black rifles - The Firearms Forum

wyoredot · 03-21-2010, 07:05 PM

I'm gonna be in the market for a black rifle here in a few weeks, any resident experts and owners want to weigh in? I've heard recommendations on Rock River Arms, DPMS and probably two others that I can't recall here. I will probably suppress it later so a threaded barrel will be in order. Thoughts?

linnel70 · 03-21-2010, 07:33 PM

S&W and Colt all of these are good alot depends on exactly what you are looking for. A trip to your local range would probable give you a chance to try some different models.

JLA · 03-21-2010, 09:28 PM

Id go for the DPMS AP4. Its essentially an M4 with a flat-top and a slightly different barrel contour. An excellent entry level AR-15 and has tons of customization options, and yes, its threaded... http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/?prod=46&cat=1891

JLA · 03-21-2010, 09:32 PM

heres some pics of mine. Its a DPMS lo-pro classic 16" bull bbl. I fitted a full length DPMS float tube to 'hide' the gas system and mounted a Burris Fullfield 2 in a Burris P.E.P.R. mount as well as a Chip McCormick supermatch trigger. With handloads it will shoot less then 3/4 MOA.

wyoredot · 03-21-2010, 09:34 PM

Hmmm, thanks guys, now throw in the wylde chambering thing going on...... not that I'd use 5.56 but... if thats what I could get, I would. Well, that was quick! I do like the looks of your custom, don't care for a flash hider? I only have fired 'em with, but I suppose it ain't a problem..?

JLA · 03-21-2010, 09:37 PM

Do you handload?

wyoredot · 03-21-2010, 09:39 PM

Actually I like the looks alot and see that it is capable of .223 and 5.56. Common with the black rifles? Also we sure got a kick out of the wtf calender thing! That's great! Yes I do handload everything I shoot.

JLA · 03-21-2010, 10:26 PM

5.56 safe for both, .223 for .223 only. I use 5.56 brass and .223 brass indiscriminantly although i do separate and load the 5.56 brass with a half grain less powder. My pet load is a 53 gr. sierra matchking over 24.5 gr of IMR 4895. this load will put 5 rounds into 5/8" at 100 yds and I use the same load topped with a 53 gr. Barnes TSX for deer and hogs, It also shoots SUB MOA. and both loads are developed in .223 brass, Hornady brass to be exact. COL is 2.230 for both as well and I use CCI 450 primers.

Thet WTF calendar thing is funny as anything, my mom sent me that in a text message a few weeks ago while i was driving, I laughed so hard i nearly wrecked...

GunHugger · 03-22-2010, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLA

Yes .223 can safely shoot both. 5.56 for 5.56 only. I use 5.56 brass and .223 brass indiscriminantly although i do separate and load the 5.56 brass with a half grain less powder. My pet load is a 53 gr. sierra matchking over 24.5 gr of IMR 4895. this load will put 5 rounds into 5/8" at 100 yds and I use the same load topped with a 53 gr. Barnes TSX for deer and hogs, It also shoots SUB MOA. and both loads are developed in .223 brass, Hornady brass to be exact. COL is 2.230 for both as well and I use CCI 450 primers.

Thet WTF calendar thing is funny as anything, my mom sent me that in a text message a few weeks ago while i was driving, I laughed so hard i nearly wrecked...

The part in RED is exactly backwards.

Helix_FR · 03-22-2010, 09:12 AM

Really it also depends on your budget. DPMS makes some good stuff but also there is daniel defense, DSA, YHM. Thats just the uppers. Lowers there are many many machine shops turning them out, most though buy their billets from a hand full of casters.
you can shoot .223 in a 5.56 chamber but not vice versa 5.56 had higher pressure spikes on its factory ammo. If you reload and use the same or slightly modified recipe between calibers then its fine. 5.56 and 223 dimensionally are the same but the brass thickness is different to make up for the higher pressures of the 5.56

JLA · 03-22-2010, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GunHugger

The part in RED is exactly backwards.

I did it again

Nice catch gunhugger

docwalt · 03-22-2010, 08:29 PM

Check local laws first....I beleive that threaded barrels are a no-no in
some States.

wyoredot · 03-26-2010, 06:40 PM

Thanks everyone for the ideas. There is a business here in MT that sells the doublestars and I will see if I can shoot a couple then decide.

verminater71 · 03-26-2010, 07:29 PM

My RRA will shoot 1/2MOA cost 2,000$

My Del-ton will shoot 3/4 MOA cost 650$

I don't handload...this is with factory ammo.......if a gun won't shoot 1MOA with factory ammo I sell it....

wyoredot · 03-28-2010, 06:43 PM

V71, Never heard of the Del-ton, ?? would you elaborate? A guy here has a dpms for sale and will let me test fire it. I'm with you on the 1in. or less MOA. I've been bit a couple of times..

bmpeele · 03-28-2010, 07:54 PM

Please forgive my ignorance, but what is a black rifle?

JLA · 03-28-2010, 08:22 PM

AR-15, AK-47, SIG-556, FN SCAR,etc... they all fit the category, but it mosly refers to AR-15/M-16 family...

Helix_FR · 03-28-2010, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmpeele

Please forgive my ignorance, but what is a black rifle?

its the rifles that fall in the AR15, M4, M16 Class/ Called black rifle b/c of the black phosphorous coating of the metal and black polymer stocks and hand guards.
Like so

bmpeele · 03-28-2010, 08:57 PM

Ah okay thank you.

verminater71 · 03-29-2010, 08:26 PM

wyoredot,
I have a couple upper kits from here and they shoot very good
they have most parts in stock, and ship within a couple weeks

http://www.del-ton.com/AR_15_Rifle_Kits_16_s/57.htm

Bobitis · 03-29-2010, 09:31 PM

2 Del-tons here.
1 carbine, one 20".

Nice mount Josh.

GunHugger · 03-29-2010, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by verminater71

My RRA will shoot 1/2MOA cost 2,000$

My Del-ton will shoot 3/4 MOA cost 650$

I don't handload...this is with factory ammo.......if a gun won't shoot 1MOA with factory ammo I sell it....

AR cost doesn't determine accuracy, type of barrel and matching your ammo to the twist rate does. Chrome lined in general won't shoot as good as a good non chrome lined barrel.

What RRA costs $2000?

JLA · 03-30-2010, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobitis

2 Del-tons here.
1 carbine, one 20".

Nice mount Josh.

You better believe it. One of the better members of this very forum turned me onto it

You should get one

Double D · 03-30-2010, 08:37 AM

I have a brand new bushmaster ar-15 with carry handle, flash surpressor, bayonet lug and hard plastic case for 900.00. Same gun elsewhere is 1100.00and up.

verminater71 · 03-30-2010, 06:17 PM

gunhugger,
It didn't start out at 2,000$ thats just were it ended up....it's a varminter EOP with a stainless 16" bull barrell...

and you are rite cost does not dictate accuracy....that is what I was trying to say

Seems ARs are getting like everything else you pay double for the name

03-21-2010, 07:05 PM	#1
wyoredot Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Montana Posts: 553	black rifles I'm gonna be in the market for a black rifle here in a few weeks, any resident experts and owners want to weigh in? I've heard recommendations on Rock River Arms, DPMS and probably two others that I can't recall here. I will probably suppress it later so a threaded barrel will be in order. Thoughts? -->

03-21-2010, 07:33 PM	#2
linnel70 Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 8	Re: black rifles S&W and Colt all of these are good alot depends on exactly what you are looking for. A trip to your local range would probable give you a chance to try some different models.

03-21-2010, 09:28 PM	#3
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,399	Re: black rifles Id go for the DPMS AP4. Its essentially an M4 with a flat-top and a slightly different barrel contour. An excellent entry level AR-15 and has tons of customization options, and yes, its threaded... http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/?prod=46&cat=1891 __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

03-21-2010, 09:32 PM	#4
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,399	Re: black rifles heres some pics of mine. Its a DPMS lo-pro classic 16" bull bbl. I fitted a full length DPMS float tube to 'hide' the gas system and mounted a Burris Fullfield 2 in a Burris P.E.P.R. mount as well as a Chip McCormick supermatch trigger. With handloads it will shoot less then 3/4 MOA. Attached Images __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

03-21-2010, 09:34 PM	#5
wyoredot Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Montana Posts: 553	Re: black rifles Hmmm, thanks guys, now throw in the wylde chambering thing going on...... not that I'd use 5.56 but... if thats what I could get, I would. Well, that was quick! I do like the looks of your custom, don't care for a flash hider? I only have fired 'em with, but I suppose it ain't a problem..? Last edited by wyoredot; 03-21-2010 at 09:36 PM.. Reason: picture comment

03-21-2010, 09:37 PM	#6
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,399	Re: black rifles Do you handload? __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

03-21-2010, 09:39 PM	#7
wyoredot Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Montana Posts: 553	Re: black rifles Actually I like the looks alot and see that it is capable of .223 and 5.56. Common with the black rifles? Also we sure got a kick out of the wtf calender thing! That's great! Yes I do handload everything I shoot. Last edited by wyoredot; 03-21-2010 at 09:40 PM.. Reason: add-on

03-21-2010, 10:26 PM	#8
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,399	Re: black rifles 5.56 safe for both, .223 for .223 only. I use 5.56 brass and .223 brass indiscriminantly although i do separate and load the 5.56 brass with a half grain less powder. My pet load is a 53 gr. sierra matchking over 24.5 gr of IMR 4895. this load will put 5 rounds into 5/8" at 100 yds and I use the same load topped with a 53 gr. Barnes TSX for deer and hogs, It also shoots SUB MOA. and both loads are developed in .223 brass, Hornady brass to be exact. COL is 2.230 for both as well and I use CCI 450 primers. Thet WTF calendar thing is funny as anything, my mom sent me that in a text message a few weeks ago while i was driving, I laughed so hard i nearly wrecked... __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF! Last edited by JLA; 03-22-2010 at 08:32 PM.. Reason: goofed

03-22-2010, 09:12 AM	#10
Helix_FR TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Imperial, MO Posts: 3,669	Re: black rifles Really it also depends on your budget. DPMS makes some good stuff but also there is daniel defense, DSA, YHM. Thats just the uppers. Lowers there are many many machine shops turning them out, most though buy their billets from a hand full of casters. you can shoot .223 in a 5.56 chamber but not vice versa 5.56 had higher pressure spikes on its factory ammo. If you reload and use the same or slightly modified recipe between calibers then its fine. 5.56 and 223 dimensionally are the same but the brass thickness is different to make up for the higher pressures of the 5.56 __________________ Only cowards shoot with their eyes closed.... helixgunsmith.com

03-22-2010, 08:29 PM	#12
docwalt Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Central New Jersey Posts: 33	Re: black rifles Check local laws first....I beleive that threaded barrels are a no-no in some States.

03-26-2010, 06:40 PM	#13
wyoredot Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Montana Posts: 553	Re: black rifles Thanks everyone for the ideas. There is a business here in MT that sells the doublestars and I will see if I can shoot a couple then decide.

03-26-2010, 07:29 PM	#14
verminater71 Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: NY..for now Posts: 11	Re: black rifles My RRA will shoot 1/2MOA cost 2,000$ My Del-ton will shoot 3/4 MOA cost 650$ I don't handload...this is with factory ammo.......if a gun won't shoot 1MOA with factory ammo I sell it....

03-28-2010, 06:43 PM	#15
wyoredot Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Montana Posts: 553	Re: black rifles V71, Never heard of the Del-ton, ?? would you elaborate? A guy here has a dpms for sale and will let me test fire it. I'm with you on the 1in. or less MOA. I've been bit a couple of times..

03-28-2010, 07:54 PM	#16
bmpeele V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: The grand old state of North Carolina Posts: 492	Re: black rifles Please forgive my ignorance, but what is a black rifle? __________________ It's not the size, it's the placement of the bullet.

03-28-2010, 08:22 PM	#17
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,399	Re: black rifles AR-15, AK-47, SIG-556, FN SCAR,etc... they all fit the category, but it mosly refers to AR-15/M-16 family... __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

03-28-2010, 08:57 PM	#19
bmpeele V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: The grand old state of North Carolina Posts: 492	Re: black rifles Ah okay thank you. __________________ It's not the size, it's the placement of the bullet.

03-29-2010, 08:26 PM	#20
verminater71 Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: NY..for now Posts: 11	Re: black rifles wyoredot, I have a couple upper kits from here and they shoot very good they have most parts in stock, and ship within a couple weeks http://www.del-ton.com/AR_15_Rifle_Kits_16_s/57.htm

03-29-2010, 09:31 PM	#21
Bobitis Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 6,612	Re: black rifles 2 Del-tons here. 1 carbine, one 20". Nice mount Josh. __________________ ^.^ A point in every direction is the same as having no point at all

03-30-2010, 08:37 AM	#24
Double D TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: North Florida Contributor Posts: 8,246	Re: black rifles I have a brand new bushmaster ar-15 with carry handle, flash surpressor, bayonet lug and hard plastic case for 900.00. Same gun elsewhere is 1100.00and up. __________________ I own a bunch of scary guns. You want em? Come and take em..... Liberalism is a serious, non curable, mental disorder... NRA LIFE MEMBER Oath Keepers Member NRA Certified Instructor 30 Yr CC permit holder.

03-30-2010, 06:17 PM	#25
verminater71 Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: NY..for now Posts: 11	Re: black rifles gunhugger, It didn't start out at 2,000$ thats just were it ended up....it's a varminter EOP with a stainless 16" bull barrell... and you are rite cost does not dictate accuracy....that is what I was trying to say Seems ARs are getting like everything else you pay double for the name