Why smaller charges with lead? - The Firearms Forum

LesterPTelestrat · 08-26-2010, 08:19 AM

Is the only reason to load a smaller charge with lead cast vs. FMJ to reduce the chance of leading in the barrel? What other concerns are there with shooting lead?

Thank you for comments/feedback.

gdmoody · 08-26-2010, 09:47 AM

Personally, the leading problem is the only reason I keep any lead bullet very low velocity (less than 900fps).

mikld · 08-26-2010, 10:52 AM

A lot of times the velocity must be kept down to prevent leading. When shooting lead bullets, bullet to bore fit is essential. You need to slug your barrel and shoot bullets .002" + over the bore size. Bullet hardness plays a large part in leading the bore; soft swaged bullets almost always leave lead in the barrel. Bullet lube comes in several styles/formulas and should be matched to the particular bullet style/caliber/velocity. Just a 'Reader's Digest" version answer, so I'd suggest Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook for more info.

Alpo · 08-26-2010, 11:34 AM

I believe there is also more friction with lead. So a charge that might be safe with a jacketed bullet would not be with lead, as the increased friction would raise pressures. This has nothing to do with leading. 45 ACP, for example, is going less than 900 fps. Won't be any leading, but lead bullet charges will be lower than jacketed.

Accurate Arms loading manual, for example, for 45 ACP, lists a max charge of 5.6 grains of AA#2 under a 230 grain lead bullet, for a speed of 870 fps. Max for a 230 grain FMJ, however, is 6.1 for a speed of 874 fps. Half a grain more powder, for the same velocity.

JLA · 08-26-2010, 02:49 PM

lead doesnt require as much powder to get going. Its a more efficient bullet medium than copper jackets

LDBennett · 08-26-2010, 03:28 PM

Jacketed bullets are harder to move through a barrel than cast or swedged lead bullets. It therefore takes more powder to get to the same velocity.

Lead bullets can leave leading in the barrel if pushed too fast down the barrel. But lead is easier on the bore and a gun barrel will probably never wear out if all you ever shoot in it is lead bullets (meaning cast or swedged).

I hate digging out leading in the barrel. I gave up on cast or swedged bullets (with one exception, my S&W Model 52 that uses only 147 gr hollow base wad cutters pushed all the way flush with the end of the case). So for pistols or revolvers I either use bulk jacketed bullets from Winchester or Remington, or plated Rainier bullets. The latter has a flashing of copper on them that precludes leading. Others make similar such bullets today.

LDBennett

AngelDeville · 08-26-2010, 03:43 PM

My .30 cal 180gr lead bullets routinely leave my barrel at about 2600fps.

The secret is proper bullet to bore fit, proper lube, AND an alloy that is not too hard.

LDBennett · 08-26-2010, 04:20 PM

AngelDeville:

I don't cast my own bullets (been there, done that, don't like casting bullets at all). So getting the correct diameter bullet of the correct alloy is impossible for me. That's why I stick with jacketed and plated bullets. I also do not like digging lead out of barrels (been there, done that, won't do it anymore). I respect people who do get good performance out of lead bullets in rifles with no leading but that's not my game.

LDBennett

LesterPTelestrat · 08-26-2010, 10:31 PM

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. Very much appreciated.

08-26-2010, 08:19 AM	#1
LesterPTelestrat V.I.P. Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 65	Why smaller charges with lead? Is the only reason to load a smaller charge with lead cast vs. FMJ to reduce the chance of leading in the barrel? What other concerns are there with shooting lead? Thank you for comments/feedback. --> Last edited by LesterPTelestrat; 08-26-2010 at 08:20 AM..

08-26-2010, 10:52 AM	#3
mikld Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 577	Re: Why smaller charges with lead? A lot of times the velocity must be kept down to prevent leading. When shooting lead bullets, bullet to bore fit is essential. You need to slug your barrel and shoot bullets .002" + over the bore size. Bullet hardness plays a large part in leading the bore; soft swaged bullets almost always leave lead in the barrel. Bullet lube comes in several styles/formulas and should be matched to the particular bullet style/caliber/velocity. Just a 'Reader's Digest" version answer, so I'd suggest Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook for more info. __________________ My Anchor is holding fast.

08-26-2010, 11:34 AM	#4
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,771	Re: Why smaller charges with lead? I believe there is also more friction with lead. So a charge that might be safe with a jacketed bullet would not be with lead, as the increased friction would raise pressures. This has nothing to do with leading. 45 ACP, for example, is going less than 900 fps. Won't be any leading, but lead bullet charges will be lower than jacketed. Accurate Arms loading manual, for example, for 45 ACP, lists a max charge of 5.6 grains of AA#2 under a 230 grain lead bullet, for a speed of 870 fps. Max for a 230 grain FMJ, however, is 6.1 for a speed of 874 fps. Half a grain more powder, for the same velocity. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

08-26-2010, 02:49 PM	#5
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,398	Re: Why smaller charges with lead? lead doesnt require as much powder to get going. Its a more efficient bullet medium than copper jackets __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF! Last edited by JLA; 08-26-2010 at 02:50 PM..

08-26-2010, 03:28 PM	#6
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,754	Re: Why smaller charges with lead? Jacketed bullets are harder to move through a barrel than cast or swedged lead bullets. It therefore takes more powder to get to the same velocity. Lead bullets can leave leading in the barrel if pushed too fast down the barrel. But lead is easier on the bore and a gun barrel will probably never wear out if all you ever shoot in it is lead bullets (meaning cast or swedged). I hate digging out leading in the barrel. I gave up on cast or swedged bullets (with one exception, my S&W Model 52 that uses only 147 gr hollow base wad cutters pushed all the way flush with the end of the case). So for pistols or revolvers I either use bulk jacketed bullets from Winchester or Remington, or plated Rainier bullets. The latter has a flashing of copper on them that precludes leading. Others make similar such bullets today. LDBennett

08-26-2010, 09:47 AM	#2
gdmoody Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Northeast Georgia Contributor Posts: 6,403	Re: Why smaller charges with lead? Personally, the leading problem is the only reason I keep any lead bullet very low velocity (less than 900fps). __________________ NRA Endowment Member GeorgiaCarry.Org Member Retired US Army Postal Worker Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin'.....author unknown (but obviously brilliant)

08-26-2010, 03:43 PM	#7
AngelDeville Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: ABQ Posts: 644	Re: Why smaller charges with lead? My .30 cal 180gr lead bullets routinely leave my barrel at about 2600fps. The secret is proper bullet to bore fit, proper lube, AND an alloy that is not too hard. __________________ Why don't guns go off "accidentally" when people aren't around?

08-26-2010, 04:20 PM	#8
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,754	Re: Why smaller charges with lead? AngelDeville: I don't cast my own bullets (been there, done that, don't like casting bullets at all). So getting the correct diameter bullet of the correct alloy is impossible for me. That's why I stick with jacketed and plated bullets. I also do not like digging lead out of barrels (been there, done that, won't do it anymore). I respect people who do get good performance out of lead bullets in rifles with no leading but that's not my game. LDBennett

08-26-2010, 10:31 PM	#9
LesterPTelestrat V.I.P. Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 65	Re: Why smaller charges with lead? Thanks for all the feedback everyone. Very much appreciated.