Brass hardness after one shooting?

[LDBennett]

How much does one firing (once fired brass) change the hardness of the neck of a case?

Here's the situation:

We are wildcating 50BMG brass to 50DTC (the only 50BMG based 50 caliber legally allowed in CA). I have one hundred once fired military 50 BMG (LC) cases that need to be sized to 50 DTC and then fire formed to 50 DTC. The neck gets pushed back about 0.100 inches. I was going to anneal the cases first but annealing is not as easy as I first thought and when done wrong can ruin the brass by making it too soft. The load in 50 BMG is huge and just about matches that in a WWII hand grenade. That is nothing to fool around with!

Several reports here indicate people do annealing wrong and are ruining the brass but have YET to pay the price for the wrong process, in most cases. I do not want to risk it in 50 BMG/50 DTC cartridges. I know how to do it correctly but am still worried that I will over heat the cases. So I bought 100 new case for now but would like to eventually be able to use the LC brass.

With these once fired cases how important is annealing? Can I expect splits if I don't anneal or is the brass soft enough after only one shooting to survive the neck being pushed back about a tenth of an inch and fire formed to 50 DTC?

LDBennett

[Lee C.]

LD, If it was me yes i'd anneal the cases befor redoing them. I've seen win. and other brass split the first go around. I have never used LC brass and know nothing about it. If it's annealed when you get it new, then i wouldn't worry about it at all.If it holds the right size after you resize it it might be ok. But your the one in the end to make that call. Good luck with it.

[The_Rifleman]

Originally Posted by LDBennett

Several reports here indicate people do annealing wrong and are ruining the brass

That is one thing that no one will ever agree on. Here are points to ponder.

1) If the brass is too hard, they will fail by a split neck sooner or later.

2) If the brass annealing fails to soften the brass, they will fail by a split neck sooner or later.

3) If you anneal and soften the neck/shoulder area the case will last longer.

4) If you anneal and the whole case softens, the case fails deeper in the chamber, (dangerous.)

5) If you anneal the way my Hornady manual describes, (submerged in water,) the body will remain hard.

Any annealing you do with the body of the case in water is going to either make the brass the same or better.
I think a half baked annealing job is better than not annealing; as long as the body is submerged in water. When the annealing compromises the case body hardness, that is when the trouble arises.


Try it on some 30-06 cases or what have you, first. Get a feel for it.
I trust my annealing process completely. Over 30 firings on both my 30-06 and 30-30 cases and still counting. I've only retired cases for loose primers in the last 6 months, (about 2 months short of my annealing history.)

[Popgunner]

My .02 is that your brass is already annealed from the factory. It's annealed better than you will be capable of doing it. The goal isn't to get the softest brass because mushy brass doesn't live long. The goal is to have tough maleable brass & that's what you have in once fired brass. Work hardening takes several firing/sizing cycles.

[LDBennett]

Popgunner:

Thanks, that is the answer I was looking for. After I thought about it for awhile I found it hard to believe that once fired brass would be so hardened that it could not be sized from 50 BMG down to 50 DTC and then fire formed successfully.

I'll try sizing some of the LC brass and see how hard it is to size. The new brass was no problem at all in my super hefty RCBS press made for 50 BMG.

LDBennett

[LDBennett]

I sized all 50 of the once fired LC brass (did NOT anneal!) with no problems. We'll see if we loose any with fire forming.

LDBennett

[The_Rifleman]

Originally Posted by LDBennett

I sized all 50 of the once fired LC brass (did NOT anneal!) with no problems. We'll see if we loose any with fire forming.

LDBennett

I don't think you will have a problem until maybe 10 shots without annealing... and the problem will most likely be a split neck, no harm done.

I hope you didn't take my thoughts on the statement "do annealing wrong and are ruining the brass" as an indication that you needed to anneal now. I anneal after 7 times fired for all my bottle-necked cartridges.

By all means, if you do not feel comfortable with annealing, don't do it.