Anybody a 38 SPL reloading expert? - The Firearms Forum

The Count · 10-23-2010, 04:47 PM

I have the following issue with my 38 SPL reloads. Used in a 6 shooter up to a max of 25 yards, no problem. Used in a Henry Big boy at 25 yards, hits within a 2-4 " group. BUT, when I shoot out to 50 yards the hits can be up to 10 inches away from where they should be. out of 10 shots maybe 1-2 are within 3" of the target, 5-8 will be 6-8 inches a away and maybe 1 even 10 inches off.

my load data is: 158 grain lead SWC or 158 grain RN copper plated. 3.1 grains of clays or 3.6 grains of bullseye. (i use the same load for lead as for plated 158)

results at 50 yards have been crummy with any of the above combinations. an old timer at the range said the those 158 grain bullets out of a 38 SPL are basically inaccurate and that 125 grain bullets are much better. is this true? should i make my loads hotter? weaker? what to do.

todd51 · 10-23-2010, 07:29 PM

Count, I am sure not expert but I regularly shoot .38spl. in my S&W Model 19 w/ six inch barrel. My loads are 2.9grs. of Bullseye behind Hunters Supply 158gr. lead FP. This load will bang the six inch gong at 50 yards all day long. At 25 yards or less it is pretty much a large one hole group. I am suspecting some thing is going on with that Henry. Have you shot any factory loads in the Henry?

The Count · 10-23-2010, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by todd51

I am suspecting some thing is going on with that Henry. Have you shot any factory loads in the Henry?

Yep, I thought of shooting some factory ammo through it next week just to see how it compares.

muddober · 10-23-2010, 07:47 PM

The Count:
I have over 50 years of experience reloading but I have never used such a fast burning powder in a rifle as you are doing. As for 125 grain bullets being more accurate than 158 grain could be true in a particular gun but I doubt that is your problem. Get yourself some Alliant 2400 powder and find a loading in your manual (mine says 10 grains) that will shoot a 158 grain bullet out of your hand gun at about a 1000 fps and I would bet money your rifle and you will love them.

Ron

JLA · 10-23-2010, 09:16 PM

I gotta second muddobbers advice. Rifles require slower powders than pistols because theres 5 times more bore, therefore a slower burn rate is required so your charge isnt running out of energy before the bullet is half way through the barrel. Id bet your clays/bulleye loads are slower form the rifle than they are from the pistol, which is probably why youre all over the place at 50 yds...

The Count · 10-23-2010, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLA

I gotta second muddobbers advice. Rifles require slower powders than pistols because theres 5 times more bore, therefore a slower burn rate is required so your charge isnt running out of energy before the bullet is half way through the barrel. Id bet your clays/bulleye loads are slower form the rifle than they are from the pistol, which is probably why youre all over the place at 50 yds...

Let's see if I understand this right. 38 spl is basically a pistol round. So the loads in the manuals are obviously for that. But when shot in a rifle the bullet is not getting enough 'push'... So for longer distances I would have to load something like H335? With a small rifle primer? Never heard anything like this before to be honest.

todd51 · 10-24-2010, 12:04 AM

OK,said I was no expert. I have never shot or loaded handgun rounds for rifles. But thanks to to Dober and JLA I am learning right along with you Count. Thanks fellows.

Todd

muddober · 10-24-2010, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Count

Let's see if I understand this right. 38 spl is basically a pistol round. So the loads in the manuals are obviously for that. But when shot in a rifle the bullet is not getting enough 'push'... So for longer distances I would have to load something like H335? With a small rifle primer? Never heard anything like this before to be honest.

Count: I have carefully read all the post and I cannot see where anyone suggested using small rifle primers or H335. Alliant 2400 is a relatively slow burning pistol powder that is sometime used in small capacity rifle cases like 25-20 and 22 Hornet. It is an excellent powder for all magnum revolver loads. 2400 is not the choice for auto loaders because it does not burn as clean as some others. Also do not use rifle primers only because historically they have a thicker skin and may not ignite in your hand gun.

What JLA explained in his post is exactly what is happening to you when using Clays or Bullseye in your rifle.

Ron

The Count · 10-24-2010, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muddober

Count: I have carefully read all the post and I cannot see where anyone suggested using small rifle primers or H335. Alliant 2400 is a relatively slow burning pistol powder that is sometime used in small capacity rifle cases like 25-20 and 22 Hornet. It is an excellent powder for all magnum revolver loads. 2400 is not the choice for auto loaders because it does not burn as clean as some others.
What JLA explained in his post is exactly what is happening with your Clays and Bullseye in your rifle.

Ron

OK, now i get it. I have some Power Pistol at hand which is much slower than Bullseye or Clays. (on the Hodgdon Burn rate chart 2400 is at #54, Clays at #10, Bullseye at #13 and Power Pistol at #33.)

I just found this very interesting page where a guy experimented with several powders to duplicate a Remington factory load.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloadi...plication.html

Look at the picture with the hits at 25 yards (pistol)! My hits at 50 yards (rifle) are somewhat worse but I am surprised how at 25 the groups are poor for most powders, even #6, the factory load. So maybe 50 yard accuracy with 38 SPL is just not great, regardless....
Wonder if that will make a difference.

RandyP · 10-24-2010, 09:05 AM

Just looking at the 'math' it would seem that being 2"-4" off POA at 25 yards 'could' make being 8"-10" off at double the distance 'normal' with that particular loading? I am presuming you are firing from a rest, not standing offhand?

I would also agree that working up a load from a known reference point could simplify things, so try some factory ammo first.

I shoot the same reloads in my 9mm pistols and my 9mm carbine and find that the carbine works quite fine and retains accuracy.

mikld · 10-24-2010, 11:07 AM

If I were faced with this same situation I would try some 158 gr. +P 38 Special factory loads. Also I'd suggest only published loads (the manuals will list the slower powders for .38 Special) and some manuals have pistol cartridges listed for rifles.

JLA · 10-24-2010, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Count

Let's see if I understand this right. 38 spl is basically a pistol round. So the loads in the manuals are obviously for that. But when shot in a rifle the bullet is not getting enough 'push'... So for longer distances I would have to load something like H335? With a small rifle primer? Never heard anything like this before to be honest.

Not quite, youre thinkin too extreme. What i mean by using a slow powder for your .38 loads is using a suitable powder on the slow end. Sierra lists both rifle and pistol data for many pistol rounds as does the Lyman manual and others...

And you never wanna use small rifle primers in the .38 spec case, no matter what you load it in...

The Count · 10-25-2010, 09:07 AM

Today I called Henry customer support because I figured who would no better than the gun manufacturer, right? Big disappointment. As to my question which factory ammo is best for the Big Boy in 357 I got a 'all ammo is good' answer. And then to the second question if 125 grain bullets would be more accurate than 158 grain, which an old timer told me, a similarly useless answer like 'thats one person's opinion'.

Lastly, which reloading powder/bullet combinations they might recommend. Answer was we don't test reloads nor factory ammo for accuracy. Can you believe this? Thats all the info one gets for an long time rifle manufacturer?

WHAT A BUNCH OF CLUELESS ROBOTS! First and last Henry I will ever get.

mikld · 10-25-2010, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Count

Today I called Henry customer support because I figured who would no better than the gun manufacturer, right? Big disappointment. As to my question which factory ammo is best for the Big Boy in 357 I got a 'all ammo is good' answer. And then to the second question if 125 grain bullets would be more accurate than 158 grain, which an old timer told me, a similarly useless answer like 'thats one person's opinion'.

Lastly, which reloading powder/bullet combinations they might recommend. Answer was we don't test reloads nor factory ammo for accuracy. Can you believe this? Thats all the info one gets for an long time rifle manufacturer?

WHAT A BUNCH OF CLUELESS ROBOTS! First and last Henry I will ever get.

Kinda tough on Henry, IMO. Firearms manufacturers aren't in the reloading business and for safety's sake don't recommend any reloads. Put yourself in their place and some new reloader calls and asks for reloading info. What would you do? Not tryin' to be a smart a$$, or condemning...

There is no "one load/bullet fits every gun" no matter what the oldtimers tell you. If you're reloading for a .357 rifle, why don't you work up light accuracy loads in .357 brass? I know it would be convient to try for a load for both guns, but a compromise usually isn't perfect for either one. I have the same situation but different caliber; .44 Magnum. Some .44 Specials are accurate in my Ruger, but not in my Dan Wesson. Some bullets are good in my 629, but I get "patterns" in my Puma, and my Contender only shoots good with hot loads under a 250gr. SWCGC. The way I worked this out is concentrated on one gun to find the best bullet for each gun (265 gr Ranchdog @ .432" for my Puma and Lyman 245 gr. 429421 @ .430" for my Blackhawk). I can get loads that shoot "fair" in most of my .44s, but not "good" in all them.

Hey, jes my $.02

JLA · 10-25-2010, 01:29 PM

Here ya go count, imma try n help ya get it on the path to shootn good at 50 and even 100 yards...

These loads are plucked straight outta my lyman 49 book (pistol data).

.38 special

125 gr jacketed (hornady XTP to be exact) @ 1.470"
Power pistol - 5.4 start / 6.0 MAX (6.4 = +P)
Blue Dot - 7.6 start / 8.5 MAX (I think this powder will yield the best results for this bullet weight in your rifle)

158 gr jacketed (also a Hornady XTP) @ 1.480"
power pistol - 4.3 start / 4.8 MAX (5.3 = +P) (I think this is a little fast for this bullet weight in a rifle)
Blue Dot - 6.0 start / 6.7 MAX
2400 - 8.4 start / 9.4 MAX (I think this powder will yield the best results in your rifle for this bullet weight)

If you load lead I can post lead data...

JLA · 10-25-2010, 01:35 PM

Heres some .357 mag data (for .357 mag cases of course), which i feel will be better suited to accuracy in your henry..

Cartridge: 357 Magnum
Load Type: Rifle
Starting Loads

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maximum Loads

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Bullet Weight (Gr.) Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

125 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon H4227 .357" 1.590" 18.0 1955 34,400 CUP 20.0 2122 42,000 CUP
125 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon H110 .357" 1.590" 21.0 2205 38,400 CUP 22.0 2276 41,400 CUP
125 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon HS-6 .357" 1.590" 9.8 1538 34,400 CUP 10.9 1724 42,100 CUP
125 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon Universal .357" 1.590" 7.1 1423 34,900 CUP 7.6 1526 39,600 CUP
125 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon HP-38 .357" 1.590" 7.3 1454 33,800 CUP 8.5 1622 42,700 CUP
125 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon Titegroup .357" 1.590" 6.8 1461 36,500 CUP 7.5 1586 41,200 CUP
125 GR. HDY XTP IMR IMR 4227 .357" 1.590" 18.0 1955 34,400 CUP 20.0 2122 42,000 CUP
125 GR. HDY XTP IMR SR 4756 .357" 1.590" 6.0 1593 18,600 PSI 7.8 1537 30,600 PSI
125 GR. HDY XTP IMR SR 7625 .357" 1.590" 5.8 1258 19,000 PSI 7.5 1481 33,800 PSI
125 GR. HDY XTP IMR PB .357" 1.590" 4.5 1123 19,600 PSI 5.9 1333 32,900 PSI
125 GR. HDY XTP IMR 700-X .357" 1.590" 4.5 1173 18,300 PSI 6.4 1479 30,400 PSI

158 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon H4227 .357" 1.580" 14.5 1578 34,600 CUP 16.0 1668 42,600 CUP
158 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon H110 .357" 1.580" 15.0 1619 28,600 CUP 16.7 1757 40,700 CUP
158 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon HS-6 .357" 1.580" 8.0 1181 28,000 CUP 9.5 1427 41,900 CUP
158 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon Universal .357" 1.580" 5.8 1059 32,100 CUP 6.3 1147 39,300 CUP
158 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon HP-38 .357" 1.580" 6.2 1095 33,700 CUP 6.9 1214 40,000 CUP
158 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon Titegroup .357" 1.580" 5.4 1035 32,600 CUP 6.1 1184 41,900 CUP
158 GR. HDY XTP IMR IMR 4227 .357" 1.580" 14.5 1578 34,600 CUP 16.0 1668 42,600 CUP
158 GR. HDY XTP IMR SR 4756 .357" 1.580" 5.0 976 17,500 PSI 6.5 1216 29,900 PSI
158 GR. HDY XTP IMR SR 7625 .357" 1.580" 4.3 892 16,700 PSI 5.8 1145 29,600 PSI
158 GR. HDY XTP IMR PB .357" 1.580" 3.7 827 18,800 PSI 4.9 1064 31,700 PSI
158 GR. HDY XTP IMR 700-X .357" 1.580" 4.5 1019 21,900 PSI 5.7 1219 31,200 PSI
158 GR. LSWC Hodgdon H4227 .358" 1.610" 10.5 1288 15,400 CUP 11.5 1382 17,800 CUP
158 GR. LSWC Hodgdon HS-6 .358" 1.610" 6.0 1083 12,900 CUP 7.0 1224 15,500 CUP
158 GR. LSWC Hodgdon Universal .358" 1.610" 5.5 1214 23,300 CUP 6.7 1380 34,600 CUP
158 GR. LSWC Hodgdon HP-38 .358" 1.610" 3.5 901 8,400 CUP 4.5 1059 16,200 CUP
158 GR. LSWC Hodgdon Titegroup .358" 1.610" 4.5 1157 19,300 CUP 5.0 1220 24,900 CUP

NEVER EXCEED MAXIMUM LOADS

The Count · 10-25-2010, 04:28 PM

@JLA

Thanks for all those loads. I consulted a Hornady book on 38 SPL and it says for best accuracy in this caliber stay at about 800 fps and the 148 grain HBWC is the most accurate bullet. You would think that a gun manufacturer would have at least this kind of information and much more. I just had my Ruger Vaquero repaired under warranty, best customer service experience ever. Expert trouble shooting over they phone. When it became clear it needed to be sent in they arranged for a free UPS pickup and shipping. Returned repaired after one week.

JLA · 10-26-2010, 04:58 AM

The HBWC bullets are one of the most accurate designe ever made, but may not feed at all from the magazine of your henry. and after about 50 yds they begin to tumble so the best results youre gonna get with them is at 25 yds with a revolver...

carver · 10-26-2010, 08:41 AM

The Count
Like these others are telling you, there is no one load that is best for all guns. A .38 pistol load will not shoot as well in a .357 chambered rifle, they are different loads. A load that works well in your pistol, might not work well in mine, and probably won't work all that well in your rifle. On the other hand, a load that works well in the rifle won't nessarally work well in the pistol. I reload & shoot .44Mag in pistol & rifle, and I use the same load in each, that combo works well. I also reload and shoot .44Spcl. When I shoot the .44Spcl in the rifle things are different, but acceptable. My present .44Spcl is a Bull Dog DAO, not much in the accuracy department, but these loads perform adequately in the rifle. I used to own a Bull Dog that would out shoot the rifle in .44Spcl. I hope you understand what I am trying to say here. Things that are different are not the same! Work up a good load for the pistol in .38, and one for the rifle in .357. Shoot either in the rifle, and live with what you get. You won't be using the rifle in a SD situation if the pistol is handy with good loads, and you won't be hunting with it, the .38 just really isn't enough for big game. You might use the rifle in a SD situation, and the .357 ammo you have built will work well in it for either SD, or hunting. Now you can shoot .38's in the .357 Rifle, but don't expect that both bullets will perform the same, they are not the same.

JLA · 10-26-2010, 05:45 PM

Another reason accuracy suffers from shooting .38s in a .357 chamber is because youre simply using a shorter cartridge in a longer chamber. you have created a long leade situation which short pistol bullets rarely resond well to. basically the bullet is completely clearing the case in a loose portion of the bore before its ramping up into the throat of the bore unsupported by the case and the chamber. Most likely its entering the bore slightly crooked and distorting which causes erratic flight and consequently wont group well on paper. If youre dead set on .38 spec loads, try loading .38 spec levels in .357 mag cases. This will correct the long leade problem and should shrink your groups considerably...

MichaelK · 11-02-2010, 05:50 PM

Your problem might be that your bullets are passing the sound barrier at 50 yards and starting to become unstable.

I load my own cast 150 grain bullet in .38 special brass with 8.0 grains of blue dot. In my 6" revolver, that load exits at 1090 fps. In my .357 rifle, the same load is going 1265 fps. According to Hornady's ballistic table, that bullet is slowing down to about 1100-1150 fps at 50 yards, which depending on the temperature/pressure/humidity is the sound barrier. Bullets typically stay stable when shot either above or below the barrier, but tend to destabilize crossing the barrier.

Test a .357 load at higher velocity. That should typically be going out the barrel at 1700-1800 fps and will be significantly above the sound barrier out to 100 yards.
Good luck,
Michael

JLA · 11-02-2010, 07:28 PM

^^^that is another very good point. When objects break the speed of sound they create a sonic crack, or a burst of erratic soundwaves that are powerful and completely random. you can actually hear it if you shoot a noise suppressed weapon with high velocity ammo. it sounds like a .22 crack about 50 feet in front of you. Point is, those erratic soundwaves will sometimes cause a projectile to wobble and begin to yaw in flight which usually worsens the further out the projectile travels.

10-23-2010, 07:29 PM	#2
todd51 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Central, Ohio Contributor Posts: 2,595	Re: Anybody a 38 SPL reloading expert? Count, I am sure not expert but I regularly shoot .38spl. in my S&W Model 19 w/ six inch barrel. My loads are 2.9grs. of Bullseye behind Hunters Supply 158gr. lead FP. This load will bang the six inch gong at 50 yards all day long. At 25 yards or less it is pretty much a large one hole group. I am suspecting some thing is going on with that Henry. Have you shot any factory loads in the Henry? __________________ Retired Praefectus Vigilum NRA Endowment Member

10-23-2010, 07:47 PM	#4
muddober Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,436	Re: Anybody a 38 SPL reloading expert? The Count: I have over 50 years of experience reloading but I have never used such a fast burning powder in a rifle as you are doing. As for 125 grain bullets being more accurate than 158 grain could be true in a particular gun but I doubt that is your problem. Get yourself some Alliant 2400 powder and find a loading in your manual (mine says 10 grains) that will shoot a 158 grain bullet out of your hand gun at about a 1000 fps and I would bet money your rifle and you will love them. Ron

10-24-2010, 12:04 AM	#7
todd51 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Central, Ohio Contributor Posts: 2,595	Re: Anybody a 38 SPL reloading expert? OK,said I was no expert. I have never shot or loaded handgun rounds for rifles. But thanks to to Dober and JLA I am learning right along with you Count. Thanks fellows. Todd __________________ Retired Praefectus Vigilum NRA Endowment Member

10-24-2010, 11:07 AM	#11
mikld Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 577	Re: Anybody a 38 SPL reloading expert? If I were faced with this same situation I would try some 158 gr. +P 38 Special factory loads. Also I'd suggest only published loads (the manuals will list the slower powders for .38 Special) and some manuals have pistol cartridges listed for rifles. __________________ My Anchor is holding fast.

10-25-2010, 01:29 PM	#15
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,407	Re: Anybody a 38 SPL reloading expert? Here ya go count, imma try n help ya get it on the path to shootn good at 50 and even 100 yards... These loads are plucked straight outta my lyman 49 book (pistol data). .38 special 125 gr jacketed (hornady XTP to be exact) @ 1.470" Power pistol - 5.4 start / 6.0 MAX (6.4 = +P) Blue Dot - 7.6 start / 8.5 MAX (I think this powder will yield the best results for this bullet weight in your rifle) 158 gr jacketed (also a Hornady XTP) @ 1.480" power pistol - 4.3 start / 4.8 MAX (5.3 = +P) (I think this is a little fast for this bullet weight in a rifle) Blue Dot - 6.0 start / 6.7 MAX 2400 - 8.4 start / 9.4 MAX (I think this powder will yield the best results in your rifle for this bullet weight) If you load lead I can post lead data... __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF! Last edited by JLA; 10-25-2010 at 01:31 PM..

10-23-2010, 04:47 PM	#1
The Count V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 264	Anybody a 38 SPL reloading expert? I have the following issue with my 38 SPL reloads. Used in a 6 shooter up to a max of 25 yards, no problem. Used in a Henry Big boy at 25 yards, hits within a 2-4 " group. BUT, when I shoot out to 50 yards the hits can be up to 10 inches away from where they should be. out of 10 shots maybe 1-2 are within 3" of the target, 5-8 will be 6-8 inches a away and maybe 1 even 10 inches off. my load data is: 158 grain lead SWC or 158 grain RN copper plated. 3.1 grains of clays or 3.6 grains of bullseye. (i use the same load for lead as for plated 158) results at 50 yards have been crummy with any of the above combinations. an old timer at the range said the those 158 grain bullets out of a 38 SPL are basically inaccurate and that 125 grain bullets are much better. is this true? should i make my loads hotter? weaker? what to do. --> Last edited by The Count; 10-23-2010 at 04:57 PM..

10-23-2010, 09:16 PM	#5
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,407	Re: Anybody a 38 SPL reloading expert? I gotta second muddobbers advice. Rifles require slower powders than pistols because theres 5 times more bore, therefore a slower burn rate is required so your charge isnt running out of energy before the bullet is half way through the barrel. Id bet your clays/bulleye loads are slower form the rifle than they are from the pistol, which is probably why youre all over the place at 50 yds... __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

10-24-2010, 09:05 AM	#10
RandyP V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 439	Re: Anybody a 38 SPL reloading expert? Just looking at the 'math' it would seem that being 2"-4" off POA at 25 yards 'could' make being 8"-10" off at double the distance 'normal' with that particular loading? I am presuming you are firing from a rest, not standing offhand? I would also agree that working up a load from a known reference point could simplify things, so try some factory ammo first. I shoot the same reloads in my 9mm pistols and my 9mm carbine and find that the carbine works quite fine and retains accuracy. __________________ Lee Anniversary and Lee Classic 4-Hole Turret, presently reloading .380, 7.62 Nagant (32-20), 9mm and 45ACP

10-25-2010, 09:07 AM	#13
The Count V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 264	Re: Anybody a 38 SPL reloading expert? Today I called Henry customer support because I figured who would no better than the gun manufacturer, right? Big disappointment. As to my question which factory ammo is best for the Big Boy in 357 I got a 'all ammo is good' answer. And then to the second question if 125 grain bullets would be more accurate than 158 grain, which an old timer told me, a similarly useless answer like 'thats one person's opinion'. Lastly, which reloading powder/bullet combinations they might recommend. Answer was we don't test reloads nor factory ammo for accuracy. Can you believe this? Thats all the info one gets for an long time rifle manufacturer? WHAT A BUNCH OF CLUELESS ROBOTS! First and last Henry I will ever get. Last edited by The Count; 10-25-2010 at 09:16 AM..

10-25-2010, 01:35 PM	#16
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,407	Re: Anybody a 38 SPL reloading expert? Heres some .357 mag data (for .357 mag cases of course), which i feel will be better suited to accuracy in your henry.. Cartridge: 357 Magnum Load Type: Rifle Starting Loads -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Maximum Loads -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bullet Weight (Gr.) Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 125 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon H4227 .357" 1.590" 18.0 1955 34,400 CUP 20.0 2122 42,000 CUP 125 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon H110 .357" 1.590" 21.0 2205 38,400 CUP 22.0 2276 41,400 CUP 125 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon HS-6 .357" 1.590" 9.8 1538 34,400 CUP 10.9 1724 42,100 CUP 125 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon Universal .357" 1.590" 7.1 1423 34,900 CUP 7.6 1526 39,600 CUP 125 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon HP-38 .357" 1.590" 7.3 1454 33,800 CUP 8.5 1622 42,700 CUP 125 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon Titegroup .357" 1.590" 6.8 1461 36,500 CUP 7.5 1586 41,200 CUP 125 GR. HDY XTP IMR IMR 4227 .357" 1.590" 18.0 1955 34,400 CUP 20.0 2122 42,000 CUP 125 GR. HDY XTP IMR SR 4756 .357" 1.590" 6.0 1593 18,600 PSI 7.8 1537 30,600 PSI 125 GR. HDY XTP IMR SR 7625 .357" 1.590" 5.8 1258 19,000 PSI 7.5 1481 33,800 PSI 125 GR. HDY XTP IMR PB .357" 1.590" 4.5 1123 19,600 PSI 5.9 1333 32,900 PSI 125 GR. HDY XTP IMR 700-X .357" 1.590" 4.5 1173 18,300 PSI 6.4 1479 30,400 PSI 158 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon H4227 .357" 1.580" 14.5 1578 34,600 CUP 16.0 1668 42,600 CUP 158 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon H110 .357" 1.580" 15.0 1619 28,600 CUP 16.7 1757 40,700 CUP 158 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon HS-6 .357" 1.580" 8.0 1181 28,000 CUP 9.5 1427 41,900 CUP 158 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon Universal .357" 1.580" 5.8 1059 32,100 CUP 6.3 1147 39,300 CUP 158 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon HP-38 .357" 1.580" 6.2 1095 33,700 CUP 6.9 1214 40,000 CUP 158 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon Titegroup .357" 1.580" 5.4 1035 32,600 CUP 6.1 1184 41,900 CUP 158 GR. HDY XTP IMR IMR 4227 .357" 1.580" 14.5 1578 34,600 CUP 16.0 1668 42,600 CUP 158 GR. HDY XTP IMR SR 4756 .357" 1.580" 5.0 976 17,500 PSI 6.5 1216 29,900 PSI 158 GR. HDY XTP IMR SR 7625 .357" 1.580" 4.3 892 16,700 PSI 5.8 1145 29,600 PSI 158 GR. HDY XTP IMR PB .357" 1.580" 3.7 827 18,800 PSI 4.9 1064 31,700 PSI 158 GR. HDY XTP IMR 700-X .357" 1.580" 4.5 1019 21,900 PSI 5.7 1219 31,200 PSI 158 GR. LSWC Hodgdon H4227 .358" 1.610" 10.5 1288 15,400 CUP 11.5 1382 17,800 CUP 158 GR. LSWC Hodgdon HS-6 .358" 1.610" 6.0 1083 12,900 CUP 7.0 1224 15,500 CUP 158 GR. LSWC Hodgdon Universal .358" 1.610" 5.5 1214 23,300 CUP 6.7 1380 34,600 CUP 158 GR. LSWC Hodgdon HP-38 .358" 1.610" 3.5 901 8,400 CUP 4.5 1059 16,200 CUP 158 GR. LSWC Hodgdon Titegroup .358" 1.610" 4.5 1157 19,300 CUP 5.0 1220 24,900 CUP NEVER EXCEED MAXIMUM LOADS __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

10-25-2010, 04:28 PM	#17
The Count V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 264	Re: Anybody a 38 SPL reloading expert? @JLA Thanks for all those loads. I consulted a Hornady book on 38 SPL and it says for best accuracy in this caliber stay at about 800 fps and the 148 grain HBWC is the most accurate bullet. You would think that a gun manufacturer would have at least this kind of information and much more. I just had my Ruger Vaquero repaired under warranty, best customer service experience ever. Expert trouble shooting over they phone. When it became clear it needed to be sent in they arranged for a free UPS pickup and shipping. Returned repaired after one week. Last edited by The Count; 10-25-2010 at 04:32 PM..

10-26-2010, 04:58 AM	#18
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,407	Re: Anybody a 38 SPL reloading expert? The HBWC bullets are one of the most accurate designe ever made, but may not feed at all from the magazine of your henry. and after about 50 yds they begin to tumble so the best results youre gonna get with them is at 25 yds with a revolver... __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

10-26-2010, 08:41 AM	#19
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,552	Re: Anybody a 38 SPL reloading expert? The Count Like these others are telling you, there is no one load that is best for all guns. A .38 pistol load will not shoot as well in a .357 chambered rifle, they are different loads. A load that works well in your pistol, might not work well in mine, and probably won't work all that well in your rifle. On the other hand, a load that works well in the rifle won't nessarally work well in the pistol. I reload & shoot .44Mag in pistol & rifle, and I use the same load in each, that combo works well. I also reload and shoot .44Spcl. When I shoot the .44Spcl in the rifle things are different, but acceptable. My present .44Spcl is a Bull Dog DAO, not much in the accuracy department, but these loads perform adequately in the rifle. I used to own a Bull Dog that would out shoot the rifle in .44Spcl. I hope you understand what I am trying to say here. Things that are different are not the same! Work up a good load for the pistol in .38, and one for the rifle in .357. Shoot either in the rifle, and live with what you get. You won't be using the rifle in a SD situation if the pistol is handy with good loads, and you won't be hunting with it, the .38 just really isn't enough for big game. You might use the rifle in a SD situation, and the .357 ammo you have built will work well in it for either SD, or hunting. Now you can shoot .38's in the .357 Rifle, but don't expect that both bullets will perform the same, they are not the same. __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old. Last edited by carver; 10-26-2010 at 08:47 AM..

10-26-2010, 05:45 PM	#20
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,407	Re: Anybody a 38 SPL reloading expert? Another reason accuracy suffers from shooting .38s in a .357 chamber is because youre simply using a shorter cartridge in a longer chamber. you have created a long leade situation which short pistol bullets rarely resond well to. basically the bullet is completely clearing the case in a loose portion of the bore before its ramping up into the throat of the bore unsupported by the case and the chamber. Most likely its entering the bore slightly crooked and distorting which causes erratic flight and consequently wont group well on paper. If youre dead set on .38 spec loads, try loading .38 spec levels in .357 mag cases. This will correct the long leade problem and should shrink your groups considerably... __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

11-02-2010, 05:50 PM	#21
MichaelK Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 2	Re: Anybody a 38 SPL reloading expert? Your problem might be that your bullets are passing the sound barrier at 50 yards and starting to become unstable. I load my own cast 150 grain bullet in .38 special brass with 8.0 grains of blue dot. In my 6" revolver, that load exits at 1090 fps. In my .357 rifle, the same load is going 1265 fps. According to Hornady's ballistic table, that bullet is slowing down to about 1100-1150 fps at 50 yards, which depending on the temperature/pressure/humidity is the sound barrier. Bullets typically stay stable when shot either above or below the barrier, but tend to destabilize crossing the barrier. Test a .357 load at higher velocity. That should typically be going out the barrel at 1700-1800 fps and will be significantly above the sound barrier out to 100 yards. Good luck, Michael

11-02-2010, 07:28 PM	#22
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,407	Re: Anybody a 38 SPL reloading expert? ^^^that is another very good point. When objects break the speed of sound they create a sonic crack, or a burst of erratic soundwaves that are powerful and completely random. you can actually hear it if you shoot a noise suppressed weapon with high velocity ammo. it sounds like a .22 crack about 50 feet in front of you. Point is, those erratic soundwaves will sometimes cause a projectile to wobble and begin to yaw in flight which usually worsens the further out the projectile travels. __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!