Holographic vs. Red Dot Sight - The Firearms Forum

Bubblehead · 10-12-2010, 10:58 AM

I want to put an optic sight on my AR but I don't know the advantage of a holographic vs. red dot sight. Neither sight has any magnification. The only advantage I see to a "holo" is the faster acquisition time for CQB situations. Is there any other difference? What about distance shooting; 100 - 200 yards? Do either of these have an advantage over the other?

Thanks,

John

Gene Seward · 10-13-2010, 06:22 PM

I have the Eotech 512 and can not fault it in anyway. I did get the one that uses AA batteries cause you can get those anywhere at anytime, even a quik mart. I have found that the older my eyes get the easier I see with the Eotech. I think that they are extremely rugged and if the U.S. forces use them in combat that is good enough for me. Hope I have helped in someway. Good Luck

Zhurh · 10-13-2010, 11:01 PM

I looked at a few scopes in Fairbanks a few months back. A 512, that new Leupold CQ/T, and a couple different Acogs. I have a 4X32 acog red dot/ horseshoe ghost ring with B&C lines, a couple cheap leupolds, and old aimpoints on my AR's and mini-14's. I killed a caribou at over 600 yards with the Acog this fall; hit it twice out of 5 quick shots with 6.8 and went down. I really luv that ghost ring for quick shooting.

When I looked at them, that Eotech impressed me, it just looked the best with my eyes.
I looked through that Eotech at objects 150-200 yards and felt confident at that distance. Waiting on an armalite 338 federal to come in. Thinking on getting an eotech for close range with one of those dual sidemounts for another standard scope. I looked at the eotech site's reticles and noticed they had one with 2 red dots. For hunting, on an AR platform, which eotech is everybody buying?

Jay · 10-14-2010, 05:26 AM

...the HUD type sights do not require that the dot be centered. Also, be aware that too large a dot size may cover your target, at longer distances.

Zhurh · 10-14-2010, 07:14 AM

The ghost ring on my acog covers the 8 inch target circle at 100 yards, the dot a little over the bulls eye. When I shot that caribou (over 600 yards) the horseshoe ghost ring covered entire animal, hard to really aim precisely but I guess that's the trade off for quick target acquisition. It sure is nice for quick shots just the same.

I have an ancient aimpoint that I bought around 1990, still works like new, uses 2032 battery and is fine out to about 2-3 hundred yards on a deer sized object but one really needs some practice to get good with it I believe.

Leaning towards one of those Eotech's myself, just don't know which one? With all the new calibers coming out on AR platforms, I'll find something it works great on I guess.

wyoredot · 10-14-2010, 06:30 PM

there is a cool little magnifier that sits behind the red dot and provides about 2 or 4 power magnification. Optics Planet carries them I think. Surf around a bit and you might like one of those.

Bubblehead · 10-15-2010, 08:08 AM

Based on the replies, and other research, I think I want a red dot, not a holographic optic. So now that leaves me with this question. What is the difference between what I will call the "short tube" and "long tube models"?

"Short tube" being those stubby little guys you sometimes see on shotguns and the "long tube" are those like the Aimpoint "Comp" series. Is there any functional difference? Is any style better for hunting, plinking, CQB?

LDBennett · 10-17-2010, 07:38 AM

Holographic vs. Red Dot Sight:

The difference is in the way the image is formed. The holographic displays using a laser and the Red Dot uses a Light Emitting Diode. The cost differential is large. Red Dots require centralization of the dot in the field of view for the most precise sighting and I think that is not the case with the holographic sights (??). I have found for pistol or short range rifle shooting with a Red Dot, that getting the dot perfectly centered is not required as, at those ranges, it seems to effect the sighting accuracy little. But at longer ranges the effect magnifies. Also the holographic image dot or reticule can be smaller, sharper, and include details other than just a big red blob that blooms with increases in intensity.

Long verses short tube Red Dot:

Red Dots work by reflecting the image of a LED off the coated backside of the front lens element. The longer the distance from the LED to that reflective surface, the more precision the sighting, just as longer sight planes with iron sight gives more precise sighting. It depends on exactly how the Red Dot is made but "generally" the longer tube Red Dots give more precision sighting.

I'd love to have one of the commercial version holographic sights but so far the pricing has kept me from buying one and they are a bit large for guns other than tactical rifles. I have several Red Dot and love using them. The UltaDot's are my favorite.

LDBennett

Jay · 10-17-2010, 07:42 AM

Informative read....

http://www.bullseyepistol.com/dotsight.htm

and another....

http://www.articlesbase.com/sports-a...rk-290611.html

courville · 11-07-2011, 08:45 PM

I have Burris fast fire 2 on my SAR-1. As small as it is it is very effective. It's lite,waterproof ,and left on has a 4 year battery life.

NRA_guy · 11-08-2011, 06:05 AM

I have wondered the same thing, OP.

I have several red dots but no holo sights.

One thing about red dots: many users will see a dot that is NOT round. Each user will see something different.

I thought it was the cheap red dot sight but when you rotate the sight (can be mounted on your gun---just rotate the gun itself) sideways 90 degrees to the right, then upside down, then 90 degrees to the left you will see that the irregularity stays oriented in the same way!!!

Now look at it through your other eye and you will see a different irregularity.

Sketch what you see with a pen on paper and get a friend to sketch what he sees. You will see stark differences in the irregular shape of the red dot.

This is because of differences in our eyes---not the red dot sight.

I talked with the head of eye surgery school at a major university.

He said, "Yep. We use a similar thing to check people's eyes. We think of eyes only having acuteness and astigmatism, but there are lots of other eye problems. What you see in the red dot is one of those."

CampingJosh · 11-08-2011, 08:38 AM

I got a great deal on an EOTech earlier this summer (never been mounted for $275 from a reputable dealer), and I love it. The center dot is 1 MOA, and the ring around it would probably work great for close quarters stuff. I've never had reason to try it.

I find it difficult to get my cheek consistently placed on the collapsible stock of my AR. It just doesn't fit well for accurate shooting. But with the holographic sight, it really doesn't matter at all.

carver · 11-08-2011, 09:07 AM

I bought a Red Dot, and stuck it on my Marlin .44mag. Worked great! The problem I ran into was the size of the dot. On a bright day, you have to crank up the intensity, and the dot gets larger as well. #1 setting is good for low light, but in bright light I had to go to #4, and that covers the intire target at 100 yds. I felt more comfortable with the open sights, and retired the Red Dot. On a CQB rifle, it should work just fine.

LDBennett · 11-08-2011, 09:25 AM

carver:

Your experience does not track mine.

I use the intensity control to size the dot to fill the black bull on my targets. I use all mine in the outdoors regularly with no problems at all. They also work great on the rare occasions when I shoot indoors. I make up my own targets with an all black X ring of about an inch or so in diameter with a white ring for the 10 ring. My UltraDots (one inch tube bottom of the line tube version) work perfectly. I have no trouble seeing the dot or adjusting it to fill the black of the X ring at 50 feet. For target beyond that I just lay the dot over the target of interest and shoot away.

LDBennett

carver · 11-08-2011, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LDBennett

carver:

Your experience does not track mine.

I use the intensity control to size the dot to fill the black bull on my targets. I use all mine in the outdoors regularly with no problems at all. They also work great on the rare occasions when I shoot indoors. I make up my own targets with an all black X ring of about an inch or so in diameter with a white ring for the 10 ring. My UltraDots (one inch tube bottom of the line tube version) work perfectly. I have no trouble seeing the dot or adjusting it to fill the black of the X ring at 50 feet. For target beyond that I just lay the dot over the target of interest and shoot away.

LDBennett

I'm glad yours is working for you! I wish mine did, but it is as I stated. On a bright day I can not see the first three dots at all, it's only when I hit #4 that I can see it, and like I stated, #4 covers the entire target at 100 yds. I did not go out and buy the most expensive Red Dot sight, and maybe that's the reason I had problems with it. My 100yd target is under a tree, and in the shade, and I was shooting from a table in the shade, the #1 dot would work just fine under these conditions, but not in the bright sunlight. And it would probably work just fine in a indoor range.

Daffyd · 11-08-2011, 08:47 PM

I choose the EOTech 512 as well, and picked up a GG&G Quick Detach Mount. It's a great system, and sits on my Armalite M15A4. I'm going to snag the EOTech Lens Covers from GG&G first chance I get. They have printing that says "Front Toward Enemy" on the front cover. Gotta love it!

Finster · 12-20-2011, 12:33 PM

I got a clone eotech 552 with a top cover rail for my maadi ak, I went the cheap rout before I get a rail installed, and to my surprise it holds its zero while shooting and I can hit 1 gallon jugs at 225 yards standing with no problem. I do not recommend top rail dust cover cause it looses its zero after you take it off to clean and the clone I think is meant for airsoft guns though, I think I got really lucky on quality for sight and rail.

Daffyd · 12-20-2011, 08:05 PM

I thought about getting a clone for my GSG-5, but ended up with an AIM Red/Green Aimpoint Clone! Not too bad! It holds zero on and off and works well in set up! Still have to shoot it, but looking forward to it!

Just a little update! I finally got the GG&G Lens Cover from Optics Planet for my EOTech 512, and love it! "Front Towards Enemy" version! Popped the battery compartment off to install it and the Duracell batteries had leaked inside. They were only 6 months old. Made a mess of the internals! Luckily Brownells had the replacement for only $20. Had it in 3 days and we're back up and running! Moral of the story - "Check your batteries often or take them out when in long term storage!

Grizz · 12-20-2011, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finster

I got a clone eotech 552 with a top cover rail for my maadi ak, I went the cheap rout before I get a rail installed, and to my surprise it holds its zero while shooting and I can hit 1 gallon jugs at 225 yards standing with no problem. I do not recommend top rail dust cover cause it looses its zero after you take it off to clean and the clone I think is meant for airsoft guns though, I think I got really lucky on quality for sight and rail.

Nice Finster, I got one too for my Ak and can pop clays at 100 yards all day long.

Finster · 12-20-2011, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grizz

Nice Finster, I got one too for my Ak and can pop clays at 100 yards all day long.

Nice, Holographic sights are the way to go.

jce07a · 02-21-2012, 11:42 AM

first is my AR-15 with the EOTech xps2-2 and how the reticle looks (its real hard to get a decent pic of the reticle due to my camera)

second is my plinker M&P15-22 with a short tube red dot

eotech=something like $400
red dot=$35

jce07a · 02-21-2012, 11:44 AM

i also have a longer tube red dot but dont like it as much. it retails for $110

10-13-2010, 06:22 PM	#2
Gene Seward V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Batesville, Arkansas Posts: 478	Re: Holographic vs. Red Dot Sight I have the Eotech 512 and can not fault it in anyway. I did get the one that uses AA batteries cause you can get those anywhere at anytime, even a quik mart. I have found that the older my eyes get the easier I see with the Eotech. I think that they are extremely rugged and if the U.S. forces use them in combat that is good enough for me. Hope I have helped in someway. Good Luck

10-13-2010, 11:01 PM	#3
Zhurh Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Upper Yukon, Alaska Posts: 1,834	Re: Holographic vs. Red Dot Sight I looked at a few scopes in Fairbanks a few months back. A 512, that new Leupold CQ/T, and a couple different Acogs. I have a 4X32 acog red dot/ horseshoe ghost ring with B&C lines, a couple cheap leupolds, and old aimpoints on my AR's and mini-14's. I killed a caribou at over 600 yards with the Acog this fall; hit it twice out of 5 quick shots with 6.8 and went down. I really luv that ghost ring for quick shooting. When I looked at them, that Eotech impressed me, it just looked the best with my eyes. I looked through that Eotech at objects 150-200 yards and felt confident at that distance. Waiting on an armalite 338 federal to come in. Thinking on getting an eotech for close range with one of those dual sidemounts for another standard scope. I looked at the eotech site's reticles and noticed they had one with 2 red dots. For hunting, on an AR platform, which eotech is everybody buying?

10-14-2010, 07:14 AM	#5
Zhurh Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Upper Yukon, Alaska Posts: 1,834	Re: Holographic vs. Red Dot Sight The ghost ring on my acog covers the 8 inch target circle at 100 yards, the dot a little over the bulls eye. When I shot that caribou (over 600 yards) the horseshoe ghost ring covered entire animal, hard to really aim precisely but I guess that's the trade off for quick target acquisition. It sure is nice for quick shots just the same. I have an ancient aimpoint that I bought around 1990, still works like new, uses 2032 battery and is fine out to about 2-3 hundred yards on a deer sized object but one really needs some practice to get good with it I believe. Leaning towards one of those Eotech's myself, just don't know which one? With all the new calibers coming out on AR platforms, I'll find something it works great on I guess.

10-15-2010, 08:08 AM	#7
Bubblehead V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Pioneer, CA Posts: 480	Re: Holographic vs. Red Dot Sight Based on the replies, and other research, I think I want a red dot, not a holographic optic. So now that leaves me with this question. What is the difference between what I will call the "short tube" and "long tube models"? "Short tube" being those stubby little guys you sometimes see on shotguns and the "long tube" are those like the Aimpoint "Comp" series. Is there any functional difference? Is any style better for hunting, plinking, CQB? __________________ There are only two types of ships: Submarines and Targets.

10-17-2010, 07:38 AM	#8
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,754	Re: Holographic vs. Red Dot Sight Holographic vs. Red Dot Sight: The difference is in the way the image is formed. The holographic displays using a laser and the Red Dot uses a Light Emitting Diode. The cost differential is large. Red Dots require centralization of the dot in the field of view for the most precise sighting and I think that is not the case with the holographic sights (??). I have found for pistol or short range rifle shooting with a Red Dot, that getting the dot perfectly centered is not required as, at those ranges, it seems to effect the sighting accuracy little. But at longer ranges the effect magnifies. Also the holographic image dot or reticule can be smaller, sharper, and include details other than just a big red blob that blooms with increases in intensity. Long verses short tube Red Dot: Red Dots work by reflecting the image of a LED off the coated backside of the front lens element. The longer the distance from the LED to that reflective surface, the more precision the sighting, just as longer sight planes with iron sight gives more precise sighting. It depends on exactly how the Red Dot is made but "generally" the longer tube Red Dots give more precision sighting. I'd love to have one of the commercial version holographic sights but so far the pricing has kept me from buying one and they are a bit large for guns other than tactical rifles. I have several Red Dot and love using them. The UltaDot's are my favorite. LDBennett Last edited by LDBennett; 10-17-2010 at 07:40 AM..

10-12-2010, 10:58 AM	#1
Bubblehead V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Pioneer, CA Posts: 480	Holographic vs. Red Dot Sight I want to put an optic sight on my AR but I don't know the advantage of a holographic vs. red dot sight. Neither sight has any magnification. The only advantage I see to a "holo" is the faster acquisition time for CQB situations. Is there any other difference? What about distance shooting; 100 - 200 yards? Do either of these have an advantage over the other? Thanks, John __________________ There are only two types of ships: Submarines and Targets. -->

10-14-2010, 05:26 AM	#4
Jay Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Indiana Posts: 1,286	Re: Holographic vs. Red Dot Sight ...the HUD type sights do not require that the dot be centered. Also, be aware that too large a dot size may cover your target, at longer distances. __________________ "For those who fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected cannot taste." "USMC 8652, 2531, RVN Jun '67, - May 69"

10-17-2010, 07:42 AM	#9
Jay Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Indiana Posts: 1,286	Re: Holographic vs. Red Dot Sight Informative read.... http://www.bullseyepistol.com/dotsight.htm and another.... http://www.articlesbase.com/sports-a...rk-290611.html __________________ "For those who fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected cannot taste." "USMC 8652, 2531, RVN Jun '67, - May 69" Last edited by Jay; 10-17-2010 at 08:03 AM..

11-07-2011, 08:45 PM	#10
courville Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Louisiana Posts: 4	Re: Holographic vs. Red Dot Sight I have Burris fast fire 2 on my SAR-1. As small as it is it is very effective. It's lite,waterproof ,and left on has a 4 year battery life.

11-08-2011, 06:05 AM	#11
NRA_guy V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mississippi Posts: 288	Re: Holographic vs. Red Dot Sight I have wondered the same thing, OP. I have several red dots but no holo sights. One thing about red dots: many users will see a dot that is NOT round. Each user will see something different. I thought it was the cheap red dot sight but when you rotate the sight (can be mounted on your gun---just rotate the gun itself) sideways 90 degrees to the right, then upside down, then 90 degrees to the left you will see that the irregularity stays oriented in the same way!!! Now look at it through your other eye and you will see a different irregularity. Sketch what you see with a pen on paper and get a friend to sketch what he sees. You will see stark differences in the irregular shape of the red dot. This is because of differences in our eyes---not the red dot sight. I talked with the head of eye surgery school at a major university. He said, "Yep. We use a similar thing to check people's eyes. We think of eyes only having acuteness and astigmatism, but there are lots of other eye problems. What you see in the red dot is one of those."

11-08-2011, 08:38 AM	#12
CampingJosh TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 4,800	Re: Holographic vs. Red Dot Sight I got a great deal on an EOTech earlier this summer (never been mounted for $275 from a reputable dealer), and I love it. The center dot is 1 MOA, and the ring around it would probably work great for close quarters stuff. I've never had reason to try it. I find it difficult to get my cheek consistently placed on the collapsible stock of my AR. It just doesn't fit well for accurate shooting. But with the holographic sight, it really doesn't matter at all. __________________ Nothing posted on TheFirearmsForum.com constitutes legal, accounting, gunsmithing, or other professional advice. Readers are encouraged to consult with qualified professionals for real advice. Your life is lived at your own risk. Don't blame me for the dumb things you do.

11-08-2011, 09:07 AM	#13
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,542	Re: Holographic vs. Red Dot Sight I bought a Red Dot, and stuck it on my Marlin .44mag. Worked great! The problem I ran into was the size of the dot. On a bright day, you have to crank up the intensity, and the dot gets larger as well. #1 setting is good for low light, but in bright light I had to go to #4, and that covers the intire target at 100 yds. I felt more comfortable with the open sights, and retired the Red Dot. On a CQB rifle, it should work just fine. __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

11-08-2011, 09:25 AM	#14
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,754	Re: Holographic vs. Red Dot Sight carver: Your experience does not track mine. I use the intensity control to size the dot to fill the black bull on my targets. I use all mine in the outdoors regularly with no problems at all. They also work great on the rare occasions when I shoot indoors. I make up my own targets with an all black X ring of about an inch or so in diameter with a white ring for the 10 ring. My UltraDots (one inch tube bottom of the line tube version) work perfectly. I have no trouble seeing the dot or adjusting it to fill the black of the X ring at 50 feet. For target beyond that I just lay the dot over the target of interest and shoot away. LDBennett

11-08-2011, 08:47 PM	#16
Daffyd Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 43	Re: Holographic vs. Red Dot Sight I choose the EOTech 512 as well, and picked up a GG&G Quick Detach Mount. It's a great system, and sits on my Armalite M15A4. I'm going to snag the EOTech Lens Covers from GG&G first chance I get. They have printing that says "Front Toward Enemy" on the front cover. Gotta love it!

12-20-2011, 12:33 PM	#17
Finster V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 163	Re: Holographic vs. Red Dot Sight I got a clone eotech 552 with a top cover rail for my maadi ak, I went the cheap rout before I get a rail installed, and to my surprise it holds its zero while shooting and I can hit 1 gallon jugs at 225 yards standing with no problem. I do not recommend top rail dust cover cause it looses its zero after you take it off to clean and the clone I think is meant for airsoft guns though, I think I got really lucky on quality for sight and rail.

12-20-2011, 08:05 PM	#18
Daffyd Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 43	Re: Holographic vs. Red Dot Sight I thought about getting a clone for my GSG-5, but ended up with an AIM Red/Green Aimpoint Clone! Not too bad! It holds zero on and off and works well in set up! Still have to shoot it, but looking forward to it! Just a little update! I finally got the GG&G Lens Cover from Optics Planet for my EOTech 512, and love it! "Front Towards Enemy" version! Popped the battery compartment off to install it and the Duracell batteries had leaked inside. They were only 6 months old. Made a mess of the internals! Luckily Brownells had the replacement for only $20. Had it in 3 days and we're back up and running! Moral of the story - "Check your batteries often or take them out when in long term storage!

02-21-2012, 11:42 AM	#21
jce07a V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Abilene, Texas Posts: 216	Re: Holographic vs. Red Dot Sight first is my AR-15 with the EOTech xps2-2 and how the reticle looks (its real hard to get a decent pic of the reticle due to my camera) second is my plinker M&P15-22 with a short tube red dot eotech=something like $400 red dot=$35 Attached Images

02-21-2012, 11:44 AM	#22
jce07a V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Abilene, Texas Posts: 216	Re: Holographic vs. Red Dot Sight i also have a longer tube red dot but dont like it as much. it retails for $110 Attached Images