What's best for first gun?

[Stoop14]

I live up in Canada and am wondering what my first gun should be, a 22lr or that w one? A 410 shotgun? A 306? Pretty much just for small game and targets for the first year next year will be moose ect..

[johnlives4christ]

the best to start with is a 22LR if you dont have a lot of experience with larger guns. because a 22 lr doesnt kick very much it allows you to develop good marksmanship skills and habits. with a gun that kicks hard and makes a roaring boom a new shooter, while they might not be afraid of the gun, often will develop a flinch.

the other main reason for starting with a 22 is cost of ammunition. i dont know what the cost of ammo is in canada, but around here (kentucky) 500 rounds of 22Lr is 20 dollars, while 30-06 ammo is 1 dollar a shot. so there is no way most people can afford to practice as much as needed to develop good shooting habits and marksmanship ability when faced with the astronomical cost of ammunition.

but for yourself, or for anyone else reading this... dont get the impression a 22 is just for beginners. seasoned, veteran shooters love their 22's. a 22 is not just a training tool, it is also perfect for hunting many varieties of small game, it is quite accurate and normally, very reliable. but the main reason people shoot 22's is that they are FUN.

when it comes time to hunt moose... well, you'll need something larger. i dont know much about moose so i ant really give a good suggestion for rifle or caliber.

welcome to the forum and God bless you

~john

[mtnboomer]

John is absolutely correct!

BTW, a .410 is NOT a beginner's gun! The small shot charges make it difficult to hit with. They are actually guns for well-seasoned and experienced shooters.

[Hatch]

I like John's suggestion, a .22 rifle is a great gun to learn basics on, and also for pistols. Same reasons he cited, ammo cost, availability and it fits your needs for now, small game and learning skills

[Stoop14]

Thanks for the welcome, I'll mostly be hunting grouse, maybe some rabbits whats the best gun for grouse hunting? I was told a shut gun is better to hunt grouse with? Also my gun dealer showed me the 10/22 ruger and a cz 455 standard, but he has lots of different 22's like marlin 795 semi auto also a m60, mind you the 455 standard is about 2x the cost of the ruger and martins. What would be best?

[johnlives4christ]

a shotgun is best for bird hunting. while if it is legal and safe to do so where you'll be hunting it is possible to hunt birds with a 22. it is not something most people are capable of doing.

the ruger 10-22 is an excellent gun, it has many parts available for it. the marlin 795 and 60 are also good guns. all of the model 60s i have seen have the comb too high. (where you rest your cheek) if it's too tall you'll have to scrunch your face down on the stock to see the sights properly, it will be uncomfortable and will hurt your cheek. so with that gun it's best to use a scope in my opinion.

i would go with the ruger 10-22. you'll be able to scope it if you desire later on, but the iron sights are good solid, usable sights

[Stoop14]

what about the bolt action cz 455?

[CampingJosh]

I have a Ruger 10/22 like John suggested, and I love it, but I wouldn't recommend it for a first gun. It's a lot of fun to shoot, but making one particularly accurate is expensive, and autoloading firearms tend to lead beginners to fire more shots to make a hit rather than working on accuracy (I've found myself prone to doing this, too, and I've been shooting since my age wasn't even two digits).

I would recommend a good bolt-action or lever-action .22 LR as a first firearm. CZ makes great guns, but they're not inexpensive. Mossberg and Savage both make less pricey guns, but they're not as good.

I don't know if they're widely available in Canada, but used Remington, Marlin, Winchester guns can be found here for as little as $75 or less.

[johnlives4christ]

the cz 455 will serve you very good if you dont mind the extra cost. but josh is right. having a semi auto does tend to lead to wasting ammo instead of learning to make the first shot count every time.

[Stoop14]

ya i keep reading that the 10/22 are great but to make really accurate you need to spend allot of money in after market prices, i just want something out of the box i can through a scope on and go have some fun targets and small game. Also i know this is the .22 forum but what is a good bang for your buck shotgun to get for grouse hunting?

[johnlives4christ]

dont let josh or anyone else fool you. a ruger is plenty accurate out of the box. super accurate is not needed for hunting, plinking and having fun. an out of the box ruger will be able to hit a 1" target at 50 yards. probably with cheap ammo, but definitely with good ammo. but a super accurate modded ruger will shoot a 1/4 inch group at 50 yards.

just starting out shooting you're not going to be able to shoot good enough to utilize a super accurate gun. an average gun will probably shoot better then you are able to. i can hit a bottle cap off hand with a 22 rifle at 25 yards. while that isn't amazing it is a lot better then most people. but still isn't as good as most guns can shoot. off a rest i can test a gun for accuracy but when hunting or plinking you dont have a rest.

for an inexpensive shotgun for grouse hunting i would suggest an NEF single shot shotgun. But if you think the gun will pull home defense duty as well i would recommend a pump.

the single shot NEF would run around 100 around here used
a maverick pump would run no more then 150
a remington 870 is around 250
a mossberg around 200-250

all these are local prices for used guns around here. but any of these guns i would feel comfortable with hunting or defending my life with. the single shot will not give you a fast follow up shot, but it is extremely rugged and hard to break even in the back country.

[BillM]

You might want to think ahead to your "moose rifle". It's probably going
to be a 30 caliber or larger. Bolt action is probably the most common,
although there are good lever action, pump and semi-auto's that would
work nicely.

Figure out what your moose gun is going to be next year, then get a 22
that is the same action type, and as close to the size and weight as you
can get.

No offense--but it sounds like you are a total newbie to guns. You have any family or friends that shoot? Any shooting ranges locally that offer basic
gun training? You can get a lot from forums like this, the internet in general,
magazines and books----but nothing beats a little hands on experience.

[Stoop14]

Nope don't know anyone

[CampingJosh]

Originally Posted by johnlives4christ

dont let josh or anyone else fool you. a ruger is plenty accurate out of the box. super accurate is not needed for hunting, plinking and having fun. an out of the box ruger will be able to hit a 1" target at 50 yards. probably with cheap ammo, but definitely with good ammo. but a super accurate modded ruger will shoot a 1/4 inch group at 50 yards.

Oh, I'm happy with the accuracy of my 10/22; I didn't mean to give that impression. But my 60+ year old Remington 512 is more accurate. And it's definitely the better choice for teaching accuracy.

As far as shotguns, I'm preferential to the Remington 870, but my grandfather was a Remington man, and it wore off on me. The Mossbergs are also quite nice. 12 or 20 gauge either one, with slugs, will take a moose if you're close enough to hit well. (Not your best option, but it will do in a pinch.)

[johnlives4christ]

i had a remington 41 for a few years. i sure regret selling it too. it was very accurate. much more then a stock 10-22.

[kingcuke]

Depending on your particular personal parameters in the need, use, $$ categories and availability the Rossi Wizard platform might be a place to start. True they are single shots, but the ability to switch from rimfire, to shotgun, to centerfire, even to blackpowder by switching barrels might get you everything you need to start. A single shot certainly tends to focus one on accuracy. I've no personal experience with the Wizard but it might give you both a shotgun and rifle for a reasonable cost.
Trust me if you become a firearm enthusiast your first gun won't be your last.

[johnlives4christ]

also the NEF brand makes a handi rifle which can be converted to take shotgun barrels. dunno if this kind of thing is allowed in canada

[Popgunner]

You can't go wrong with a 10/22 rifle. plenty acurrate.

I don't know what the situation is in Canada with pawn shops & firearms but I recently bought a slightly used CZ-452lux for $199us. We were just in Alberta & BC & the border guards made me leave my .357 at a pawn shop accross the street on the US side. My bro in law who lives at Lethbridge told be .22lr ammo is more restricted there because it's thought of as handgun ammo.

The same bro in law gave up all his handguns & most of his rifles but he kept a Ruger 10/22, a Rem 870 12 guage shotgun & a SMLE rifle in .303 Brit for big game hunting. He figured those were the basics. They were making him get a letter from the head police guy every time he wanted to transport his handguns from his gun club. He left them at the club until he sold 'em.

[jim brady]

A good first gun, and one that's reasonably accurate out of the box would be a Ruger 10-22. Several things to consider: They are easy to mount a scope on; .22 ammo is cheap and the Ruger will handle most well; very good accuracy even with the iron sights; if you change your mind about hunting or getting into shooting, the re-sale value of a Ruger is really good.

Don't know if they still make them, but Savage used to make a pretty nice 20 guage over .22 long rifle combo. Just a thought. Be a decent grouse/rabbit gun.

I understand that the .303 is still popular in Canada. As far as high-power, that might be your best bet depending on ammunition availability. Some of the sporterized .303s are really nice, and some are really ugly. When you move on to high power that might be the way to go.

[Old Grump]

Savage, Remington or CZ bolt action, cheaper to shoot, iron sights will force you to learn to shoot and you will do it without the need for a lot of pricey magazines for your gun. Suggested first shotgun is a single shot break action or pump action 20 gauge. Big enough to do most anything a 12 will do and easier to get your prey than with a .410 or 28 gauge and easier on you than a 12 gauge.

Just dos centavos from an old dinosaur.

[Kent Detective]

My humble advice -

A nice CZ/BRNO 452 with an "American" wood stock. About as good as it gets for Rimfire. A quality European made rifle which is accurate and easy to shoot. It's bolt-action so is reliable too. A 452 here in the UK is about £400 so I'd imagine in the states it can be obtained for less than $300 which is amazing value for money.

Compared to a U.S made Marlin's or Ruger's (which are also top performers and great bargains) the CZ wins hands down.

I looked at the following rifles myself and chose the BRNO -

1. CZ/BRNO Model 452
2. Marlin 795
3. Ruger 10/22

Best wishes and stay SAFE!
Neil

[pawn]

+1 for CZ/BRNO bolt action 22lrs. I own many of both and believe they are about the best you can get per dollar spent. CZ 452's are still commercially available but are eventually giving way to the CZ 455 which allows for changing barrels of like rimfire cartridges (22lr to 17 Mach2 or 22 WMR to 17 HMR)

IMHO the BRNO's are even better than today's CZ rifles. They are no longer produced but are available used from numerous sources. Comparitively, BRNO's are not well known in the US while they have been imported into Canada, UK, Australia etc for many years. I own a Model #1, #2, #3 and #4 and would never willingly part with any of them. Model 3's and 5's are the most difficult to find here in the US. I suspect you could find a nice Model #1 or #2 without too much trouble in Canada.

Enjoy whichever rifle you choose

[raydcarter]

I'd suggest getting similar to what you might be using down the road. If you figure you'll probably be hunting with a bolt action, then get a bolt action - not a semi-auto. Similarly for pistols - if you'll be using a semi-auto, then don't get a revolver.

[Stoop14]

Thanks for all the help guys I'm just a little torn between a cz 455 or 10/22

[johnlives4christ]

i dont see any problem in having various action types. although i do kinda favor lever guns.

while a bolt gun in 22 is nice... especially with a scope, a 25 round banana mag for the ruger 10-22 makes it a viable option for laying down some firepower lol