt & rotate the back end of the bolt simulating it's action as the bolt is opened after firing.You may feel A LOT of friction ast the back of the bolt twists. Look at the surfaces that touch each other as that back part twists. Are they a light grey color? That's the stuff that tends to build up & look alost like the color of the bolt. Adding oil to that grey surface doesn't usually help much. Take the bolt apart & using either crocus cloth & oil or fine sandpaper & oil dress & clean those flat sufaces that rub each other. Remember that the bolt has a hard outer shell of metal & is softer inside. Only polish/cut down to where the metal is shiny & bright-no further & add light rifle grease to the surfaces. This process will help at least reduce the effort required to lift the bolt after firing. If your chamber is dirty that would be another place to fix. Does your bolt match the receiver as far as serial numbers?

03-18-2010, 05:51 PM	#1
Mp15-22 Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Chicago IL Posts: 38	problems with 7.62mm X 54R rounds in a Mosin Nagant. I dont know if someone knows something about the 7.62mm X 54R rounds, because i have a Mosin Nagant model 1944 and it jams alot on the bulgarian and russian rounds. The rifle fires but when im about to eject the empty casse , i just cant pull back the bolt, it gets really stuck, i have to hit it with a hammer covered with a cloth so i dont damage the bolt. but it works well on the rounds from poland. i want to know if thats commun, and also if i shoud try different ones, if someone have any idea of any other kind ( brand) of this type of cartridge, please let me know. Thanks alot -->

03-18-2010, 06:01 PM	#2
blackcat_attilio Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Northern Italy Posts: 515	Re: problems with 7.62mm X 54R rounds in a Mosin Nagant. Hi! I got a Mosin 91/30, Soviet production, captured and re-worked by the Finns. It shoots pretty good and well. I had such a trouble shooting original (Russian) Barnaul ammo for hunting. After 14 shots the chamber was very hot and I had to wait it was cold to open the bolt. Shooting military Barnaul ammo I hadn't such a heavy trouble anyway the bolt was/is not so "smooth". Never I had/have that trouble using ammo loaded at home... well, now I load my ammo. Maybe the ammo you're firing are "over pressure" for your rifle. Be careful. __________________ The secret to successfully hunting bear is to have a companion with you that you can outrun...!

03-18-2010, 06:16 PM	#3
Mp15-22 Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Chicago IL Posts: 38	Re: problems with 7.62mm X 54R rounds in a Mosin Nagant. Thanks for the advise (blackcat) im going to consider reloding my own ammo, i dont want that thing to explode on me. By the way i am a member of the NRA Too. Thank you.

03-18-2010, 06:18 PM	#4
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,308	Re: problems with 7.62mm X 54R rounds in a Mosin Nagant. The 7.62X54R has been around for 120 years. Its been chambered in everything from the original 1891 Nagant rifles and the Maxim Machine gun to the SVD sniper rifles and its variants. The stuff sticking in your rifle may be ammo designed for machine guns and is loaded to higher pressures. You can usually tell its machine gun ammo because it will be loaded with a heavy projectile. Id be willing to bet the bulgarian ammo shoots a projectile in the 175 to 185 gr range and the polish stuff is probably loaded with a projectile weight in the 150 gr range. You will want to stay with the light stuff. i had an M44 and it shot best with 149 gr ball. __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

03-20-2010, 12:37 PM	#5
res45 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 182	Re: problems with 7.62mm X 54R rounds in a Mosin Nagant. Well you could be experiencing several thing,the majority of the 54r ammo is steel case and lacquer coated. Copper washed steel or even some of the brass case stuff can cause similar problems. First off steel case ammo doesn't expand like brass case ammo does,when it's fired the case doesn't relax back like brass if you have a tight or dirty chamber it going to be just that much harder to extract. Second regardless of country of origin you may experience sticky bolt syndrome with either LB or HB ammo in the past when I used to shoot lots of surplus I experiences it with both. Both LB and HB can be high pressure,I've broken down quiet a number of different surplus rds. lowered the powder charge and experienced better accuracy and better extraction along with felt recoil. Handloads in most cases usually take care of the problem all together as long as the rifle is in proper working order. You might want to give the sticky bolt fix a try and see if it improves things and use a buffer wheel and some fine polishing compound to polish up the bolt lugs,it want hurt to put some of the polishing compound on the lugs themselves and rotate the bolt head to polish the insides. As far as blowing up your rifle with surplus I highly dough that will ever happen the Mosin rifles are way overbuilt,you would have just as good a chance doing so with you own handloads as any surplus,I've seen cases split all the way down the side,blow the primers out and never hurt a thing. http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting...esbs/index.asp Pt.1 http://www.youtube.com/user/Iraqvete...65/yXC_PQkLkNA Pt.2 http://www.youtube.com/user/Iraqvete...64/dDngd6LWvzY After rework http://www.youtube.com/user/Iraqvete...34/ELd4qpctFmU Last edited by res45; 03-21-2010 at 09:35 AM..

03-20-2010, 04:37 PM	#6
blackcat_attilio Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Northern Italy Posts: 515	Re: problems with 7.62mm X 54R rounds in a Mosin Nagant. Hi! I talked together some buddies about "your" trouble. From our talk: the Bulgarian and Russian ammo are commonly steel cased ammo and there are some cases that swell tight in the chamber. As long as the primers of the STICKY rounds look the same as those that do not stick after firing: then you are okay. We have had sticky bolts (thats what we call a hard to open bolt on a Mosin) with every kind of ammo except civilian ammunition made nowadays. The Communist ammunition was all over the place on tolerances and the ammo shows it at times. It would be near impossible to blow up a Mosin action: its very strong . We would just shoot the ammo and not worry about it IF primers look the same after firing it. If you are worried about this ammo, you can pull the bullets and reduce the powder charge by 10% and reload the bullet and shoot but I/we will bet you will still encounter sticky bolts every now and then. The worst sticky bolts I/we get are from Czech green lacquer coated steel cased light ball 7.62x54R ammo. Same ammo Czech copper washed steel case rarely does it but the green lacquer stuff is horrible....especially as the barrel heats up after a few round and REALLY TERRIBLE in the summer hot weather months. Take a brush and solvent and be sure your M44 chamber is really clean of oil and grease as sometime this old grease can become like a hard layer in the chamber and make the rounds stick after firing. . Clean the chamber real well with brush and solvent and see what happens. PS: forgive my "slang"....... Thanks. __________________ The secret to successfully hunting bear is to have a companion with you that you can outrun...!

03-22-2010, 03:46 PM	#7
Popgunner Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Contributor Posts: 1,764	Re: problems with 7.62mm X 54R rounds in a Mosin Nagant. Apart from the cases actually getting stuck in your Mosin I would suggest you try another "fix". Take out your Mosin bolt & rotate the back end of the bolt simulating it's action as the bolt is opened after firing.You may feel A LOT of friction ast the back of the bolt twists. Look at the surfaces that touch each other as that back part twists. Are they a light grey color? That's the stuff that tends to build up & look alost like the color of the bolt. Adding oil to that grey surface doesn't usually help much. Take the bolt apart & using either crocus cloth & oil or fine sandpaper & oil dress & clean those flat sufaces that rub each other. Remember that the bolt has a hard outer shell of metal & is softer inside. Only polish/cut down to where the metal is shiny & bright-no further & add light rifle grease to the surfaces. This process will help at least reduce the effort required to lift the bolt after firing. If your chamber is dirty that would be another place to fix. Does your bolt match the receiver as far as serial numbers?