How to tell a genuine nazi navy mark on a pistol?

[The Count]

thinking about getting a WWII luger or similar with the eagle/swastika over an M. have researched this a bit and it seems that there are some fakes out there... how to tell? my gut feeling would say if its stamped it is probably original but maybe somebody here is an expert...


http://pictures.auctionarms.com/573/...20100724095343

is this real or fake....??

[Jim K]

It looks good, but the gun should also have "N" or "O" and a number on the front grip strap and on the magazine, and be in the early Navy serial range of about 545xxx-566xxx.

There is dispute, but it is probable that those guns were not contracted for and thus were not marked at the factory. If that is the case, they were just purchased out of factory stock and marked by the Navy as received, so there is no rigid serial number range. The eagle/M was done with a pantograph, the property number with stamps, making counterfeiting easy. (Someone should have had a talk with those Kriegsmarine guys about that, but they probably didn't care much about American collectors 70 years in the future.)

FWIW, the "N" and "O" stand for Nordsee and Ostsee (North Sea and Baltic), the two German Naval districts. The "O" marked pistols are much less common here both because the Ostsee fleet was smaller, and because U.S. forces didn't get into that area.

Jim

[paradox998]

Looks different than mine. The proof mark is not the same as the one on my K date luger. Here is a picture:

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...e24reduced.jpg

[Jim K]

Hi, Paradox,

The eagle on your Luger is that used by the Navy under the Wehrmacht Waffenamt; later the use of the eagle and swastika was dictated. Both are correct, but for different periods. Just FWIW, I have said those Navy marks were pantographed, but they were probably acid etched, a simpler process. A microscopic examination would tell for sure. They are not stamped; a steel stamp applied to a Luger in that location would crush the steel and disable the safety.

Jim

[paradox998]

Thanks Jim,

I appreciate the information. Always something new to learn.

[valbehaved]

Jim:
You were right the first time... Those KM markings were pantographed and never acid etched...Acid etching process was always used at the factory prior to blueing(PPK and PP slide legends, early P-38 legends, early pre-war Radom slide legends, etc), while the pantograph was used at the navy depot/repair shops after the blueing by the factory...

[Jim K]

Thanks, valbehaved. Acid etching can be done after bluing, though, it just takes more care, but I think a pantograph would be more likely at a depot level.

Jim