Problem with a Marlin 60 ???

[todd51]

I purchased a used Marlin 60W a few weeks ago and have been enjoying it. It functions flawlessly and the accuracy is fantastic. But!!!!

Each time I have disassembled it to clean it after a range session I have found slivers of bullet lead and the copper guilding at the lower side (bottom) of the action. I have found none actually in the action.

The first time I found them I had shot only CCI Mini Mag 40gr RN. This last time it was a mix of the CCI's and some Federal 36gr HP. The results in the photo are from approximately 150 rounds fired.

Is this common to have this shaving? I assume not so what do you suppose is causing it. Can't help accuracy to shave lead even though the accuracy is good.

Todd

[JLA]

hrmmm... mine dont do that... maybe an edge on the chamber that needs a slight radius???

[todd51]

Yea, hmmmm is right. Mouth of the chamber looks clean smooth and no evidence of a problem. I'm guessing the feed angle is not as it should be but I am not skilled to dig into it. And we get into the bench time costs. Take the scope away and I got $120.00 in the little Marlin so bench time at the smith would pass the cost of the gun real fast.

This may be why the gun was in the local gun shop for sale, hmmmmm.

Thanks Josh.

Todd

[old semperfi]

i agree on radius,you might also try some other brands of ammo for a solution. old semperfi

[Naybor]

Yeah, it's definitely shaving lead somewhere. Do you know a good gunsmith that could take a look at it?

Question: Do you get that much lead every time you clean, or maybe it could have accumulated after years of use? To be honest, I've had my Model 60 for 25 years and have never taken it off the stock for cleaning. I use a spray can of WD-40 in the action using Q-Tips every month or two, and a Bore Snake to clean the bore maybe once a month. Maybe I have shavings too??

The Marlin Model 60 is about the most accurate rifle you can get for the money spent.
Hopefully, you will get it figured out and have it for many years. If something works, keep it.

[todd51]

Thanks fellows. I have only had this rifle for a few weeks. When I first got it I disassembled it and gave it a good cleaning but really it was not dirty. I took it to the range a total of four times now and cleaned it twice. There was no evidence of any shaving when I first took it down but the two cleanings since have shown evidence of the shavings. I have only shot Federal 36gr HP which it didn't like and then CCI Mini Mag 40gr. which it does like. Got lots of other ammo so will follow you suggestion and try some different stuff. I have put maybe 400 rounds through it total. The second cleaning showed about have as much shavings as this last time did. It is not shaving every round or I think there would be more debris. If I had not taken the stock off I would not know that these shavings were present as they don't show till the stock is removed.

Todd

[JLA]

Looks like you tend to favor plated ammo. give some good ol lubaloy lead a try. My wifes marlin loves federal automatch

[Big Shrek]

Take a Q-tip and run it around the chamber...

Y'know...it might also pay off to remove the mag tube and clean the living daylights outta it.

And it could be a spring issue...

There are a couple other things I can think of, but they mostly occur with pre-1994 rifles...
what year is yours?? First two serial numbers minus 25 tell you the year.

[todd51]

Shrek, it is a '96 and the chamber, bore & mag tube are spotless.

Ok, next time out will use some none plated stuff.

[wyoredot]

Seems with that many rounds and some plating debris that possibly the rounds aren't that consistently true.. Never seen that with my 60.

[Helix_FR]

Todd, this is kinda hard to check bc its hard to see but the feed angle is too low coming off the lifter spring. It may be bent. I had a range gun that did something similar.

[johnlives4christ]

im not an expert by any means but it crossed my mind that perhaps the inner magazine tube is too sharp. when you reinsert the inner tube, it could be shaving lead off the bullets.

[gunplumber]

The most common cause for this I have seen is the bottom of the feed ramp wearing (the bottom of the ramp acts as the lifter/carrier stop). When it sees enough wear, the lifter will come up too high causing the round to try to feed at a higher than normal angle thus causing the cham mouth to shave the bullet. If you have the old style ramp and lifter (which is not made anymore) you will have to purchase the new style ramp, carrier and spring and also be told that a new bolt will have to be purchased to fit the new ramp. If you are the handy fixer type person, just bevel the sq side of the new feed ramp to match the other side and a new bolt is not needed. Don't tell anyone I said that.................

[johnlives4christ]

i'll be remembering that tip

[todd51]

Thanks all for the help. This gun is a '96 mfg. and shows very little use or wear so from what you are saying it may be something bent rather than worn but I am going to take a good look at the relationship of the parts and see if I can figure out what is going on. If I can't I will see if the local smith can figure it out. Knowing my limited skills I would say a trip to the smith is probably where I will be going. Thanks again. I love this little gun and even with the shaving it is very very accurate so want to get it in proper operating condition.

Todd

[gunplumber]

I didn't mean to imply that anything was bent; it's hard to bend the lifter/carrier as it is about the beefiest part of the feed system. The feed ramp is some sort of cast material that is not too sturdy. Most are also a 2pc affair that sometimes seperate (which also causes bad feeding). the lifter will bump upwards on the bottom of the ramp and cause a groove to be worn in the bottom of the ramp then the lifter will come up stopping too high. If you want a different fix, silver solder the top of the carrier where it meets the ramp and cut it down a bit at a time till you get the lifter stopping at the right angle. This works but will take more time than I will allot the fix. I just get new parts and fit.

[todd51]

Thanks gunplumber, I just disassembled the gun to see if I could detect any thing wrong (don't really have enough knowledge to make that decision, ha). The feed ramp is of the one piece type. I detect no groove worn on the bottom of the ramp where the lifter hits. There isn't any signs of wear any where in there and the gun shows little signs of use. I ran some dummy rounds through it and they didn't hang any where. I didn't want to run live rounds through as I was in the basement. I live in town and can't go out side to run the live ones through. Next time at the range I will cycle several through with out firing to see if any thing shows.

Got to go to jury duty for the next couple weeks and then have have some surgery on my leg so range time may be awhile but I do thank you all for the assistance. Will let you know what happens the next time out.

Todd

[Bobitis]

I have 2 Ruger MKIIIs that used to shave off a bit of the nose.
The feed ramp has a very sharp edge on it, and if the rounds aren't canted just right, the nose will catch the edge every time.

I fixed it by polishing up the magazines with a couple different dremmel stones (using my fingers). This allowed the rounds to 'nose up' in the magazines and avoid the sharp edge.

I realize the two are completely different in nature. My point is, it was a feeding problem combined with the edge on the ramp. I just tried to make everything as smooth as possible in the feeding dept.

[gunplumber]

Bobitis has a point about the chamber mouth: it never hurts to champher and smoothe them a bit. I use a demel bit in a vari speed drill with an extension I made just for these situations. I have also had to bevel extractors, stone bolt faces, polish ramps (never do it to a 60), change recoil springs (if bent) and the list goes on. I might also mention that the Fed ammo has a rather abrupt shoulder; the pic looks like it is catching in this area. You might try a more rounded pill like the Lightning. I would stay away from the hotter stuff or get ready to replace your buffer........

[JLA]

I personally believe its the chamber mouth coupled with the plated ammo. the plating on plated .22LR ammo makes them a tad thicker...

[todd51]

I apologize for not getting back to you fellows. I do appreciate the assistance. I have been sitting in the jury pool this week (boring) and didn't have time to answer. I don't have time now either to get to the range so haven't been able to try other ammo.

Here are some photos of the action and the breech mouth. The only thing that jumps out to me is some flaking of the plating on the feed throat. It is on the rear and not near the ramp. I don't see any thing wrong with the breech but don't have another to compare. Since the feed throat is flaking off I figured I would order a new one (around $10.00). Is there any thing else you would suggest I get since I will have the action apart and will have to pay shipping on that feed throat?

Todd

[Jim K]

It looks like the cartridge is entering the chamber at too high an angle so the bottom of the chamber edge is shaving those moon shaped pieces of lead. To find out, try this, in a safe place and WITH CARE!!!!

Load three rounds into the magazine. Open the bolt and with a marker, mark the top of the round in the carrier. Let the bolt go closed, but DO NOT fire the round. Extract the unfired round, and do the same with the other two. Now, examine the unfired rounds. I think you will see the lead on the top of the bullet on the same side as your mark is scuffed where it hit the top of the chamber, and that there is lead shaved from the bullet just at the mouth of the case on the bottom side, opposite to your mark.

That doesn't solve the problem, but it will give us a clue as to what is happening.

Jim

[todd51]

Thanks Jim.

I was going to cycle some rounds through with out firing but didn't even think of your suggestion to mark them so I would know if it was the bottom of the top of the cartridge that was getting shaved. I will try your suggestion but it will be probably Sunday before I get a chance to go to the range. I just don't want to do it in the basement. Would probably work ok down there but safety first so will just wait so I am not embarrassed. Will use your suggestion with the ammo I have been using and also with some other stuff I have on hand to see if by chance it is ammo related also.

[Big Shrek]

I see a potential cause of this problem.

You notice in the first pic the square lug under the barrel looks a wee bit cockeyed?
I'd say micrometer it, but it really looks like it's off a few degrees.


It might just be the angle it's being held, or the angle of the camera, but it looks a bit off...

It's where the bullets feed into the action from the mag tube...if that's off, it's a MFR goof.

Worth checking real closely...


Second thing...who the heck painted the action gold??

Is that real gold plating??

[todd51]

Shrek, It is not really gold. It is silver like most of all the others. It just appears gold do to the lighting and my amateur photo work. I'll measure that lug and hope that is not the culprit.

Jim, I ran five CCI Mini Mag 40 gr. RN (my normal ammo for this rifle) and five Federal 36 gr. HP marked as you suggested for orientation and they all came out clean with not a mark or indication of even an attempt to shave lead. I then cycled 14 of each through the gun as fast as I could and again not a mark of any thing wrong. That amounted to 38 rounds cycled through and nothing wrong was indicated.

I will live fire those rounds and some other ammo the next chance I get to go to the range and see what happens.

That feed throat is flaking some plating so think I will go ahead and order a new one thinking maybe one of those flakes may have gotten someplace it shouldn't have.

Again thanks for all the help.