H&R's THE AMERICAN DOUBLE ACTION

[45Auto]

Regarding the mid-sized solid frame H&R. "THE AMERICAN DOUBLE ACTION" series of revolvers. With the same basic frame some are in .38 S&W five-shot and others are chambered for the 32 S&W Long with six-shot cylinders.

Some have hex barrels others round. Some of them are marked SAFETY HAMMER in place of AMERICAN and have the spirless hammer. A few of the AMERICAN marked revolvers have two and three digit serial numbers on the left side of the grip frame, under the grips.

How were these revolvers serial numbered? Was it from #1 on up? From when to when was this series made?


Thank you.

Greg

[polishshooter]

A lot of firearms were not serial numbered before the GCA '68 mandated it for all firearms.

MOST major manufacturers were using serial numbers as standard practice long before then, but a surprising number of well known ones didn't.

I learned this just the other day researching my JC Higgins .22 rifle made for Sears in the late '50s by Marlin, that I was given by a relative, that had no serial number, and it turned out Marlin usually DIDN'T put serial numbers on their .22 rifles until 1968, and many other manufacturers didn't either.

I don't know about H&R revolvers though....

[b.goforth]

greg,
all H&R handguns will have a serial number (batch number) usually found as you stated under the grip panel or on the bottom of the butt.

the american double action revolvers take a several chapters in the up coming H&R book. without going into a lot of detail there are two models and several variation of each model. the two model are first 1884-1904 and second model 1905-1942.

first model first varialition 1884-1887 round barrel
first model second variation 1888-1897 octagon barrel
first model third variation 1898-1904 octagon barrel with company name and address on left side of barrel.
serial numbers for the first model are in at least two different series each starting a 01 and going up to 99,999. there are strong possiblities that there are as many serial number series as the first model was manufactured. could be one per year. not enough information has been gather to make any decisions on the number of serial number series yet so it is best just to identify them by variation. all first models a designed for black powder cartridge pressures

the second model 1905-1942 octagon barrel with company name and address and caliber marked on left side of barrel. one serial number series starting at 01 and going to over 700,000. all second models were desighed for smokeless powder cartridge pressures

the safety hammer models were treated by the catalogs as a seperate model even though they were serial numbered in the same series as the regular america double action revolvers. the H&R bulldog (chambered for rimfire cartridges) is treated the same way. both will be found in the first and second models

there is also a larger frame chambered for the 44 webley cartridge that may have a completely different serial number series. as there are no known serial number records available for this model and other pre1940 models an exact serial number record may never be possible.

you are just going to have to wait for the book for a full explaination of the serial numbers and even that will not be considered 100%, only my interturpation of known serial numbered revolvers.
bill

[45Auto]

Thank you Bill. The above was exactly what I was looking for.

I will try to be patient for the day I can buy a copy of your H&R book. With everyting you have to cover it has to be a big job.

[targetback]

It sure looks like I have the Black powder 32. Where can I find ammo for this pistol , Or reload ?

[charlie12]

Hello I just found your forum and I have one of those guns. Thanks for the info on the serial number I took the grip off and it has 149 stamped on the gun.

The only other thing on it is on the top that says The American Double Action. He also has to octagon barrel.

How can I find out how old it is?

Thanks

[oscarmayer]

targetback for old obsolete ammo check old western scrounger . ows.com they may have what you need or will know where to get it. yes that includes BP loads

[b.goforth]

charlie12,
your is a first model see below on how to identify variation. the era is the only date that can be given on these revolver for now.

AMERICAN DOUBLE ACTION FIRST MODEL
(BLACK POWDER MODEL):-------------------------- 1884-1904
32 caliber 6 shot, 38 caliber 5 shot, 44 caliber 5 shot, pull pin cylinder release, barrel length 2½, 4½ & 6 inches nickel finish standard, blue considered rare
Marked on top strap “AMERICAN DOUBLE ACTION”,
first variation will have a round barrel & nickel trigger guard------------1884-1887
second variation will have a octagon barrel & nickel trigger guard------ 1888-1897
third variation will have a octagon barrel , blue trigger guard and company name and address on left side of barrel--------------1898-1904
100%=$225 60%=$95, 1st Variation rarely seen, add 50% premium., for all American Double Actions variations and variants: add 15% premium for blue finish, add 10% premium for 4 ½ “ or 6” barrel, add 5%-10% premium for nickel trigger guard (pre 1898)

bill

[charlie12]

Thanks mine is a 5 shot 38 and has the octagon barrel and nickel trigger guard. I had no idea it was that old. I would like to know who in my family had it, I'm the last one and I have no idea.

[joe2015]

I also have one of these guns, it is all nickle, the serial number is 3903 under grip it has an octagonal barrel2 1/2 inch and that is all the markings it also has the firing pin on the hammer I believe that it is one of the late 1800/s early 1900's guns but I am not sure can you help pinpoint a date for me

[b.goforth]

i will need a picture showing all the markings on top strap and left side of the barrel and then it would be to an era as there are no factory serial number records for this model and several serial number series were used. each going up to 99,999 before starting over again.
bill

[William B]

I found this through a Google search. I have my dad's old revolver from his Border Patrol days in the late 40s and I was looking for info on it. Reading the posts I am not sure which one I have and how old it is. I don't know if he bought it in the 1940s or got it from someone else.

It is an H&R Arms Company .38 S&W CTGE, that is on the left side of the barrel. On the top it says THE AMERICAN DOUBLE ACTION It is nickel plated, 2 1/2 " octagonal barrel. blue trigger guard, 5 shot .38. The serial number on the butt of the gun is 897 17

[b.goforth]

this is an early second model most likely manufactured before 1910.

AMERICAN DOUBLE ACTION SECOND MODEL
(SMOKELESS POWDER) -------------------------------------1905-1941
32 caliber 6 shot, 38 caliber 5 shot, 44 caliber 5 shot, pull pin cylinder release, calibers and barrel lengths are the same as first model, 44 Webley caliber discontinued in 1921, nickel finish, blue optional. Difference between First Model and Second Model is the caliber Markings on the left side of the barrel. After 1930 this model was listed in catalogs as; AMERICAN DOUBLE ACTION No. 60 .32 Caliber 6 shot and AMERICAN DOUBLE ACTION No. 65 .38 Caliber 5 shot
100%=$225 60%= $75 For all American Double Action Second Models add 15% premium for blue finish and 10% for 4 ½” or 6” barrel

bill

[William B]

Thanks Bill from another Bill in Houston. I had no idea it was that old. All I knew was that my dad had it when he was in the Border Patrol in the 40s. Since he passed away 1993, I don't have any way to determine its history. He might have got it from someone else. I have 5 Winchester 38 S&W bullets that were in it, they must be at least at 50 years old.

[jtavner]

I am trying to find out more about a H & R "the american double action" that my grandmother gave to me today. She received it back in 1974 when her great aunt passed away. It does have the round barrel and I did take the grip off to find the number 653 on it. Was this really built between 1884-1887. If any one knows anymore, Please let me know about it. It appears to be in great condition except for some minor rusting on the gun.

Jason

[b.goforth]

that what my research has turned up. not enough room here to give more details. you will have to wait for the H&R bood to be published this summer for more info on this model.
bill

[Arseniy]

That H&R American Double Action Revolver has an octagonal barrel and only one mark - American Double Action - on topstrap.

When it could be made??? Thanks

[b.goforth]

this one is a first model with the rare longer barrel.

AMERICAN DOUBLE ACTION FIRST MODEL
(BLACK POWDER MODEL):--------------------------- 1884-1904
32 caliber 6 shot, 38 caliber 5 shot, 44 caliber 5 shot, pull pin cylinder release, barrel length 2½, 4½ & 6 inches nickel finish standard, blue considered rare. Marked on top strap “AMERICAN DOUBLE ACTION”,
first variation will have a round barrel & nickel trigger guard----------1884-1887
second variation will have a octagon barrel & nickel trigger guard-----1888-1897
third variation will have a octagon barrel , blue trigger guard and company name and address on left side of barrel-------1898-1904
100%=$225 60%=$95, 1st Variation rarely seen, add 50% premium., for all American Double Actions variations and variants: add 15% premium for blue finish, add 10% premium for 4 ½ “ or 6” barrel, add 5%-10% premium for nickel trigger guard (pre 1898)

bill

[pistolero57]

I own three of these old revolvers myself, two in .38 S&W and one in .32 S&W caliber.

I have been able to find current production ammo in both .38 S&W and .32 S&W. Nobody is going to recommend that you fire modern ammo in an antique firearm. But, I have tested my .32 S&W H&R "The American Double Action" with no ill results. So, it can be done. Just make sure that the cylinder lines up and locks into place every time the pistol is cocked. (Test it both in single action and double action.) Look down the barrel (with the thing unloaded!) using a penlight and see how well the cylinder bore lines up with the barrel bore. If they don't line up you'll shave lead off the side of the bullet.

Here are the manufacturers' stock numbers for modern ammo:

Remington .32 S&W - R32SW
Remington .38 S&W - R38SW
Winchester .38 S&W - X38SWP
Magtech .32 S&W - 32SWA
Magtech .38 S&W - 38SWA
Fiocchi .38 S&W - 38SWSHL (Fiocchi calls it ".38 S&W Short")

These aren't exactly "endangered species" cartridges. But, you won't find these on the ammunition shelf at your local Wal-Mart store either. I have had to buy them online.

I have some 1930s vintage Peters .38 S&W cartridges I am willing to sell for $1 apiece (up to 38 pieces) plus $2-$10 shipping (depending on how many and whether I have to use UPS or not) if anybody's interested. I also have some Western (probably 1950s vintage) .38 S&W cartridges I would sell for $1 apiece (up to 32 pieces.)

These are great old revolvers, underrated and underappreciated in my opinion.

[gunman8890]

I have the 3rd varation I think .32 american double action 6 shot octagon barrel blue trigger guard. It also has the company name and address on the left side of barrel Serial number #8145. I paid $200 for it did I waste my money and how much is this gun worth? Thanks for answering my questions.

[45Auto]

Originally Posted by gunman8890

I have the 3rd varation I think .32 american double action 6 shot octagon barrel blue trigger guard. It also has the company name and address on the left side of barrel Serial number #8145. I paid $200 for it did I waste my money and how much is this gun worth? Thanks for answering my questions.

That sounds rather high to me, unless it's in mint condition w/the factory box. The price seems to be going up on these revolvers recently, hang onto it and you may be able to make a profit in a few years.

[Jim K]

Bill Goforth and I disagree on this but, with some caveats, I see no problem in firing modern ammo in most of those old guns. The ammo makers are pretty careful to not exceed the pressures the old guns were designed for. But there are exceptions. Some of the old guns have paper thin cylinder walls, either made that way or worn/rusted/cleaned to the point that firing anything in them would be unsafe. Others are so badly worn, especially at the latch area in top-breaks, that again, firing anything would be hazardous.

Another caveat: most of those guns were made for .32 S&W Short or .38 S&W, but many have no shoulders in the chambers. So the .32's can accept .32 S&W Long, .32 H&R Magnum, or even .327 Federal. Needless to say, those are a big no-no, mainly the last two. Also, some .38's will accept .38 Special, so the same warning applies.

Jim

[bishopm]

I just inherited an H&R Arms company 22 pistol. The barrell is octogan and on the left is H&R Arms company Worchester Mass. U.S.A. Then below that is 22 Rim Fire. On the Top is Young America Doube Action and the number on the bottom of the handle is 395605 body is of nickle and triger is blue. How can I find out how old this is and what it is worth? Also the handle had black engraved Plastic or ?? on both sides. Thanks

[b.goforth]

this is a second model young american double action. there are no known serial number records for this model. i have recorded serial number as high as 500,000 plus for this model. i would guess this is a late 1920's or early 1930's manufacture.

YOUNG AMERICA DOUBLE ACTION SECOND MODEL
SMALL FRAME 22 RIMFIRE CALIBER-------------------------1905-1941
.22 short rimfire 7 shot, pull pin cylinder release Nickel finish, blue optional 2, 4½ & 6 inches barrel lengths, will have caliber and company name & address marked on side of barrel, Top strap will be marked “YOUNG AMERICA DOUBLE ACTION”. After 1930 listed in catalogs as; YOUNG AMERICA No. 70 DOUBLE ACTION
VALUE: 100%=$235 60%=$65
For all Young America Double Action variations and variants add 15% premium for blue finish and 10% premium for 4½” or 6” barrels.

bill

[kacohn]

Here is my American pistol. Was wondering if smokeless powder cartridges can be used with this model.