We knew this - The Firearms Forum

armedandsafe · 07-06-2010, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Lis Wiehl

- FoxNews.com

- July 06, 2010

Why the Justice Department Lawsuit Against Arizona Will Likely Fail

The Arizona law mimics the federal law.

The federal government has just filed suit challenging the state of Arizona’s new anti-illegal immigration law. The basis? The Supremacy Clause, which says that federal law trumps state law.

But that argument should fail in a court of law because the Arizona law mimics the federal law. It basically gives the state a mechanism to enforce federal law, to turn over people police have a reasonable suspicion to believe may be illegal over to the feds.

The Supremacy Clause only comes into play when a state law is “contrary” to a federal law or the Constitution. And courts have ruled that the states have “concurrent authority” when state law only mimics federal law. -- Five federal appeals courts have applied this in context of illegal aliens, upholding states’ rights to arrest illegals.

It is also being reported that the other ground for the legal challenge is racial profiling but the Arizona law specifically prohibits that. It states that the police officers must have a "legal" reason for stopping a person before questioning.

Finally, a 2002 memo from the Department of Justice concluded that state police have “inherent power” to arrest undocumented immigrant for violating federal law. That memo will come back to haunt them now.

Lis Wiehl is a Fox News legal analyst and former federal prosecutor.

We ignorant redneck clingers know this. Why can't the elite educated leaders figure it out?

Pops

lentz · 07-06-2010, 08:31 PM

They know it.They just don't like it.

millwright · 07-06-2010, 08:35 PM

The real "nut on the deal" emerged today ! Seems the USAG/ICE - aka the Obama Administration - are concerned AZ cops will turn up too many cases for them to handle ! Which, I opine, is another way of saying we don't want to curtail the supply of bodies to match the "voters" we've already locked in !

Bottom line is the "Democrat Elites " are going to pursue this case - because their grasp of the political scene is so rooted in history they can't perceive the looming change. They have ample company in the GOP, too !! >MW

199er · 07-06-2010, 08:56 PM

The goal for the Democrats is to not have any 'dead' people voting in future elections.

To accomplish this the Government needs amnesty for the illegals now here and they also plan on dragging there feet on securing the borders so as many illegals as possible can enter our country before they have to 'close the gate'.

I hope the 9th Circuit Court denys the DOJ's challenge to the AZ immigration law.

armedandsafe · 07-06-2010, 09:56 PM

Quote:

I hope the 9th Circuit Court denys the DOJ's challenge to the AZ immigration law.

It will go all the way to SCOTUS, if Arizona has the money to pursue it. The 9th Circus will not deny standing, the 3 judge panel will find in favor against precedent and the full Curcus will not overturn the panel.

"How dare you declare in law that you will uphold and enforce the law!"

Pops

belercous · 07-07-2010, 10:14 PM

I'm a Democrat (not because I agree with them totally, it's just the least bad choice), and am fairly liberal. But for the life of me, I just can't understand what the problem with the AZ law is. (I know, the Supremacy Clause, but that just seems like a pretext)
The Federal Gov. refuses to act. AZ is on the front lines of the immigration problem. AZ acted, because Washington hasn't, but did nothing more than what federal law calls for. This just seems to be a bad move by the administration. Many naturalized hispanics support the law, around 70% of the American public support the law. Its not gonna buy the Democrats votes in Nov. Wtf? Let AZ deal with it until Washington acts. At least they are trying to do something. Congress won't even try, and the border states are supposed to bear the brunt of it and sit on their hands? We won't help you, and we won't let you help yourself? I just don't get it.

millwright · 07-07-2010, 10:32 PM

belercous,

The President stated the border with Mexico was too big and too remote to effectively prevent illegals crossing, and the numbers were too great to do more than target troublesome individuals. If the AZ LEOs effrectively police the border, it makes POTUS look like the opportunistic poltroon he most certainly is..... >MW

199er · 07-08-2010, 12:11 AM

Quote:

The President stated the border with Mexico was too big and too remote to effectively prevent illegals crossing, and the numbers were too great to do more than target troublesome individuals.If the AZ LEOs effectively police the border, it makes POTUS look like the opportunistic poltroon he most certainly is..... >MW

Regardless of how this pending lawsuit comes out the loser will appeal and the issue will be further drawn out. Meanwhile illegal immigrants will continue to infiltrate our country and our citizens distain towards the current administration will fester even more.

Obama's procrastination on this issue is further endangering our country and, unfortunately, because issue has been treated as a political issue rather than a security issue, the Republicans aren't without blame in how this situation was allowed to reach this point.

Gee wiz!!!................I guess because the President said our border with Mexico was too big and too remote to effectively prevent illegals crossing he expects us citizens to just give up without trying???????????? Yea right!

How about deploying some military 'passive' electronic surveillance capability to support the AZ BP? And because they are short handed we should also deploy few air and ground US Army Cavalry Squadrons to conduct "screening operations" along the border. Air and ground Cavalry units are very mobile and Screening Operations are a basic Cavalry mission. If a deadly force situation arose the Cav would have the "organic assets" to netrualize any armed drug dealers or smuglers. If and when the Mexican government complains about us protecing our borders with deadly force (when provoked), our answer should be......"when you get your side of the border closed you will be doing all you can to secure the safety of your citizens".

This may not be the best answer but it may well come to be the only option we have other than continuing to turn a blind eye and doing nothing.

JBozeman · 07-08-2010, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 199er

I guess because the President said our border with Mexico was too big and too remote to effectively prevent illegals crossing he expects us citizens to just give up without trying???????????? Yea right!

Eventually he will say, "Don't mess with my future votes"! I wonder how borders will handle the stampede going the other way will look like when they find the collapsed economy Washington is purposefully producing.

We're hanging by a thread here and it can't stretch much more! If we don't just give up, all across America, we will be force to give up!

Sorry I'm so negative but the future is not bright anymore!

wpage · 07-08-2010, 05:40 AM

Big gov says do as I say not as I do to Az...

carver · 07-08-2010, 07:34 AM

I say that if AZ needs funds to secure their border, I will be one of the first to send money. If they need bodies to help secure the border AZ should ask for volunteeres, and again I will be one of the first to step up. As for as the Lawsuit Against Arizona by our own Government is concerned, I hope the fools get laughed out of court. If that don't happen then there will be a lot of unhappy people in America.

Terry_P · 07-08-2010, 08:36 AM

Lets see the DOJ won't enforce the voter intimidation laws against the black panthers, the press secretary was asked yesterday why the administration didn't didn't bring suit against "sanctuary cities" that are clearly in violation of federal law and he did not have any answer, immigration won't enforce immigration laws against illegals to the point that the great state of Arizona out of absolute desperation had to take matters into their own hands and now the justice department acts the quickest it ever has under Obama to sue Arizona. I see a pattern here of abuse of power and lack of respect for the US Constitution. The case is building but the political make up of the current congress needs to change dramatically.

carver · 07-08-2010, 08:40 AM

Remember in November!

red14 · 07-08-2010, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry_P

Lets see the DOJ won't enforce the voter intimidation laws against the black panthers, the press secretary was asked yesterday why the administration didn't didn't bring suit against "sanctuary cities" that are clearly in violation of federal law and he did not have any answer, immigration won't enforce immigration laws against illegals to the point that the great state of Arizona out of absolute desperation had to take matters into their own hands and now the justice department acts the quickest it ever has under Obama to sue Arizona. I see a pattern here of abuse of power and lack of respect for the US Constitution. The case is building but the political make up of the current congress needs to change dramatically.

Maobama did act real fast to fire the bad general.

Eddie N · 07-08-2010, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carver

I say that if AZ needs funds to secure their border, I will be one of the first to send money. If they need bodies to help secure the border AZ should ask for volunteeres, and again I will be one of the first to step up. As for as the Lawsuit Against Arizona by our own Government is concerned, I hope the fools get laughed out of court. If that don't happen then there will be a lot of unhappy people in America.

+1!!

armedandsafe · 07-08-2010, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carver

I say that if AZ needs funds to secure their border, I will be one of the first to send money. If they need bodies to help secure the border AZ should ask for volunteeres, and again I will be one of the first to step up. As for as the Lawsuit Against Arizona by our own Government is concerned, I hope the fools get laughed out of court. If that don't happen then there will be a lot of unhappy people in America.

http://www.examiner.com/x-39124-Prov...ons-on-Twitter

Sic 'em!!!

Pops

Trouble 45-70 · 07-08-2010, 01:13 PM

The President has said in so many ways that he can't protect our borders and he has a Trillion dollar budget. Protecting our borders from foreign invasion is one of his Constitutionally mandated duties. Looks to me that incompetence might just be an impeachable offense. Some of his other actions might just be Treasonous. I certainly question his close association with known Communists whose reason for existence is the destruction of the U. S. Constitution and the overthrow of our Govt.

carver · 07-08-2010, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by armedandsafe

http://www.examiner.com/x-39124-Prov...ons-on-Twitter

Sic 'em!!!

Pops

The link you posted takes you to this link: https://az.gov/app/keepazsafe/donati...ormation.xhtml

Here you can donate.

07-06-2010, 08:31 PM	#2
lentz Former Guest Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 606	Re: We knew this They know it.They just don't like it.

07-06-2010, 08:35 PM	#3
millwright Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,440	Re: We knew this The real "nut on the deal" emerged today ! Seems the USAG/ICE - aka the Obama Administration - are concerned AZ cops will turn up too many cases for them to handle ! Which, I opine, is another way of saying we don't want to curtail the supply of bodies to match the "voters" we've already locked in ! Bottom line is the "Democrat Elites " are going to pursue this case - because their grasp of the political scene is so rooted in history they can't perceive the looming change. They have ample company in the GOP, too !! >MW

07-06-2010, 08:56 PM	#4
199er Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Columbia SC Posts: 627	Re: We knew this The goal for the Democrats is to not have any 'dead' people voting in future elections. To accomplish this the Government needs amnesty for the illegals now here and they also plan on dragging there feet on securing the borders so as many illegals as possible can enter our country before they have to 'close the gate'. I hope the 9th Circuit Court denys the DOJ's challenge to the AZ immigration law.

07-07-2010, 10:14 PM	#6
belercous Former Guest Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 195	Re: We knew this I'm a Democrat (not because I agree with them totally, it's just the least bad choice), and am fairly liberal. But for the life of me, I just can't understand what the problem with the AZ law is. (I know, the Supremacy Clause, but that just seems like a pretext) The Federal Gov. refuses to act. AZ is on the front lines of the immigration problem. AZ acted, because Washington hasn't, but did nothing more than what federal law calls for. This just seems to be a bad move by the administration. Many naturalized hispanics support the law, around 70% of the American public support the law. Its not gonna buy the Democrats votes in Nov. Wtf? Let AZ deal with it until Washington acts. At least they are trying to do something. Congress won't even try, and the border states are supposed to bear the brunt of it and sit on their hands? We won't help you, and we won't let you help yourself? I just don't get it.

07-07-2010, 10:32 PM	#7
millwright Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,440	Re: We knew this belercous, The President stated the border with Mexico was too big and too remote to effectively prevent illegals crossing, and the numbers were too great to do more than target troublesome individuals. If the AZ LEOs effrectively police the border, it makes POTUS look like the opportunistic poltroon he most certainly is..... >MW

07-08-2010, 05:40 AM	#10
wpage Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1,471	Re: We knew this Big gov says do as I say not as I do to Az... __________________ "You shall recieve power" Acts 1:8 W

07-08-2010, 07:34 AM	#11
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,288	Re: We knew this I say that if AZ needs funds to secure their border, I will be one of the first to send money. If they need bodies to help secure the border AZ should ask for volunteeres, and again I will be one of the first to step up. As for as the Lawsuit Against Arizona by our own Government is concerned, I hope the fools get laughed out of court. If that don't happen then there will be a lot of unhappy people in America. __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

07-08-2010, 08:36 AM	#12
Terry_P Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: NH Posts: 2,513	Re: We knew this Lets see the DOJ won't enforce the voter intimidation laws against the black panthers, the press secretary was asked yesterday why the administration didn't didn't bring suit against "sanctuary cities" that are clearly in violation of federal law and he did not have any answer, immigration won't enforce immigration laws against illegals to the point that the great state of Arizona out of absolute desperation had to take matters into their own hands and now the justice department acts the quickest it ever has under Obama to sue Arizona. I see a pattern here of abuse of power and lack of respect for the US Constitution. The case is building but the political make up of the current congress needs to change dramatically. __________________ NRA and NAHC Life "Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms." -Aristotle

07-08-2010, 08:40 AM	#13
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,288	Re: We knew this Remember in November! __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

07-08-2010, 01:13 PM	#17
Trouble 45-70 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: NE Ar. W. of Black River Contributor Posts: 2,703	Re: We knew this The President has said in so many ways that he can't protect our borders and he has a Trillion dollar budget. Protecting our borders from foreign invasion is one of his Constitutionally mandated duties. Looks to me that incompetence might just be an impeachable offense. Some of his other actions might just be Treasonous. I certainly question his close association with known Communists whose reason for existence is the destruction of the U. S. Constitution and the overthrow of our Govt. __________________ Psalm 12 verse 8: The wicked walk on every side when the vilest men are exalted.