H&R .32 top break revolver

[Jim Hauff]

HarleyPat,
Welcome to the forum! What took ya sooo long?

From the pics - you have a very nice example of a 2nd Model PREMIER 2nd Variation (1906 - 1908). It was made to handle smokeless/Nitro powder loads in the .32 S&W (the short one) cartridge. If safe to shoot (I recommend getting it checked by a pro gunsmith), it should be able to handle the modern factory loadings offered in that cartridge (.32 Longs or .32 H&R Mags will not fit - too long - so don't even try.) You don't offer the serial number, so I can't pin down (actually guess) what year in that range your piece was made. If you remove the cylinder (note that the latch hold open button is no longer available on your variation - so hold the latch upward while unscrewing the cylinder). Underside of the top strap will have a serial number stamped and there may be a letter prefix. If you would - please provide what you see there.
Other than the blued finish (which is scarcely seen in the early 2nd Models) your gun has the standard 3" barrel with the molded, black hard-rubber grip panels. In the condition apparent from the pics and adding a 10% premium for the blued finish, my estimate of the RETAIL value of your gun is in the $185 - $215 range in the current market. It is a nice looking and, hopefully, functioning piece.

[HarleyPat]

Thanks so much Jim! Much appreciated! I'm on the road as I travel a lot doing what I do. When I return home I will get you the serial number....wait...I think I have it on this computer...BRB....152710 is on the bottom of the frame. From what I read in this thread I still need to take the cylinder off to get an accurate number. I'll have to do that when I get home.
Thanks again and let the education begin

[Jim Hauff]

Pat,
Thanks for responding and thanks for thanking. With that serial number - I doubt that there will be any letter prefixes. I'm lacking info on this 2nd Variation serial number series - but from surrounding evidence it appears to be in the later part of the series - so, I'm guessing your gun was made in 1908. Let us know how you make out with that little gem, especially if you decide to shoot it. I've only ever shot two Premiers and both were chambered for .22 rimfire - I was surprised at the accuracy potential out to 25 to 30 FEET - not yards nor meters nor light years.

[trusswow]

Can someone tell me which version of the H&R .32 I have here? It was my grandfathers and has been in the family for many years. I have shot LOTS of modern ammo through this baby.. BUT from what I read here.. it might not be safe.
Serial number is: A81924
Premium 32 S&W CTGE on left of barrel
Thanks for any info!

[Jim Hauff]

Trusswow,
You have a very nice example of the 2nd Model PREMIER POLICE AUTOMATIC 1st Variation made circa 1905. It was made to handle smokeless/Nitro powder loads.
The "POLICE" part of the name comes from the patented spurless hammer.
The "AUTOMATIC" part of the name comes from the auto ejection of all casings upon opening the action. This model is somewhat scarce and adding to the scarcity is the extended wrap around "Target Style" molded, black hard-rubber grips.
It appears to be in VERY GOOD + to low EXCELLENT condition and in that configuration would be worth, at RETAIL, between $275 and $300 - it has definite collector interest.
You of course are restricting your choice of ammo to .32 S&W (the shorter ones), I'm sure that .32 S&W LONG would NOT fit in the cylinder, but if by chance they should - don't shoot it.
Nice collectible gun.

[trusswow]

Thanks so much for the information. This little rascal has been in the sock drawer of my grandad and my dad for many years. It supposedly came into my grandad's life in Chicago in the roaring 20's when a "neighbor" dropped it off for "safe keeping"... I found it a while back at my mom's house (88 years old and does NOT need a gun) and brought it home. I remember carrying it in the woods when I was a young boy and shooting at cans and out houses.
It works great (all except the automatic ejection). It needs a good cleaning and oiling. I'm glad to know it will fire modern ammo. I think I'll clean it up and may use it as my CC for a while. It fits perfectly in my Lifetime NRA jacket!

Regards
T

[Jim Hauff]

trusswow,
You're welcome. Glad to help out.
AND thanks for thanking.
HAPPY NEW YEAR

[scuubbs]

I have a .32 H&R breaktop which does not seem to fit the info I have read in this post. It is marked on left side of barrel "auto ejecting .32 S&W ctge", s/n 188### no letter designation, 3 1/4 barrel, six shot, blk plastic target grips. Top of barrel list two patent dates "august 6,1889 october 8,1895".

I would like to know when made and powder type. Also the gun does not have any hammer stops. Functions fine double action only. Would fire if closed on cartridge because hammer resting in fire position. What is the problem?

I would appreciate any help. Bob

[Jim Hauff]

scuubbs,
Welcome to the forum.
Your gun doesn't fit the info because it is a different model. Yours is a 3rd MODEL AUTO EJECTING 2nd Variation - which is a "large frame" hinged frame. The 2nd Variation was in production between 1909 and 1912 and was made to handle SMOKELESS/Nitro powder loads - .32 S&W or .32 S&W LONG cartridges (or the equivalent Colt New Police carts.)
The grips are made of molded, black, hard-rubber and if the gun is Nickel plated it is the standard configuration. Options included blued finish, 2 1/2", 4, 5 or 6" barrels and M.O.P., checkered walnut or Ivory grips - all of which add value. This gun was also offered chambered in .38 S&W smokeless loads.

Sounds as though the SINGLE ACTION sear mechanism is screwed up. There's a couple guys on this forum that can help walk you through your mechanical problem.

Here's a pics of a couple unusual/scarce or rare examples from the same era.

[scuubbs]

Thanks so much Sir. Funny because the guy who sold me the gun sold it as antique (pre 1899). Yes I sure would like to fix it I considered opening her up. If someone could give me some advice I would greatly appreciate it.

I notice mine has the screw on cylinder also if that makes any difference. It is nickel and trigger guard is not. The gun is in excellent condition though about 90% or better, barley fired at all.

i understand about the single action mode but did they have that little partial cock (to retract the firing pin from hitting primer) back in those days or did you just carry on empty cylinder?

Thanks again Jim
Bob

[scuubbs]

I see the problem now. the sear is in the trigger guard and mine appears to have no spring tension. I can even tell from the pics you posted by how it protrudes on the inside of trigger guard. I can actually operate mine with my thumb and am able to lock in safe cock and single action cock by pulling the little sear while cocking. Now I just need to know if I should open and see about spring.

Someone guide me please?

Bob

[Jim Hauff]

scuubbs,
You're welcome.
During the time your gun was made - there were 3 positive ways to carry that gun safely: hammer down on an empty chamber; firing pin engaged in the primer of a fired casing; firing pin resting on the face of the cylinder between shell casing heads.
H&R recommended the last two methods. A rebounding hammer came along later.



I'm sure one of the guys who routinely takes these guns apart will come along soon. If not address your question to member STONECHIMNEY.

[Pedder Galaxia]

G'day All
New to this site, fairly computer illiterate and not sure if I am in the right place but here goes.
Have recently been shown a H and R top break revolver. I is just a little different from all the others I have seen on this forum.The patent details on the rib of the barrel are Oct 8 1895. The left side of the barrel is stamped Premier 32 S&W ctge. The trigger, trigger guard and hammer are all blued but the rest is nickle plated. The barrel is 3 inches long and the s/n under the top rib and also on the butt of the handle is 183669.

Can it be precisely identified using that information?

Jim

[StoneChimney]

Scrubs,

In order to replace the sear spring you have to pull the trigger guard. The sear is retained by the rear trigger guard pin. It is a fairly simple procedure to fit a new sear spring, but reassembly is a bit trickier. By removing the trigger guard you will also have released the trigger return spring. To replace the trigger guard with everything just so, you will need to make a slave pin to hold the sear and sear spring in place, set the trigger return spring in place, push the trigger guard back into the frame while holding the sear in the correct position and replace the pins.

We use cup-tip punches to prevent flattening the pins, although they should not require much force to remove. Please do not remove the trigger or the hammer.

[Jim Hauff]

Pedder Galaxia,
Welcome to the forum.
You have a 2nd Model PREMIER 3rd Variation made between 1909 and 1913. With 3" barrel, Nickel plated, blued trigger, hammer and trigger guard - it is the "standard" configuration for this model.

[Pedder Galaxia]

Thanks Jim. I appreciate your help.

[Jim Hauff]

Pedder,
You're welcome. Should add: In the configuration cited, if in EXCELLENT condition, the RETAIL value will run up to $200 +/- $25. In lesser condition, the value drops in about $20 increments to a POOR condition value just under 90 bucks or so. Old and/or, messed up guns have parts value.

[duck32man]

Jim - I have a 32 S&W Premier S#1359XX Top of barrel reads
HArrington & Richardson Arms Company
Worchester Mass USA PAt April 2 95 April 7 96

I also have a Hammerless 38S&W S# 1400XX Top of barrel reads
Harrington & Richardson Arms Co
Has the retainer on the top strap and single rod extractor
Worchester Mass USA
I was wondering if you can give me any info?
THanks in advance

Duck

[Jim Hauff]

DUCK,
The PREMIER is a 2nd Model 2nd Variation. It was made between 1906 and 1908 and suitable for use with smokeless/Nitro powder loads. Can't tell you anything else without more info: physical description, barrel length, etc.

The HAMMERLESS, solely from the serial number is probably a 2nd Model and if so, either a 2nd or 3rd or 4th variation. Can't tell you anything else without more info: ALL the markings on top rib (Patent date?) and left side of barrel; physical description, barrel length, etc. If there is NO patent date and Mass. is not spelled out, it is a 4rh or 5th Var. but the serial number doesn't fit in the current "estimated" range.

[duck32man]

Jim - the 32 is a 3"

38 is about 3.25" mass is not spelled out. No pat dates anywhere and serial number is on cylinder under top strap and under left grip panel and on the butt. Thanks for your help

[TSTRUKL]

Originally Posted by Jim Hauff

DUCK,
The PREMIER is a 2nd Model 2nd Variation. It was made between 1906 and 1908 and suitable for use with smokeless/Nitro powder loads. Can't tell you anything else without more info: physical description, barrel length, etc.

The HAMMERLESS, solely from the serial number is probably a 2nd Model and if so, either a 2nd or 3rd or 4th variation. Can't tell you anything else without more info: ALL the markings on top rib (Patent date?) and left side of barrel; physical description, barrel length, etc. If there is NO patent date and Mass. is not spelled out, it is a 4rh or 5th Var. but the serial number doesn't fit in the current "estimated" range.

Hey Jim,

New to the website and read about these H&R top loaders. I have one that I inherited from my Dad. It's a 5 shot.32 with a 3 inch barrel. It doesn't have any info on or in it. No SN....nothing. It's nickel and in pristine condition. There are 2 boxes of original ammo with it. Is it safe to shoot the old stuff or is there new ammo that will fit?

[Jim Hauff]

TSTRUKL,
Welcome to the forum.
You have what appears to be a 1st Model PREMIER made before 1905 - if there is not cartridge stamp on the left side of barrel. IF SO, it was made to shoot BLACK POWDER loads. The "real" serial number will be found stamped into the underside of the top strap (remove cylinder to see it there) and the "secondary" serial number will be found under the left grip panel, stamped into the bottom cross strut. Knowing that number will help determining when or approximately when your gun was made. Nickel with 3" bbl is the "standard" issue for this model. Got PICS??
As to the ammo - I don't know what the loads are without seeing the boxes or at least everything written on the boxes. They may be Black Powder, don't know. I (as well as others) don't recommend firing modern factory loaded .32 S&W ammo through those pre smokeless era (>1904) handguns.

[Jim Hauff]

Duckman,
Thanks for the additional info - this model can be a bear to date and figure out as there appears to be a lot of cross-over in the serial numbers.
From the additional info and the pic (thanks) - you have a 2nd Model LARGE FRAME HAMMERLESS 4th VARIATION made between 1913 - '15. That serial number is probably 1914 usage. It appears to be in "average" condition (between 80% and 90% finish) and as such the RETAIL value ranges from ~ $170 to ~$200 - maybe a little less in today's market. It is suitable for use with SMOKELESS powder, modern factory loads in .38 S&W.
The PREMIER was lots easier and stands as I described it before. It appears to be in " LOW average" condition (70% - 80%) with some rust near the left side muzzle and current RETAIL value would be in the range $100 - $130, in today's market perhaps a bit less.
Both pieces are "standard" configuration. Blued finish and longer barrel lengths would increase collector interest and value.

[duck32man]

Jim you're the greatest - Thank You.

[Jim Hauff]