Iver Johnson Hercules Grade 12 gauge side by side - The Firearms Forum

quiknot · 10-30-2010, 08:06 AM

Hi everyone, I am proud to say that I recently inherited an Iver Johnson Hercules Grade side by side 12 gauge from my great uncle who had it passed to him many years ago by a close friend. I think from searching the forum I know what I am looking at (information from this post: http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/show...67&postcount=5) but I just want to verify.

Information from shotgun:
Top of barrel: IVER JOHNSON and HERCULES GRADE
Side of barrel: Etching of hunting dog and Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle works Fitchburg Mass, USA.
Butt plate: Picture of owl
Pistol grip cap: Iver Johnson
Two triggers
Checkered stock

Serial number: 12490
Patented March 16, 1915
April 27, 1915

I mostly interested in learning about the gun, I would like to know the value but this will stay in the family. How is condition determined? Are there any references online? The stock has a couple dings here and there and the bluing is a little worn near the receiver but overall I think for a gun of this age it is in decent condition. All writing on the barrel was very easy to read and there is no rust anywhere. Are pictures allowed to be posted here?

I also wanted to ask peoples opinion on refinishing the gun, do you think it would make sense or take away from the gun? I recently refinished my Savage hunting rifle and was pretty happy with the results (Birchwood Casey kit (stain, tru oil, cold blue).

Thanks everyone, I truly appreciate any information.

quiknot · 10-30-2010, 09:22 AM

Here are some pictures

Jim Hauff · 10-30-2010, 01:21 PM

Nice pictures - you've covered all the bases. Bill G. will be along shortly with the info you seek. He's THE man when it comes to Iver Johnson firearms. Nice shotgun, also.

b.goforth · 10-31-2010, 12:15 PM

this is probably the earliest hercules grade double i have seen. patent dates were dropped from the markings in the late 1920's.

IVER JOHNSON HAMMERLESS (MONO-BLOC)------------------1914-1923
Box lock side by side double barrel; breech sleeve area is solid one piece (Mono-Bloc), dropped forged; hammers can be lowered without snapping them on empty chambers; automatic safety and automatic extractors; double triggers; 12 gague only; Browned Barrels and case hardened receiver; 28 and 30 inch barrels, choked left full and right modified, 32 inch barrels chocked full and full; American Black Walnut butt stock and fore-end, pistol grip checkered no grip cap; hard rubber butt plate; weight with 30 inch barrels 7½ pounds; overall length with 30 inch barrels 46 3/8 inch.
VALUE 100%=$600 60%=$300

IVER JOHNSON HAMMERLESS HERCULES GRADE------------1924-1935*
Box lock side by side double barrel; each barrel and lug forged as one piece then joined together; 12, 16 & 20 Gauge; Browned barrels and case hardened receiver; American Black Walnut butt stock and fore-end, hand checkered; plain extractor model has slim fore-end and automatic ejector model has beavertail fore-end with D & E fastener; hard rubber butt plate and pistol grip cap; butt stock is 14 inches in length, butt stock drop at comb is 1¾ inches and at heel is 2 ¾ inches; automatic safety; double triggers; overall length with 30 inch barrel 46 3/8 inches; weight 7¾ pounds. Hunting dog etching on the left side of the frame. Some of these double barrel shotguns have been seen with Canadian marking, these were most likely shipped to Canada and then marked as there is no evidence that Iver Johnson’s Arms & Cycle Works ever had a manufacturing factory in Canada. It has been reported that a special run of the Hercules double gun was manufactured for Montgomery Wards & Co. in the 1930’s Marked “WESTERN FIELD MODEL 53”.
*Exact year undetermined
VALUE: 100%=$1100 60%=$525
Add 15% for auto-ejectors model
Add 25% for single trigger

IVER JOHNSON HAMMERLESS (HAMMER FORGED MODEL)------1936*-1941
Same as Hercules Grade except left side of frame marked IVER JOHNSON HAMMER FORGED in two lines and right side of frame marked with company name and address,
*Exact year undetermined
VALUE: SAME AS HERCULES GRADE

because of the shape if the fore-end and markings i am going to guess it was made between 1924 and 1927.
bill

quiknot · 10-31-2010, 07:10 PM

Thanks Bill, I really appreciate you taking a look.

jbuck · 02-14-2011, 09:08 PM

Hello Bill,
I stumbled upon this forum when searching for Iver Johnson Hercules Grade. I have also inherited an Iver Johnson Hercules Grade 30" with the exact same patent dates, bird engraving, Iver Johnson emblem, double hammer, overall length, drop length, shell ejectors etc as you describe in the 1924-1935 models. Based on the pictures of the other gentleman's posted mine is in very similar condition. The difference of course is the serial number. Mine shows 304 E. Do you have any info based on this serial number. Did the increment throughout production... does a lower number indicate it is from the mid 1920's? Do you know how many were manufactured per year?

thawk · 03-18-2012, 06:21 PM

I am far from an expert on firearms. I just recently inherited a number of firearms from my father-in-law. Way back in the closet I found a double barrel hammerless Iver Johnson shotgun with the same patent dates, same wording," Iver Johnson firearms and cycle works", but no other markings but the serial number, 29994, on all the parts of the gun. When I found it it was broken down and in a two piece canvass carrying case. I cleaned it up and found that when I close it the safety doesn't keep the front trigger/left side barrel from firing. I took it apart and found that a piece of the safety mechanism, a flat thin piece of metal with two prongs had one of the prongs broken. I assume thats why the safety doesn't work on one side. Any ideas what this part is called and where I can find one?

bobski · 03-21-2012, 05:13 PM

i have a i.j. manual back in va. ill be there in april and look it up for you.

parsons68 · 04-29-2012, 10:59 AM

Hi, I was just passed down an Iver Johnson side x side 12 gauge shotgun. It says it it was made by Ivor Johnson Arms and Cycle works, Canada Ltd-Montreal. Made in Cobourg. It is a Hercules Grade and has the number 1491 on all pieces of the gun when taken apart. It also has the letter W or M on the barrel, opposite the number 1491. Just wondering if anyone knows any history of this shogun??? Would appreciate any knowledge on the gun.....
Thanks,
Greg

doubleslover · 04-29-2012, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsons68

Hi, I was just passed down an Iver Johnson side x side 12 gauge shotgun. It says it it was made by Ivor Johnson Arms and Cycle works, Canada Ltd-Montreal. Made in Cobourg. It is a Hercules Grade and has the number 1491 on all pieces of the gun when taken apart. It also has the letter W or M on the barrel, opposite the number 1491. Just wondering if anyone knows any history of this shogun??? Would appreciate any knowledge on the gun.....
Thanks,
Greg

Your Iver Johnson was finished and assembled by the Cooey Firearms Company in Cobourg, Ontario, Canada. Cooey had an arrangement with Iver Johnson from about 1932 to at least 1939 to finish guns for the Canadian and British market. I have 3 single shot champions and a Hercules SxS that are all marked with the Canadian markings. The numbers on your gun are the serial number and all the numbers being the same on all the parts means it is a gun with all original parts matching. Matching numbers means the barrel or action etc. have not been replaced at some point.

parsons68 · 05-03-2012, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doubleslover

Your Iver Johnson was finished and assembled by the Cooey Firearms Company in Cobourg, Ontario, Canada. Cooey had an arrangement with Iver Johnson from about 1932 to at least 1939 to finish guns for the Canadian and British market. I have 3 single shot champions and a Hercules SxS that are all marked with the Canadian markings. The numbers on your gun are the serial number and all the numbers being the same on all the parts means it is a gun with all original parts matching. Matching numbers means the barrel or action etc. have not been replaced at some point.

Thank you for the information...... so does this mean the gun I have was assembed sometime between 1932 and 1939??

doubleslover · 05-07-2012, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsons68

Thank you for the information...... so does this mean the gun I have was assembed sometime between 1932 and 1939??

Yes

occradave · 01-08-2013, 04:30 PM

Yes I'm in receipt of an Iver Johnson 12 guage Hercules that is in very good condition. It was my paternal Grandfathers and I'm planning on giving it to my nephew (my brothers son). I'm trying to find a value to place on it so that he (my nephew) will know weither to just shoot it or keep it as an heirloom. The serial number is 20825 and it has a soft shell cover with it.

Anchor Clanker · 01-08-2013, 04:34 PM

Single barrel or double barrel? And what is a soft shell cover?

occradave · 01-09-2013, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anchor Clanker

Single barrel or double barrel? And what is a soft shell cover?

Its a 2 barrel and two trigger shotgun with the dog on the left side of the mechanism.

The shotgun is in a soft long casing with a carry strap and zipper that probably is an after market item.

I couldn't find any info on the carry case but it looks old. The carry strap is broken.

10-30-2010, 08:06 AM	#1
quiknot Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 3	Iver Johnson Hercules Grade 12 gauge side by side Hi everyone, I am proud to say that I recently inherited an Iver Johnson Hercules Grade side by side 12 gauge from my great uncle who had it passed to him many years ago by a close friend. I think from searching the forum I know what I am looking at (information from this post: http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/show...67&postcount=5) but I just want to verify. Information from shotgun: Top of barrel: IVER JOHNSON and HERCULES GRADE Side of barrel: Etching of hunting dog and Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle works Fitchburg Mass, USA. Butt plate: Picture of owl Pistol grip cap: Iver Johnson Two triggers Checkered stock Serial number: 12490 Patented March 16, 1915 April 27, 1915 I mostly interested in learning about the gun, I would like to know the value but this will stay in the family. How is condition determined? Are there any references online? The stock has a couple dings here and there and the bluing is a little worn near the receiver but overall I think for a gun of this age it is in decent condition. All writing on the barrel was very easy to read and there is no rust anywhere. Are pictures allowed to be posted here? I also wanted to ask peoples opinion on refinishing the gun, do you think it would make sense or take away from the gun? I recently refinished my Savage hunting rifle and was pretty happy with the results (Birchwood Casey kit (stain, tru oil, cold blue). Thanks everyone, I truly appreciate any information. -->

10-30-2010, 09:22 AM	#2
quiknot Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 3	Re: Iver Johnson Hercules Grade 12 gauge side by side Here are some pictures Last edited by quiknot; 10-30-2010 at 09:28 AM..

10-30-2010, 01:21 PM	#3
Jim Hauff Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lehigh Valley, PA Posts: 2,980	Re: Iver Johnson Hercules Grade 12 gauge side by side Nice pictures - you've covered all the bases. Bill G. will be along shortly with the info you seek. He's THE man when it comes to Iver Johnson firearms. Nice shotgun, also. __________________ Jim Hauff ~ H&R Collector In Memory of Bill Goforth and Jim Ritchie

10-31-2010, 12:15 PM	#4
b.goforth Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: houston, tx Posts: 3,174	Re: Iver Johnson Hercules Grade 12 gauge side by side this is probably the earliest hercules grade double i have seen. patent dates were dropped from the markings in the late 1920's. IVER JOHNSON HAMMERLESS (MONO-BLOC)------------------1914-1923 Box lock side by side double barrel; breech sleeve area is solid one piece (Mono-Bloc), dropped forged; hammers can be lowered without snapping them on empty chambers; automatic safety and automatic extractors; double triggers; 12 gague only; Browned Barrels and case hardened receiver; 28 and 30 inch barrels, choked left full and right modified, 32 inch barrels chocked full and full; American Black Walnut butt stock and fore-end, pistol grip checkered no grip cap; hard rubber butt plate; weight with 30 inch barrels 7½ pounds; overall length with 30 inch barrels 46 3/8 inch. VALUE 100%=$600 60%=$300 IVER JOHNSON HAMMERLESS HERCULES GRADE------------1924-1935* Box lock side by side double barrel; each barrel and lug forged as one piece then joined together; 12, 16 & 20 Gauge; Browned barrels and case hardened receiver; American Black Walnut butt stock and fore-end, hand checkered; plain extractor model has slim fore-end and automatic ejector model has beavertail fore-end with D & E fastener; hard rubber butt plate and pistol grip cap; butt stock is 14 inches in length, butt stock drop at comb is 1¾ inches and at heel is 2 ¾ inches; automatic safety; double triggers; overall length with 30 inch barrel 46 3/8 inches; weight 7¾ pounds. Hunting dog etching on the left side of the frame. Some of these double barrel shotguns have been seen with Canadian marking, these were most likely shipped to Canada and then marked as there is no evidence that Iver Johnson’s Arms & Cycle Works ever had a manufacturing factory in Canada. It has been reported that a special run of the Hercules double gun was manufactured for Montgomery Wards & Co. in the 1930’s Marked “WESTERN FIELD MODEL 53”. Exact year undetermined VALUE: 100%=$1100 60%=$525 Add 15% for auto-ejectors model Add 25% for single trigger IVER JOHNSON HAMMERLESS (HAMMER FORGED MODEL)------1936-1941 Same as Hercules Grade except left side of frame marked IVER JOHNSON HAMMER FORGED in two lines and right side of frame marked with company name and address, *Exact year undetermined VALUE: SAME AS HERCULES GRADE because of the shape if the fore-end and markings i am going to guess it was made between 1924 and 1927. bill __________________ Author: Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle Works 1871-1993 H&R Arms Company 1871-1986 (due spring 2010) available from www.gunshowbooks.com website; iverjohnsoncollector.x10hosting.com

10-31-2010, 07:10 PM	#5
quiknot Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 3	Re: Iver Johnson Hercules Grade 12 gauge side by side Thanks Bill, I really appreciate you taking a look.

02-14-2011, 09:08 PM	#6
jbuck Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1	Re: Iver Johnson Hercules Grade 12 gauge side by side Hello Bill, I stumbled upon this forum when searching for Iver Johnson Hercules Grade. I have also inherited an Iver Johnson Hercules Grade 30" with the exact same patent dates, bird engraving, Iver Johnson emblem, double hammer, overall length, drop length, shell ejectors etc as you describe in the 1924-1935 models. Based on the pictures of the other gentleman's posted mine is in very similar condition. The difference of course is the serial number. Mine shows 304 E. Do you have any info based on this serial number. Did the increment throughout production... does a lower number indicate it is from the mid 1920's? Do you know how many were manufactured per year?

03-18-2012, 06:21 PM	#7
thawk Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3	Re: Iver Johnson Hercules Grade 12 gauge side by side I am far from an expert on firearms. I just recently inherited a number of firearms from my father-in-law. Way back in the closet I found a double barrel hammerless Iver Johnson shotgun with the same patent dates, same wording," Iver Johnson firearms and cycle works", but no other markings but the serial number, 29994, on all the parts of the gun. When I found it it was broken down and in a two piece canvass carrying case. I cleaned it up and found that when I close it the safety doesn't keep the front trigger/left side barrel from firing. I took it apart and found that a piece of the safety mechanism, a flat thin piece of metal with two prongs had one of the prongs broken. I assume thats why the safety doesn't work on one side. Any ideas what this part is called and where I can find one?

03-21-2012, 05:13 PM	#8
bobski Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: va., conn., & mo. Posts: 948	Re: Iver Johnson Hercules Grade 12 gauge side by side i have a i.j. manual back in va. ill be there in april and look it up for you.

04-29-2012, 10:59 AM	#9
parsons68 Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 2	Re: Iver Johnson Hercules Grade 12 gauge side by side Hi, I was just passed down an Iver Johnson side x side 12 gauge shotgun. It says it it was made by Ivor Johnson Arms and Cycle works, Canada Ltd-Montreal. Made in Cobourg. It is a Hercules Grade and has the number 1491 on all pieces of the gun when taken apart. It also has the letter W or M on the barrel, opposite the number 1491. Just wondering if anyone knows any history of this shogun??? Would appreciate any knowledge on the gun..... Thanks, Greg

01-08-2013, 04:30 PM	#13
occradave Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 2	Re: Iver Johnson Hercules Grade 12 gauge side by side Yes I'm in receipt of an Iver Johnson 12 guage Hercules that is in very good condition. It was my paternal Grandfathers and I'm planning on giving it to my nephew (my brothers son). I'm trying to find a value to place on it so that he (my nephew) will know weither to just shoot it or keep it as an heirloom. The serial number is 20825 and it has a soft shell cover with it. Last edited by occradave; 01-08-2013 at 04:31 PM..

01-08-2013, 04:34 PM	#14
Anchor Clanker V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Vacaville,California Posts: 196	Re: Iver Johnson Hercules Grade 12 gauge side by side Single barrel or double barrel? And what is a soft shell cover?