Semi auto shotgun - The Firearms Forum

duane5157 · 05-10-2010, 09:06 AM

The general consenus is a pump shot gun for home defense. Is it the sound of the shell being racked or is it more likely the cost of a pump vs a auto loader. The reason I ask Im looking for an all rounder shotgun and I can get a exceptional price on the sx3 winchester. Any pros or cons I need to be aware of. Thanks duane

pinecone70 · 05-10-2010, 09:13 AM

I think the sound of a pump shotgun being racked is an urban legend deterrent that stemmed from the movies. If an intruder wants to harm you, the sound may alert him to your position more than anything else. The reasons pump shotguns are nice for home defense is that they are quick to load as well as being good in tight spaces (provided they have barrels on the short side). I have a semi-auto 12 gauge for my all-purpose shotgun.

Alpo · 05-10-2010, 09:53 AM

There's pros and cons.

With a pump, you might short-stroke it. This will either cause you to close on an empty chamber, or jam the live round in the carrier mechanism. Either way - bad. That won't happen with an automatic.

With a pump, if one hand/arm is damaged or busy (like, holding a light, maybe), it is very hard to cycle in a new round. That also won't happen with an automatic.

Automatics are, to some degree, ammo sensitive. An automatic (of any kind - rifle, pistol, shotgun) has to have so much pressure to work. It needs to have enough force to move the springs and work the action. Some are adjustable, so that you can set them up to work with heavy loads or with puny loads, but they won't automatically adjust. You have to set them up beforehand. Pumps will work with anything you can get in them.

In the olden days, with paper shells, if the shells got damp they might swell, and with the automatic they might get stuck going into the chamber. With a pump, you can force them to fit. This is not as much of a problem nowadays, with plastic shells. Cheaper shells, though, have a brass-washed steel head (instead of a brass head) and it can rust, which will cause similar problems.

With a pump, you can work it without taking your hands away from the "shooting controls". With your shooting hand at the trigger, you can reach over with your finger and hit the release, while your other hand is on the pump, so you pull it. With an automatic, you have to move your hand up to the side of the receiver and pull the bolt back, then go down to another spot and push a release to make the bolt go forward to chamber the round.

I also think "the sound of a 12-gauge pump being racked will make the burglar wet his pants" is pure malarkey.

While I have one automatic shotgun, my house-gun is a pump.

sorral · 05-10-2010, 10:00 AM

When I was looking for my shotgun, I bought a pump. The clerk told me that it is the sound that will make many mess themselves. I have asked my law enforcement friends to comment, and they told me the same thing....EVERY scum bag they have arrested knows the sound!

cakes · 05-10-2010, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sorral

.EVERY scum bag they have arrested knows the sound!

So, they know to shoot you because you have a shotgun!

I think cost is a major factor. Also, as previously mentioned, autos get a bad rap because of problems that were solved a long time ago. Modern autos are as reliable as pumps.

pickenup · 05-10-2010, 07:25 PM

My house shotgun is a semi-auto.
It is loaded and ready for bear.

As for the sound of a pump, I do NOT want an intruder to know where I am, much less, that I am armed.

terryu1 · 05-11-2010, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sorral

...EVERY scum bag they have arrested knows the sound!

And don't forget those scum bags who heard that sound but were never arrested .. Te He He ... RIP

carver · 05-11-2010, 02:36 PM

Come on guys, who would have a shot gun, of any kind, for home defense, that wasn't loaded? If I had a pump shotgun for home defense it would be loaded to the gills. The only sound the BG will ever hear in my house, is maybe when I click off the safety, or the roar from the gun as the charge tears into his body!

Old Grump · 05-11-2010, 03:16 PM

I have semi-auto, pump, bolt action and single shot but the pump is my go to gun because I'm more familiar with it and long usage inspires confidence in the gun.

The only thing a boogerman would hear if I had to confront him would be the sound of my safety going off and the pounding of his heart. Nothing wrong with the semi but I shoot as fast with the pump and its easier for me to reload quickly. Probably the familiarity thing working for me.

pickenup · 05-11-2010, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Grump

Nothing wrong with the semi but I shoot as fast with the pump and its easier for me to reload quickly.

I would take that bet. ROFLMAO.

Old Grump · 05-12-2010, 01:00 AM

Since I wrote that this morning I went out this afternoon trying out some new loads for both guns, the Mossberg pump and the Winchester semi-auto. Shooting at water filled bottles and a paper target at 8 yards and 30 yards I done did it again. 5 good shots with my pump in the time it took me to get 3 good shots with the semi. In fairness it must be revealed that I was shooting 2 3/4" 1 oz. #4 in the pump gun. Load for the semi was 3", 1 1/4 oz. #3 and the semi has an 18" barrel. Recovery time between shots was a wee bit longer, go figure. Both worked very well but I actually had better patterns with the #4.

Hunting Man · 05-12-2010, 07:55 PM

Shouldn't need a second shot, however, if needed, I would opt for the semi-auto. I also don't put much faith in the pump sound as a deterrent. If the intruder is in my home then I don't want him to know my position. At that point I move to the offensive position and hopefully I win.

jim brady · 05-12-2010, 08:53 PM

Either way, unless you keep one in the chamber, you're going to have to cycle the action to load it. Now if you have anyone in the house other than you - say your wife or kids - keeping a gun with a loaded chamber is not a very good idea. That's a bad newspaper story waiting for a date on it.

I've got an old 97 Winchester pump that COULD be kept loaded FAIRLY safely. If the mag tube is loaded and the hammer cocked to the first 'safety' notch, the action locks up - and cannot be racked until the hammer is first let down. But still, I would'nt keep even that one loaded if I had kids or grandkids around.

Thing about a shotgun is you should'nt need more than one shot to do the job......

Actually did have the sound of a round chambering keep me from needing to use a gun. That was a .45 I had when I came back from overseas. Worked the late shift - odd hours. A potential burgler attempted to open my apartment door late one night. I was on the other side of the door(I heard the guy sneaking outside my balcony), and I released the slide/chambered a round. All I heard was "patter-patter" of footsteps running away.

old semperfi · 06-01-2010, 06:15 PM

my opinion is that the sound of a pump gun being racked would tell an intruder that you are very serious about your home and property and are willing to defend it.i think that most times when it is some punk it would serve to keep you from killing a 15-16 year old kid.i would prefere to scare someone away long before killing them.once youve taken a life it is something,no matter how justified you can never forget. old semperfi

AngelDeville · 06-01-2010, 07:15 PM

I don't have the time or inclination to pump a damn shotgun.

Alpo · 06-01-2010, 09:39 PM

I am a firm believer in making a loud noise that will let the criminal intruder know that you are serious and prepared to defend you life and property. I think the noise should be "BANG", though, and not "rack-rack".

I do see where you are coming from, with the "scare the 17-year-old punk away, instead of killing him". His death isn't on your conscience.

But, let's just hypothesize, for a moment. David Berkowitz, between July '76 and August '77, did eight shootings, shooting 13 people, and killing six of them. So, let's say (hypothetical) that between shooting #3 and shooting #4, he was trying another one, and was scared off, for some reason. Cop car came along, there were too many people with the intended victim, whatever. Something scared him off, so that victim did not get killed. He went on, however, to kill five more people and wound four others. If, instead of scaring him away at intended shooting #4, he had been killed, then nine people would not have been shot.

Just something to think about, when someone suggests that it's better to scare the burglar off. He's got the balls to break into my house in the middle of the night. Now, maybe he ain't got the balls to stand up to me and my dog and my 12 gauge, but what if he had broke into the house across the street, with the 80-year-old lady that lives alone?

lucky-gunner · 06-02-2010, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpo

Just something to think about, when someone suggests that it's better to scare the burglar off. He's got the balls to break into my house in the middle of the night. Now, maybe he ain't got the balls to stand up to me and my dog and my 12 gauge, but what if he had broke into the house across the street, with the 80-year-old lady that lives alone?

Alpo,

Good point never thought about it like that.

Regards

bcj1755 · 06-02-2010, 09:29 PM

Semi-auto shotgun? One word...Saiga

Man, I need to get me one of those

bikeryoda · 06-03-2010, 11:00 PM

I also don't want the intruder knowing where I am... And personally I believe that everyone has to eat the consequences of their actions. If someone has the nerve to break into my house then they better have the nerve to meet their end. I have a Saiga-12 for my HD and keep it loaded with 00 buck... I would choose a semi auto over a pump any day simply because of the speed at which you can fire, and with the Saiga reloading is just as fast.

And call me a mall ninja but I've also got a Chaos PorkyPine bayonette in case the intruder miraculously makes it past the lead hahaha...

pickenup · 06-04-2010, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcj1755

Semi-auto shotgun? One word...Saiga

Man, I need to get me one of those

I don't think you would be unhappy with a Saiga.
That is what my house shotgun is.

When I said I would take that bet, it is because I have shot the Saiga in competition. We have some guys that are pretty darn good/fast with their pump shotguns. But when put up against a Saiga for speed of both shooting and reloading, pumps tend to fall short.

If comparing two men, both having equal experience with their shotguns. I would like to see the one using a pump, that can load 12 - 20 rounds, quicker than the one inserting a single magazine or drum.

There is a reason that IPSC classified the Saiga as an "open" class shotgun.
Even for going up against other semi-autos.

doug66 · 06-05-2010, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carver

Come on guys, who would have a shot gun, of any kind, for home defense, that wasn't loaded? If I had a pump shotgun for home defense it would be loaded to the gills. The only sound the BG will ever hear in my house, is maybe when I click off the safety, or the roar from the gun as the charge tears into his body!

Exactly what I was thinking, Carver.

When I'm in the woods, deer huntin'. I need to see the animal before it sees me. So I will have time to flick off the safety, without it getting so close it get hear me do it. My point is, in close quarters you better have the drop on whatever u r shooting at.

IMO u can't go wrong with Rem. 870 or 1100.

tcox4freedom · 06-05-2010, 10:15 AM

I'm a Saiga 12 guy myself. IMO; the BEST tactical HD shotgun available. Although, I do think AA (or sombody) makes a "Bull Pup" semi-12 that I would like to have.

I also agree with EVERYTHING Pinecone, Carver, Old Grump and Alpo have stated!

I've been a victim of TWO "home" invasions and I can tell you having to rack the slide 1st is NOT a good idea!

IMHO: the BG(s) should only here ONE thing: BANG!!

If some of our more liberal friends wish to warn them and yell "GET OUT of MY HOUSE!" Then by all means, feel free to do so.

But IMHO, depending on the "sound" of a slide being racked to scare off the BG(s) is a "fools" folly brought to us by Hollywierd.

Recon 173 · 09-12-2010, 04:39 PM

A pump shotgun, to me, equals reliability. As has been said some autos are sensitive to certain ammo. A pump shotgun will shoot it if you get it into the chamber. Same thing for the auto IF the mechanism will feed the shell. A light load in a pump gun will work if the person does their job. But in an autoloader that same shell is a jam.

TheDoctor · 09-23-2010, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcj1755

Semi-auto shotgun? One word...Saiga

Man, I need to get me one of those

Another word: Benelli. I've been trying to find a Benelli M3 Super 90 for 3 years. No one around me carries them, or will order one without me putting the full amount up front. I'm not putting that much money down until I see the gun. I don't mind a quarter or so, but not all.

NRA_guy · 09-23-2010, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoctor

Another word: Benelli. I've been trying to find a Benelli M3 Super 90 for 3 years. No one around me carries them, or will order one without me putting the full amount up front. I'm not putting that much money down until I see the gun. I don't mind a quarter or so, but not all.

Benelli is running a factory rebate now on their tactical shotguns.

Might just be enough to persuade me.

See:

http://www.benelliusa.com/promos/index.php

05-10-2010, 09:06 AM	#1
duane5157 Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 13	Semi auto shotgun The general consenus is a pump shot gun for home defense. Is it the sound of the shell being racked or is it more likely the cost of a pump vs a auto loader. The reason I ask Im looking for an all rounder shotgun and I can get a exceptional price on the sx3 winchester. Any pros or cons I need to be aware of. Thanks duane __________________ The only easy day was yesterday MP45/ crimson trace -->

05-10-2010, 09:13 AM	#2
pinecone70 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Minnesota Gal! Posts: 4,730	Re: Semi auto shotgun I think the sound of a pump shotgun being racked is an urban legend deterrent that stemmed from the movies. If an intruder wants to harm you, the sound may alert him to your position more than anything else. The reasons pump shotguns are nice for home defense is that they are quick to load as well as being good in tight spaces (provided they have barrels on the short side). I have a semi-auto 12 gauge for my all-purpose shotgun. __________________ _____________________________________________ "Miss Scarlet, in the library...with a revolver...."

05-10-2010, 07:25 PM	#6
pickenup Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains Posts: 6,838	Re: Semi auto shotgun My house shotgun is a semi-auto. It is loaded and ready for bear. As for the sound of a pump, I do NOT want an intruder to know where I am, much less, that I am armed. __________________ The gene pool needs chlorine

05-11-2010, 02:36 PM	#8
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,288	Re: Semi auto shotgun Come on guys, who would have a shot gun, of any kind, for home defense, that wasn't loaded? If I had a pump shotgun for home defense it would be loaded to the gills. The only sound the BG will ever hear in my house, is maybe when I click off the safety, or the roar from the gun as the charge tears into his body! __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

05-11-2010, 03:16 PM	#9
Old Grump Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Little hut in the woods near Blue River Wisconsin Posts: 2,291	Re: Semi auto shotgun I have semi-auto, pump, bolt action and single shot but the pump is my go to gun because I'm more familiar with it and long usage inspires confidence in the gun. The only thing a boogerman would hear if I had to confront him would be the sound of my safety going off and the pounding of his heart. Nothing wrong with the semi but I shoot as fast with the pump and its easier for me to reload quickly. Probably the familiarity thing working for me. __________________ "When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil."~~- Thomas Jefferson Roman Catholic, Life Member of American Legion, VFW, Wisconsin Libertarian party, Wi-FORCE, WGO, NRA, JPFO, GOA, SAFand CCRKBA

05-10-2010, 09:53 AM	#3
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,662	Re: Semi auto shotgun There's pros and cons. With a pump, you might short-stroke it. This will either cause you to close on an empty chamber, or jam the live round in the carrier mechanism. Either way - bad. That won't happen with an automatic. With a pump, if one hand/arm is damaged or busy (like, holding a light, maybe), it is very hard to cycle in a new round. That also won't happen with an automatic. Automatics are, to some degree, ammo sensitive. An automatic (of any kind - rifle, pistol, shotgun) has to have so much pressure to work. It needs to have enough force to move the springs and work the action. Some are adjustable, so that you can set them up to work with heavy loads or with puny loads, but they won't automatically adjust. You have to set them up beforehand. Pumps will work with anything you can get in them. In the olden days, with paper shells, if the shells got damp they might swell, and with the automatic they might get stuck going into the chamber. With a pump, you can force them to fit. This is not as much of a problem nowadays, with plastic shells. Cheaper shells, though, have a brass-washed steel head (instead of a brass head) and it can rust, which will cause similar problems. With a pump, you can work it without taking your hands away from the "shooting controls". With your shooting hand at the trigger, you can reach over with your finger and hit the release, while your other hand is on the pump, so you pull it. With an automatic, you have to move your hand up to the side of the receiver and pull the bolt back, then go down to another spot and push a release to make the bolt go forward to chamber the round. I also think "the sound of a 12-gauge pump being racked will make the burglar wet his pants" is pure malarkey. While I have one automatic shotgun, my house-gun is a pump. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

05-10-2010, 10:00 AM	#4
sorral V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 153	Re: Semi auto shotgun When I was looking for my shotgun, I bought a pump. The clerk told me that it is the sound that will make many mess themselves. I have asked my law enforcement friends to comment, and they told me the same thing....EVERY scum bag they have arrested knows the sound! __________________ "Guns don't kill people, husbands that come home early do"- Larry the Cable Guy 100% Infidel and lovin it!

05-12-2010, 01:00 AM	#11
Old Grump Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Little hut in the woods near Blue River Wisconsin Posts: 2,291	Re: Semi auto shotgun Since I wrote that this morning I went out this afternoon trying out some new loads for both guns, the Mossberg pump and the Winchester semi-auto. Shooting at water filled bottles and a paper target at 8 yards and 30 yards I done did it again. 5 good shots with my pump in the time it took me to get 3 good shots with the semi. In fairness it must be revealed that I was shooting 2 3/4" 1 oz. #4 in the pump gun. Load for the semi was 3", 1 1/4 oz. #3 and the semi has an 18" barrel. Recovery time between shots was a wee bit longer, go figure. Both worked very well but I actually had better patterns with the #4. __________________ "When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil."~~- Thomas Jefferson Roman Catholic, Life Member of American Legion, VFW, Wisconsin Libertarian party, Wi-FORCE, WGO, NRA, JPFO, GOA, SAFand CCRKBA

05-12-2010, 07:55 PM	#12
Hunting Man Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: NW ohio Posts: 49	Re: Semi auto shotgun Shouldn't need a second shot, however, if needed, I would opt for the semi-auto. I also don't put much faith in the pump sound as a deterrent. If the intruder is in my home then I don't want him to know my position. At that point I move to the offensive position and hopefully I win.

05-12-2010, 08:53 PM	#13
jim brady Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,075	Re: Semi auto shotgun Either way, unless you keep one in the chamber, you're going to have to cycle the action to load it. Now if you have anyone in the house other than you - say your wife or kids - keeping a gun with a loaded chamber is not a very good idea. That's a bad newspaper story waiting for a date on it. I've got an old 97 Winchester pump that COULD be kept loaded FAIRLY safely. If the mag tube is loaded and the hammer cocked to the first 'safety' notch, the action locks up - and cannot be racked until the hammer is first let down. But still, I would'nt keep even that one loaded if I had kids or grandkids around. Thing about a shotgun is you should'nt need more than one shot to do the job...... Actually did have the sound of a round chambering keep me from needing to use a gun. That was a .45 I had when I came back from overseas. Worked the late shift - odd hours. A potential burgler attempted to open my apartment door late one night. I was on the other side of the door(I heard the guy sneaking outside my balcony), and I released the slide/chambered a round. All I heard was "patter-patter" of footsteps running away. Last edited by jim brady; 05-12-2010 at 09:01 PM.. Reason: fat fingers

06-01-2010, 06:15 PM	#14
old semperfi Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: i live in southern indiana,old country boy at heart Posts: 1,506	Re: Semi auto shotgun my opinion is that the sound of a pump gun being racked would tell an intruder that you are very serious about your home and property and are willing to defend it.i think that most times when it is some punk it would serve to keep you from killing a 15-16 year old kid.i would prefere to scare someone away long before killing them.once youve taken a life it is something,no matter how justified you can never forget. old semperfi

06-01-2010, 07:15 PM	#15
AngelDeville Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: ABQ Posts: 644	Re: Semi auto shotgun I don't have the time or inclination to pump a damn shotgun. __________________ Why don't guns go off "accidentally" when people aren't around?

06-01-2010, 09:39 PM	#16
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,662	Re: Semi auto shotgun I am a firm believer in making a loud noise that will let the criminal intruder know that you are serious and prepared to defend you life and property. I think the noise should be "BANG", though, and not "rack-rack". I do see where you are coming from, with the "scare the 17-year-old punk away, instead of killing him". His death isn't on your conscience. But, let's just hypothesize, for a moment. David Berkowitz, between July '76 and August '77, did eight shootings, shooting 13 people, and killing six of them. So, let's say (hypothetical) that between shooting #3 and shooting #4, he was trying another one, and was scared off, for some reason. Cop car came along, there were too many people with the intended victim, whatever. Something scared him off, so that victim did not get killed. He went on, however, to kill five more people and wound four others. If, instead of scaring him away at intended shooting #4, he had been killed, then nine people would not have been shot. Just something to think about, when someone suggests that it's better to scare the burglar off. He's got the balls to break into my house in the middle of the night. Now, maybe he ain't got the balls to stand up to me and my dog and my 12 gauge, but what if he had broke into the house across the street, with the 80-year-old lady that lives alone? __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

06-02-2010, 09:29 PM	#18
bcj1755 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: A wretched hive of scum and villiany Posts: 4,357	Re: Semi auto shotgun Semi-auto shotgun? One word...Saiga Man, I need to get me one of those __________________ History is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace, and revolution continue on forever. Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges - Cicero If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. - Samuel Adams

06-03-2010, 11:00 PM	#19
bikeryoda Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Arkansas Posts: 32	Re: Semi auto shotgun I also don't want the intruder knowing where I am... And personally I believe that everyone has to eat the consequences of their actions. If someone has the nerve to break into my house then they better have the nerve to meet their end. I have a Saiga-12 for my HD and keep it loaded with 00 buck... I would choose a semi auto over a pump any day simply because of the speed at which you can fire, and with the Saiga reloading is just as fast. And call me a mall ninja but I've also got a Chaos PorkyPine bayonette in case the intruder miraculously makes it past the lead hahaha... __________________ Is it just me, or does it seem that the U.S. is on its way to Hell in a hand basket? People just don't seem to THINK anymore...

06-05-2010, 10:15 AM	#22
tcox4freedom Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: South Carolina USA Posts: 944	Re: Semi auto shotgun I'm a Saiga 12 guy myself. IMO; the BEST tactical HD shotgun available. Although, I do think AA (or sombody) makes a "Bull Pup" semi-12 that I would like to have. I also agree with EVERYTHING Pinecone, Carver, Old Grump and Alpo have stated! I've been a victim of TWO "home" invasions and I can tell you having to rack the slide 1st is NOT a good idea! IMHO: the BG(s) should only here ONE thing: BANG!! If some of our more liberal friends wish to warn them and yell "GET OUT of MY HOUSE!" Then by all means, feel free to do so. But IMHO, depending on the "sound" of a slide being racked to scare off the BG(s) is a "fools" folly brought to us by Hollywierd. Last edited by tcox4freedom; 06-05-2010 at 10:23 AM..

09-12-2010, 04:39 PM	#23
Recon 173 Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 49	Re: Semi auto shotgun A pump shotgun, to me, equals reliability. As has been said some autos are sensitive to certain ammo. A pump shotgun will shoot it if you get it into the chamber. Same thing for the auto IF the mechanism will feed the shell. A light load in a pump gun will work if the person does their job. But in an autoloader that same shell is a jam.